C182 traits
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C182 traits
A question for any of you folk that have logged hours in the 182.
Are there any peculiar behaviour characteristics or situations to be aware of when flying this aircraft?
I have been told to be wary of running out of elevator when landing and have read about ensuring the mixture is leaned properly when applying carb heat. Can you think of anything else that may keep me out of trouble?
Thanks for your time.
Are there any peculiar behaviour characteristics or situations to be aware of when flying this aircraft?
I have been told to be wary of running out of elevator when landing and have read about ensuring the mixture is leaned properly when applying carb heat. Can you think of anything else that may keep me out of trouble?
Thanks for your time.
Seasonally Adjusted
Did a fair amount of time on the 182RG, don't know how it differs from the fixed gear model but I always found them easier to land with only two stages of flap.
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cjam
Ignore all the aero club bar myth and legend in lunchbox gurus, find the manufacturers POH and learn to operate it from their recommendations, think through the aerodynamics and physics of the thing ask questions of someone who knows and then go on from there.
Oh and think about the effect of carrying excess power into the flare and what will happen when and how you cut it.
Almost every body I have seen lands too fast on the premise of that couple of extra knots for insurance, until the light goes on.
think through the aerodynamics and physics of the thing
There is ALL the elevator authority, and some, that you need, if you fly the right profile and speeds.
If you run out of trim and elevator authority, it can only mean ONE thing, you are way out of profile, with nowhere left to go except where Messrs Newton and Wind decide they are going to take you.
In other words "out of control".
The "folks do not try this at home" party tricks should be given the same respect as we give the clown who performs them.
This aircraft is the most forgiving of any of the singles you will likely ever fly, except perhaps the C208, and with the power to get you out of those tight places, but like ANY aircraft if you ask it to do anything it wasn't designed for, or really cant do, then it will bite you hard, it just takes a little more provoking than most.
Enjoy.
Ignore all the aero club bar myth and legend in lunchbox gurus, find the manufacturers POH and learn to operate it from their recommendations, think through the aerodynamics and physics of the thing ask questions of someone who knows and then go on from there.
Oh and think about the effect of carrying excess power into the flare and what will happen when and how you cut it.
Almost every body I have seen lands too fast on the premise of that couple of extra knots for insurance, until the light goes on.
think through the aerodynamics and physics of the thingThere is ALL the elevator authority, and some, that you need, if you fly the right profile and speeds.
If you run out of trim and elevator authority, it can only mean ONE thing, you are way out of profile, with nowhere left to go except where Messrs Newton and Wind decide they are going to take you.
In other words "out of control".The "folks do not try this at home" party tricks should be given the same respect as we give the clown who performs them.
This aircraft is the most forgiving of any of the singles you will likely ever fly, except perhaps the C208, and with the power to get you out of those tight places, but like ANY aircraft if you ask it to do anything it wasn't designed for, or really cant do, then it will bite you hard, it just takes a little more provoking than most.
Enjoy.
Last edited by gaunty; 10th Sep 2002 at 08:24.
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Great aeroplane,side-sliping with flap will cause rubbing between brackets on flap and underside of wing which leads to splits forming. drop the flaps and have a look.chances are that if it has been used for for mustering that there are already gaps there.Your engineers would drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop it travelling any further.does not look pretty,but thats the way it is.
Apart from that,you can load the thing to kingdom come and land it anywhere (within reason).
But take our friends advice and read the manual.it's not just about hours,but how well you know you machine and it's limits,and of course your own.
Enjoy
Apart from that,you can load the thing to kingdom come and land it anywhere (within reason).
But take our friends advice and read the manual.it's not just about hours,but how well you know you machine and it's limits,and of course your own.
Enjoy
Towering Q,
Question for you......
The way your question read, it sounds as if you always landed with two stapes of flap. Therefore my question is:
Why do aircraft have flaps? Think only practically?
A landing that does not use ALL the flap available is a waste! We practice flapless landings and half flap landings during training for ONE reason, and ONE only. BECAUSE THE FLAP MIGHT FAIL ON US, not because it is EASIER. If it were designed so that the aircraft was easier to land with, as you say two stages, then the other stage is used for what????
