Navajo info

[CAPTAIN TUNER]

Bottom line ladies.....

Everyone on any aircraft should RTFM.

Students should be made to do it at some time before they go solo. Simple as that.

That's what the exam is all about.

DOWNWIND is obviously not a student and should know better. Somebody mentioned previously that he shouldn't have put every question on there straight out of the exam. Thirst for knowledge is a good thing but the whole exam 'really'. As Shaablamm said, it screams of lazyness.

R.T.F.M

[Mainframe]

Downwind, Hi, yeah, endorsements are a bit tough, expecting you to read all of the available manuals etc.

Anyway, when you get through that and everyone gives you the answers, just post the weight and balance exam and the flight planning/performance exam, we'll have a go at that too, for you.

Then we'll draw straws to see who'll do the flying sequences for you and in no time you should have your command on PA31.

Really mate, I conduct multi endorsements and most take it seriously, study the manuals, go and sit in aircraft with the manuals, go and get an engineer or instructor to show you something you don't understand or can't find.

If you've already knocked over CPL and/or ATPL exams, the endorsement written will take you between 2 to 5 hours to sit and complete.

As some have already suggested, it's not a matter of just getting the answers to write down in the exam, it's really meant to get you exposed to what's in the manuals, bit old fashioned, I agree, but it may help you one day in an emergency, the only real test that you don't often get to sit but it is the one you must pass or else.

Or you can wait a year or so when CASA eliminates seperate type endorsements and you just do a check ride on the basis of holding an initial multi engine rating.

[airbrake42]

I have a DG course coming up, correspondence, would you guys mind answering some(all) of the questions for me??

LAZY!

[J0N0]

Downwind
Come on mate you should be able to find some of that stuff in the manual.
The one I used to fly climb power was 36' 2400rpm 30 GPH. (Think from memory the manual calls for a higher climb MP more like 40' perhaps.)
Cruise power was 31' 2200rpm 20GPH
Both those fuel flows were as I recall fairly conservative. They found a burnt valve once and it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to up the fuel flow. The POH will give a Peak EGT + Something.
The mains held 415L usuable and the Aux 294L usuable. This will of course vary so check your particular machine.
More that 4 vortex generators missing you have to revert to the normal figures.
If you have a full load of Pax cram as much crap in the nose as you can and watch the rear COG. They get very pitchy with a rear COG (so I've been told) Very heavy to steer on the ground but a nice stable a/c to fly.
Have another go at the manual and if you get stuck with something ask again.
Not sure if Avtraitor was going for a windup or not but I'm fairly sure the prop will feather if oil pressure is lost.
One more thing, run the power up slowly with feet on the brakes(strip conditions permiting) through to about 30' then pause briefly, by then the Turbo will have kicked in. If you push the power straight up watch out for the huge surge as the govenors try and keep up!!

[Dale Harris]

Hey Avtraitor............Dale Harris alias I Fly???? Good thing you aren't playing Who wants to be a millionaire, isn't it? No alias, I don't need to hide behind one. Bzzzzt, you lose........ BTW If you had actually read the manual, you would know nearly all the answers are there.

[Willie Nelson]

You call people lazy or stupid for doing so and that's when you get students belting off to the training area without the maximum amount of knowledge they could have under their belts

WHAT----A-----LOAD-----OF-----CRAP!


To say that a student pilot or any other pilot, for that matter may "belt off to the taining area without the maximum amount of knowledge under their belt" for fear of being ridiculed at asking questions is an insult to your fellow aviator.

There is no place, regardless of aptitude or work ethic for someone to get in a plane, whether it be a C152 or a 744 without knowing how the aircraft systems operate, at least to the extent that the given system is explained in the POH.

In most light aircraft there is little more than a couple of paragraphs or pages on each system, its not that hard.

You should and must ask questions, you should and must also beforehand RTFM simply because when being interviewed by CASA as to why everything went pear shaped, if your reference to aircraft technical information is your mate LUCKY THE PILOT that "told you so" on PPRUNE you will not only have blood on your hands, you will, and should have you licence cancelled.

SOME (but not many) of the questions that were asked are NOT in the manual and if ever in doubt, or you just wish to expand your knowledge, you should talk to your instructor, chief pilot, engineer, etc at the very least you should talk to a pilot with time on type, who's reputation and experience you can vouch for. Anything less is to rely on hearsay.

I do not mean to suggest that anyone on PPRUNE would intentionally derail your prefered method of learning. Some may well have misguided intentions. For example with regard to the PA-31 and PA-31-350 one has couter-rotating propellers the other has a critical engine....as to which one you will have to look that up (yes it does tell you in the manual) if you rely on what you read here you may well get inacurate information from someone who has flown one but not the other.

