Mooney accident pilot refused a clearance at 6,500'
Thread Starter
Yep. I seem to remember in a former lifetime we had E over D just like the USA and Canada!
And Broome and Karratha!
How ever did we end up with the giant roadblock airspace?
Now two unnecessary deaths!
So sad
And Broome and Karratha!
How ever did we end up with the giant roadblock airspace?
Now two unnecessary deaths!
So sad
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So do you think a d surveillance approach at coffs would be good?
Thread Starter
Not a good way to allocate finite safety resources
The radar direction was not intended to have millions spent on a terminal radar facility.
It was to focus AsA to put the correct airspace above D.
The radar direction was not intended to have millions spent on a terminal radar facility.
It was to focus AsA to put the correct airspace above D.
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do you fly much these days? I used to follow your adventures when I was a kid. Very inspirational and got me interested in flying. Could not afford choppers though.
A pilot can’t talk to cloud and request it do anything - at least not to any effect. Pilots can talk to Air ‘services’ and request clearances through gin-clear, empty airspace.
And clouds don’t behave in arbitrary and unpredictable ways that confuse and exasperate people with knowledge of meteorology. The differences in behaviour and outcomes in different parts of the Air ‘services’ system are manifest, confusing and exasperating, and denied only by those who’ve been on the Air ‘services’ KoolAide for way too long.
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would anyone here really fly an aircraft unlicensed with no met briefing, no nav gear and fly over high country in marginal weather? Would anyone take their child up without the legal authorisation to fly and without the required paperwork and nav gear. And you sir have the gall to focus on the airspace as the cause? If he used an EFB App for a couple of hundred bucks, he would have had terrain alerts like I have on my Ipad.
but if he stayed on the ground as he was legally bound to they would have been alive today.
If he had of survived, he would have been charged with illegal operation of an aircraft. If he had of advised ATC he required the clearance due wx, he would have saved himself and his poor son.
Do you acknowledge this pilot should have never started the engine that day due to the findings of ATSB stating multiple breaches of the legislation?
Thread Starter
The prime cause of the accident was that the pilot was prevented from flying en route at 6500 above all the hills on his way to Taree.
If the NAS airspace had been in place he would not have been forced to descend into a mountain.
Having a current bi annual would not have allowed the pilot to remain at 6500’.
The ATSB were dishonest for not mentioning that the airspace had been reversed from E to C without any valid safety study and also failing to mention that the radar direction had not been complied with by AsA.
If the radar direction had been complied with it would have been most likely the aircraft would have remained at 6500’ above the mountains!
Its not called “ road block” airspace for no reason.
If the NAS airspace had been in place he would not have been forced to descend into a mountain.
Having a current bi annual would not have allowed the pilot to remain at 6500’.
The ATSB were dishonest for not mentioning that the airspace had been reversed from E to C without any valid safety study and also failing to mention that the radar direction had not been complied with by AsA.
If the radar direction had been complied with it would have been most likely the aircraft would have remained at 6500’ above the mountains!
Its not called “ road block” airspace for no reason.
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The prime cause of the accident was that the pilot was prevented from flying en route at 6500 above all the hills on his way to Taree.
If the NAS airspace had been in place he would not have been forced to descend into a mountain.
Having a current bi annual would not have allowed the pilot to remain at 6500’.
The ATSB were dishonest for not mentioning that the airspace had been reversed from E to C without any valid safety study and also failing to mention that the radar direction had not been complied with by AsA.
If the radar direction had been complied with it would have been most likely the aircraft would have remained at 6500’ above the mountains!
Its not called “ road block” airspace for no reason.
If the NAS airspace had been in place he would not have been forced to descend into a mountain.
Having a current bi annual would not have allowed the pilot to remain at 6500’.
The ATSB were dishonest for not mentioning that the airspace had been reversed from E to C without any valid safety study and also failing to mention that the radar direction had not been complied with by AsA.
If the radar direction had been complied with it would have been most likely the aircraft would have remained at 6500’ above the mountains!
Its not called “ road block” airspace for no reason.
Thread Starter
Come on. If it was E airspace as per Government NAS policy its most likely we would not be discussing this now.