Some food for thought.
SU/C
Question for you......
The way your question read, it sounds as if you always landed with two stapes of flap. Therefore my question is:
Why do aircraft have flaps? Think only practically?
A landing that does not use ALL the flap available is a waste! We practice flapless landings and half flap landings during training for ONE reason, and ONE only. BECAUSE THE FLAP MIGHT FAIL ON US, not because it is EASIER. If it were designed so that the aircraft was easier to land with, as you say two stages, then the other stage is used for what????
Some food for thought.
SU/C
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There was an excellent thread on D&G on C206 tips about 6 months back; try seaching for that as there were several areas which applied to most big Cessna singles. (the originator was said to be producing a 'How To' book of operator tips - not seen anything further to date....)
Gaunty, you sound a little peevish - someone been pulling your chain
...... or is it age catching up to you - I hear that birthday wishes are in order, have a good one.
Going back to counting my pennies now; trying to find a nice first twin to buy.......
Gaunty, you sound a little peevish - someone been pulling your chain
...... or is it age catching up to you - I hear that birthday wishes are in order, have a good one. Going back to counting my pennies now; trying to find a nice first twin to buy.......
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SU/G,
It's quite a common (authorised) practice to land without full flap on a number of aircraft! The flap is there to change the approach and landing characteristics to suit the conditions (even in normal operations). Sometimes the conditions don't necessarily warrant the use of full landing flap... Having said that, I don't know what the POH says with respect to the C182, but I know a number of operators that don't necessarily use F40 all the time.
Similar with the takeoff flap!
Lancer
It's quite a common (authorised) practice to land without full flap on a number of aircraft! The flap is there to change the approach and landing characteristics to suit the conditions (even in normal operations). Sometimes the conditions don't necessarily warrant the use of full landing flap... Having said that, I don't know what the POH says with respect to the C182, but I know a number of operators that don't necessarily use F40 all the time.
Similar with the takeoff flap!
Lancer
Lancer,
Agreed, if operationally required. Fair enough, I would be doing the same. Though it would then only be easier to land in certain conditions when full might not be required, but thats not all the time.
SU/C
Agreed, if operationally required. Fair enough, I would be doing the same. Though it would then only be easier to land in certain conditions when full might not be required, but thats not all the time.
SU/C
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If you have the runway available, land with two stages of flap.............they do land easier, and I think you will find in the POH somewhere that it is recomended to land with as little flap as practicle in a crosswind. Also, as with most bigger Cessnas, dribble the power off as you land, it will be a better landing for it.
As Guanty states, read the POH and all will be well. They are a good lil old bus to burn around in and are very forgiving in the learning stage. but as stated, think about the aerody and stuff and apply it as the manufacturer says and you wont go to far wrong.
As Guanty states, read the POH and all will be well. They are a good lil old bus to burn around in and are very forgiving in the learning stage. but as stated, think about the aerody and stuff and apply it as the manufacturer says and you wont go to far wrong.
Seasonally Adjusted
SU/C
I have always been blessed with plenty more room than I need when reuniting C182 with terra firma. On the odd occasion when things have been a little tight, and after consulting the P charts of course
, full flap has definately been warranted. Attempting a short field landing without 40 degrees of 'barn door' hanging out would be difficult.
Hmmmm, so they don't leave snail trails?
I have always been blessed with plenty more room than I need when reuniting C182 with terra firma. On the odd occasion when things have been a little tight, and after consulting the P charts of course
, full flap has definately been warranted. Attempting a short field landing without 40 degrees of 'barn door' hanging out would be difficult.
Why do aircraft have flaps?
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You might find the following link useful:
http://data.aopa2.org/asf/publications/highlights.cfm
AOPA america have produced these ( IMHO ) excellent publications on handling the Bonanza, C182, C172 and Piper singles..
They include common problems and handling characteristics..
The whole site ( AOPA America Air Safety Foundation ) has some excellent articles on board, the main page can be found at:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/
Cheers
http://data.aopa2.org/asf/publications/highlights.cfm
AOPA america have produced these ( IMHO ) excellent publications on handling the Bonanza, C182, C172 and Piper singles..