Downwind,

I'm sorry mate, but you have obviously picked up the manual flicked through a couple of pages, yawned a few times and figured it was easier to source what you were after on PPRUNE.

If you are lucky enough to be in a position to be flying a PA-31 it will no doubt be in some sort of professional capacity, treat it as such, you are not a cook in a kitchen pondering the quantity of raspberry coulis required to adaquetly decorate your torte.

Your passengers will be expecting that you have a thorough knowledge of not only the answers to the questions on the standard CASA questionnaire, but the rest of the manual.

Don't dissapoint them

Willie.


There is nothing quite as useless as a meaningless maxim

[avtraitor]

Fale Harris

Why dont you start screaming " he started it" I mean really, Look at my previous posts, do any of them say it's not imperative to read the manual?????????

Of course it is, back to my original point which you seem to have an inability to respond to, Why not give the guy a hand instead of ridiculing him?

If you really feel the need to tell him that he hasn't spent adequate time reading the POH than do so, but dont get on your high horse as if you never needed to ask for help in your life.

Hey Wille

Just got 4 points for you mate

You say read the manual,

- Maybe you should have read the previous posts instead of coming in half way through. You would have seen I already made the point to take what is written on PPrune with a grain of salt.

- I dont beleive I E-V-E-R said that it's not imperative to read the manual

- The point you are making has been made about 10 times on this topic already, give it a rest.

- you'd better stick to singing because I can garantee you there are students out there who dont know all the answers (thats why they're called students) and it's not an insult to them. What IS an insult is when a student pay's someone 30 - 40 odd grand and the instructors attitude is " GO read the manual" If a student does approach you with a question I'm not saying you should answer it for them but lose the attitude buddy, after all they are the customer.

[Blue Sky Baron]

Someone is missing the point here.

It seems that there is a really big point being missed here.

I am all for the "student" here wanting to find out as much about the aircraft they are being endorsed in and PPRuNe is the place to find those details that may not be published in the manuals, and to help you enhance your already gained knowledge, but surely the "Instructor" here has not done his/her job very well as the "student" feels that they do not know the aircraft well enough or is too afraid to ask - WHAT ARE YOU PAYING THEM FOR!!

If you are being endorsed and do not feel that you know all the answers that you should know, find out from those who you have paid to endorse you.

Despite all the bickering here I feel sure that all the "good" advice given here was given in good faith, AviTRAITOR excepted.

The following is what I practice and preach.


Pilot judgement will always be a factor in aviation and is critical in impending or actual emergency operations. Pilot judgement can be improved with continuing aviation education, proficiency flying, and experience. Experience, be it ours or learned from other pilots,leads to knowledge and knowledge leads to safer flying.

BSB

[C.A.]

Boys Boys Boys,

Settle! When are pilots going to realise that we are all in this together! Dont bitch and scratch like pussies.

Thats a little harsh but you all know what i mean.

After all is said and done though, i did my paper a few weeks ago and found all answers! If anyone would like to borrow it and they are in Melbourne, or can get it via other means then you are more than welcome to it! Although i will need it back eventually. Just PM me your details.

See guys its that easy. Remember that the pilot that you give crap to, may save your arse one day or get you a bloody good job.

CA

[Willie Nelson]

Av mate,

In response to your points:

1. Not all of my whinging was directed at you, simply at what I believe to be an absurd statement that you made.

2. I know you did not state "thou shalt not read the manual" however, I feel your helpful intentions end up giving people like downwind and students an impression, whether stated or otherwise that if they can't be bothered they can lean on unreliable information to "see them through" to a point when they are on their own and they might eventually pick up some more details off their own back.

3. As to the point already being made; true, some people never learn.

4. My instructor was aspiring to leave G.A. and the class room A.S.A.P. he unfortunatley, like some instructors (I like to think not many) was jaded and bored with the lightie's. I did soon realise, as with a university education (which I do not have) I was going to have to learn the theory of my lessons and to brief myslef, as he was not going to spoon feed me or for that matter have much to do with me until we were in the plane. He was a slack instructor and that serves no benefit to anybody, however I learnt the valuable education of independent and self resourced learning.

Sorry if I was rude.

I shall leave it alone, please accept my apology.