In the USA and Canada VFR aircraft are not forced to lower levels when flying en route over D airspace.
Why does it happen here? Do you know why the E over D was reversed?
In the USA and Canada VFR aircraft are not forced to lower levels when flying en route over D airspace.
Why does it happen here? Do you know why the E over D was reversed?
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Come on. If it was E airspace as per Government NAS policy its most likely we would not be discussing this now.
In the USA and Canada VFR aircraft are not forced to lower levels when flying en route over D airspace.
Why does it happen here? Do you know why the E over D was reversed?
In the USA and Canada VFR aircraft are not forced to lower levels when flying en route over D airspace.
Why does it happen here? Do you know why the E over D was reversed?
didn't the regulator change e over d to c over d in the early 2000s.?
it's all very confusing.
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he had not done an AFR for years as the report states and was not flying with any reference to charts. Had no situstional awareness if position, terrain and weather.. that is why we have regulations
Thread Starter
All the minute detail about the pilot in the ATSB report was to take away any attention to the fact that the airspace had been reversed and that no other country had similar airspace.
How could they ever do an honest investigation without mentioning this?
If they mentioned that the airspace had been reversed they would have had to cover “ why”?
It could be a career limiting move to have covered this!
So much for honesty and openness in safety investigation.
How could they ever do an honest investigation without mentioning this?
If they mentioned that the airspace had been reversed they would have had to cover “ why”?
It could be a career limiting move to have covered this!
So much for honesty and openness in safety investigation.
I live in the US, so I'm just a lurker here. But take a look at KHWD (Hayward) in California. KHWD is Class D to 1500, then class C (for KOAK) to 2100, then class B (for KSFO) to 10000, then Class E above that (to 18000).
Thread Starter
Ok. I will re phrase. No country in the world has an isolated country town class D airport with C above.
The airport being referred to is clearly under the steps of C airspace in the high traffic density area of San Francisco. Similar to Bankstown.
The C airspace mentioned clearly follows the ministers directive by having an approach radar control service.
No such thing at Coffs. It was clearly the prime reason the pilot was forced down to his and his sons death!
The airport being referred to is clearly under the steps of C airspace in the high traffic density area of San Francisco. Similar to Bankstown.
The C airspace mentioned clearly follows the ministers directive by having an approach radar control service.
No such thing at Coffs. It was clearly the prime reason the pilot was forced down to his and his sons death!
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Ok. I will re phrase. No country in the world has an isolated country town class D airport with C above.
The airport being referred to is clearly under the steps of C airspace in the high traffic density area of San Francisco. Similar to Bankstown.
The C airspace mentioned clearly follows the ministers directive by having an approach radar control service.
No such thing at Coffs. It was clearly the prime reason the pilot was forced down to his and his sons death!
The airport being referred to is clearly under the steps of C airspace in the high traffic density area of San Francisco. Similar to Bankstown.
The C airspace mentioned clearly follows the ministers directive by having an approach radar control service.
No such thing at Coffs. It was clearly the prime reason the pilot was forced down to his and his sons death!
It was clearly the prime reason the pilot was forced down to his and his sons death
Thread Starter
If AsA is going to spend the money to install an approach radar control service at Coffs Harbour the allocated airspace would be class C.
However this would clearly be a gross mis allocation of finite safety resources.
Coffs should be D with E above as per the accepted NAS policy. Just like Karatha and Broome.
The pilot would have kept flying en route at 6500’ above the clouds and mountains. It was only a line and a letter C on a map that resulted in him being forced to descend by ATC into the bad wx and a mountain.
He must have had some form of a chart as he knew where to call for a clearance!
However this would clearly be a gross mis allocation of finite safety resources.
Coffs should be D with E above as per the accepted NAS policy. Just like Karatha and Broome.
The pilot would have kept flying en route at 6500’ above the clouds and mountains. It was only a line and a letter C on a map that resulted in him being forced to descend by ATC into the bad wx and a mountain.
He must have had some form of a chart as he knew where to call for a clearance!
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spot on. The safety of all souls rests with the PIC and that includes ignoring ATC clearance or no clearance to ensure you don't fly into terrain.