They include common problems and handling characteristics..
The whole site ( AOPA America Air Safety Foundation ) has some excellent articles on board, the main page can be found at:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/
Cheers
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Jamair
Thanks for your thoughts and yes I was feeling a bit peevish, sorry.
Towering Q
I take your point about the use or not of full flap on long strips.
Might I suggest that getting into the "habit" of not using full flap can have the same untintended consequences as met the skipper of QF1, so we need to be careful about that.
A word for those who spend their lives in and out of capital city secondaries and little time in the "country"
Dont get lazy.
E.G.
I recall getting a call from a hirer of a near brand spanking new C210 calling me from Newman with a concern about the aircrafts take off performance at Newman. For those who don't know the strip it is Elev. 1724' and 2072m.
He had rejected a GW TO just before he rang me "because he didn't think the aircraft was accelerating as fast as he was expecting, it was taking a long time and distance and he wasn't certain it would fly off in the remaining distance".
First "smart move".
My first question: Was the engine developing the maximum power available.?
Answer: Well I had full RPM and full throttle and FF in the TO arc.
Question the 2nd: What was the TO MAP.
Answer: I dont know exactly I wasn't checking that ???
I know the answer but cjam, heres a little test for you. How do you know whether you are getting what you paid for in engine performance.
Question the 3rd: Have you done a "P" chart calc.
Answer: NO I thought the strip being big enough for F28s it would be OK. It is longer than what I have been used to at Jandakot.
My comment was, it will almost certainly be, but go and do the calc for the ambients (circa 45C) and Elev 1724 and then for 20C and SL. and ring me back
He does and the light is now shining brightly, ??? except he is not sure how he can monitor the distance run against that required on TO.
Question the 4th: Why did God invent runway lights and markers??
After checking that he was getting the power (didn't need a run up just part of the routine TO checks, there's a clue cjam,counting the runway lights, away he went with much more confidence and a happy trip through the rest off the NW.
And he brought me a back a beautiful Barra..
Thanks for your thoughts and yes I was feeling a bit peevish, sorry.
Towering Q
I take your point about the use or not of full flap on long strips.
Might I suggest that getting into the "habit" of not using full flap can have the same untintended consequences as met the skipper of QF1, so we need to be careful about that.
A word for those who spend their lives in and out of capital city secondaries and little time in the "country"
Dont get lazy.
E.G.
I recall getting a call from a hirer of a near brand spanking new C210 calling me from Newman with a concern about the aircrafts take off performance at Newman. For those who don't know the strip it is Elev. 1724' and 2072m.
He had rejected a GW TO just before he rang me "because he didn't think the aircraft was accelerating as fast as he was expecting, it was taking a long time and distance and he wasn't certain it would fly off in the remaining distance".
First "smart move".
My first question: Was the engine developing the maximum power available.?
Answer: Well I had full RPM and full throttle and FF in the TO arc.
Question the 2nd: What was the TO MAP.
Answer: I dont know exactly I wasn't checking that ???
I know the answer but cjam, heres a little test for you. How do you know whether you are getting what you paid for in engine performance.
Question the 3rd: Have you done a "P" chart calc.
Answer: NO I thought the strip being big enough for F28s it would be OK. It is longer than what I have been used to at Jandakot.
My comment was, it will almost certainly be, but go and do the calc for the ambients (circa 45C) and Elev 1724 and then for 20C and SL. and ring me back
He does and the light is now shining brightly, ??? except he is not sure how he can monitor the distance run against that required on TO.
Question the 4th: Why did God invent runway lights and markers??
After checking that he was getting the power (didn't need a run up just part of the routine TO checks, there's a clue cjam,counting the runway lights, away he went with much more confidence and a happy trip through the rest off the NW.
And he brought me a back a beautiful Barra..
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You will Enjoy flying the C-182 Cjam.
the simple rule I use for landing them is No load No flaps (1 pob half fuel or less) Half a load half flaps 20 degrees or so, fully loaded full flaps, works for me every time.