There is nothing quite as useless as a meaningless maxim

[Tempo]

I know we are getting off the subject here but thats an interesting point you raised Willie regarding self study etc. I found when instructing that during the latter stages of a students training, the keen and organised student usually had their s&%t together and required very little assistance on the ground. The instructor went from a teacher to more of a 'point in the right direction' type person (and I am not saying that this is an excuse to be slack-rather put the responsibility of learning and research on the student-i.e real world). With regards to Downwind, sure its great that he is asking questions etc, but really, if he fit into the category that I mentioned above (and I assume that he has a CPL and initial multi), then 99% of the posted questions from the engineering exam would be answered .This topic would simply be there to answer those few questions that seem to stump all of us from time to time.

[Dale Harris]

Avtraitor, (See, I can spell your name correctly), had you taken a little notice you would have seen that in none of my posts have I accused you of saying "Don't read the manual". I also don't see anywhere here where anyone is using the "He started it" argument. The points made by the other posters here are valid, and it would seem you are in the minority. How about you get off your high horse, and face the fact that in the format above, most professional pilots do not feel it is appropriate to do the engineering exam FOR an intending pilot, but rather expect them to do as much of it as possible themselves. As someone else pointed out, there probably would have been a better response to just the couple of questions that don't appear in the published information.

However, you obviously fail to get the point of this thread, since as you need to descend to namecalling, you have already lost...............

[TwinNDB]

Here here Dale.

Avtraitor, None of us were ever saying that a person should never ask questions, how else do you ever gain exta knowledge??? What we were objecting to was the fact that it seemed the whole (or a large portion) of the exam had been posted. Had only three or four questions been posted then I am sure answers would have been forthcoming.

There are some questions that will NEVER be found in the manual but require just a bit of thinking and drawing on knowledge from previous exams, conversations etc. Such as; "How many brake applications would be expected from a fully pressurized brake accumulator?" That depends on the level of braking. ie: Three or so full, but steady applications of the brakes will always be more benficial than four or five short sharp applications.

No one will ever deny help or answers to questions when a person appears to be genuinely stuck but when the fuel systems, just to name one, are fully described in the manual then I'm afraid it would appear to most that the person is just being lazy. Sure it can seem like a hassle doing one of the exams, especially as the aircraft get more and more complicated, but that is also when you need the knowledge the most. You might not remember all of the questions that you are asked in the exam, but one of the purposes of it is not just to get you to answer questions but to become familiar with where to LOOK for answers when you come across a problem yourself.

Twin

[Mainframe]

Twin NDB, I think the Shrike and the Aerostar are the only GA twins that have pressurised power brakes.

The answer to how many brake applications (assuming Hyd failure) from a fully charged accumulator is ONE, so you need to think what you're going to blow the accumulator charge on, i.e., one shot of the brakes, or flaps, or even whether you want nosewheel steering. These can be your options and need to be considered, coz you've got to decide which facility is most needed.
A long runway won't need flaps or brakes, so you've got steering till you use up the pressure. A short runway is a problem, you need flaps and brakes. Fortunately the gear has a back up emergency system that's really good.

[yowie]

Isnt the idea of the endorsement exam(engineering exam)to not only exhibit a working knowledge of the beast you are about to be let lose in,but to also be able to find,interpret and implement the information as given by the manufacturer if something not covered in the endorsment process arises(everyday????)and the PIC has to determine the most safe and appropriate course of action to deal with the situation,not only with what they have learnt from the the endorsement,but with the infomation that available at hand onboard the aircraft?
Just my thought

[ArnhemDog]

Ooops the wine kicked in!

As per D/D read the fricken POH and stop blu****en. You can't expect tl be spoon fed!

[[email protected]]

Hey Downwind

Its news to all of us that there might be a landing light speed restriction !!!!!!

I suggest that you actually go have a look at a navajo first, and then reconsider your questions.

Then buy yourself a Navajo Information manual.

Waistgate failure = naturally aspirated (for starters)

[the wizard of auz]

[email protected], in my experiance that would depend on whether the waste gate failed open or closed...think about overboosting an engine with a wastegate jammed shut and surely if the waste gate jammed open you would have a height limitation far greater than if the aircraft was naturally aspirated.
Hey dale, I didnt know you had two usernames, you sly bugga

It doesnt hurt to ask, I remember doing my C310 endo a few hundred years ago and was asked which tank the fuel to the heater came from and what was the fuel consumption of the heater................after reading the POH and flight manual for about the twentieth time I gave up and asked the chief engineer and got a blank stare for reply. It took him five hours and many phone calls to find out.

[MS Flight Sim Capt]

my apologies i am a little green thank you for correcting me,
i was silly enough to write, before checking my info ,plus i only saw the first page.