An extra half turn of the trim wheel on finals to help with the control forces in the flare is another thing I recommend for a smooth landing. Ive landed 182's with 6 pob after aborted parachute sorties with full flap with no problem at all, many inexperienced or inattentive pilots have smacked 182's onto the runway nosewheel first and done some damage - this is mostly due to the fact the nose wheel oleo fully extends in flight and sits 6 inches or more below the level of the mains the newer post 1972 model 182's nose wheel extends less but can still be a problem.
the simple rule I use for landing them is No load No flaps (1 pob half fuel or less) Half a load half flaps 20 degrees or so, fully loaded full flaps, works for me every time.
An extra half turn of the trim wheel on finals to help with the control forces in the flare is another thing I recommend for a smooth landing. Ive landed 182's with 6 pob after aborted parachute sorties with full flap with no problem at all, many inexperienced or inattentive pilots have smacked 182's onto the runway nosewheel first and done some damage - this is mostly due to the fact the nose wheel oleo fully extends in flight and sits 6 inches or more below the level of the mains the newer post 1972 model 182's nose wheel extends less but can still be a problem.
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182 is a real pussy cat - when you keep it on profile. Keep it at the right speed, not too high not too low, full flap (don't p around with partial stuff) and it lands very easily. (Just pure Cessna)Maybe a bit easier still with less than full tanks and someone in the back.
Come in too fast, too slow, too high, too low, (or all of the above) and it gets a bit more challenging. It will run out of elevator and hit the ground like a brick or float on and on (believe me, I've tried all combinations!). Above all, keep it off the nosewheel as long as poss. They can be a bit less benign if you try that one first. Crosswind landings are best accomplished with the side slipping technique (I find) and I still use full flap - that might be not be universally agreed though, again off the nosewheel and the brakes until you are sure you have it sorted out. Book says side-slipping with minimum flap for the field length concerned. (I really cannot understand all this use partial flap on Cessnas for landing, they land much better using all of it.)
Really a lovely aircraft and a real pleasure to fly when you get the hang. Decent amont of power, carries a reasonable load, climbs OK, reasonable range - does most things quite well. Very benign stall - when you can get it to.
Read the book - it really works
(Now would that be the AFM or the manufacturers FM or what?)
Come in too fast, too slow, too high, too low, (or all of the above) and it gets a bit more challenging. It will run out of elevator and hit the ground like a brick or float on and on (believe me, I've tried all combinations!). Above all, keep it off the nosewheel as long as poss. They can be a bit less benign if you try that one first. Crosswind landings are best accomplished with the side slipping technique (I find) and I still use full flap - that might be not be universally agreed though, again off the nosewheel and the brakes until you are sure you have it sorted out. Book says side-slipping with minimum flap for the field length concerned. (I really cannot understand all this use partial flap on Cessnas for landing, they land much better using all of it.)
Really a lovely aircraft and a real pleasure to fly when you get the hang. Decent amont of power, carries a reasonable load, climbs OK, reasonable range - does most things quite well. Very benign stall - when you can get it to.
Read the book - it really works
(Now would that be the AFM or the manufacturers FM or what?)
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I never liked the idea of winding in any more back trim on the flare, the forward force required in a go round when retracting flaps is hard enough without trying to overcome that extra back trim. On a go round dont retract all the flap at once, a stage at a time and retrim.
On a short field landing as soon as the wheels touch flaps to zero.
On a short field landing as soon as the wheels touch flaps to zero.
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Hey Gaunty, I note the ambiant MAP and if I am not developing within two inches of that once I have gone through to full throttle I will abort. I have never had to do it but thats my plan. Is that what you were driving at?
There are a lot of different opinions about landing 182's aren't there, some of them quite conflicting, guess I'll just stick to the book. Thanks for your opinions and let me know if thats what you meant with regard to engine performance, cheers.
There are a lot of different opinions about landing 182's aren't there, some of them quite conflicting, guess I'll just stick to the book. Thanks for your opinions and let me know if thats what you meant with regard to engine performance, cheers.
