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When will they ever learn

Old 26th Feb 2015, 09:23
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When will they ever learn

Walked up to do a maintenance run up of a customers C206 today, wasn't able to get it started so I strolled back to the hangar, heard the thunder behind me and turned around and headed back to tie her down while it passed. On the way the young pilot passed me and I said g'day as you do and tied the plane down, & headed back to the hangar again. Boss said go get the plane so I headed back up in the middle of the storm only to watch the young commercial pilot taxi up the runway, and by the time I got to the safety of the high wings of the 206 I was in a good position to watch (and take a video) as the Saratoga lifted off and headed into the storm. I'm unsure of his outcome and he probably made it home fine, but after 30 years flying I am firmly convinced that some folk will just never learn. incidentally i taxied back to the hangar 10 minutes later with a blue sky overhead .......
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 09:33
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Maybe the said pilot was able to depart in a shower that was reasonably assessed to be laterally clear (enough) of the storm, and within 3-4 min of being airborne was in that same blue sky you observed a bit later???

Whaddya estimate the viz to have been during the Smellytoga's departure from YTBT (aka Timbuktu)????!
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 09:40
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Visibility wasn't the issue, the rain going passed horizontally and the 206 being pushed 30 deg sideways while tied down may have been, and I did enjoy the light and sound show that was provided as a backdrop to the toga's rocking and rolling as it got airborne....
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 10:29
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but after 30 years flying I am firmly convinced that some folk will just never learn.
Its not limited to GA either. As an active storm rolled through Tulla on Monday I saw 4 aircraft land while a QF 737 and JQ A320 sat at the holding point, both having cancelled their ready call due to the storm. The TS siren had gone off before the aircraft landed. In answer to your question- they don't and probably never will.
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Old 26th Feb 2015, 10:34
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Aha, a little more qualification of your initial post helps paint the picture for us more easily.....
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 00:07
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a question that could also be asked is who is it that needs to learn?

you have commented on some flying in marginal metrological conditions that, by your own account, was all successfully undertaken.

we live in an environment of incredible pessimism generated by the "we know safety" experts out there.
aviation is seen as a disaster about to unfold.
the holes in the cheese are everywhere they say. they are about to line up, beware!

the reality is however quite different.

when are you going to learn that aviation can be successfully carried out in less than perfect conditions.
during WW2 the aircraft were such that they couldn't handle high crosswinds on landing. a lot of "wisdom" about landings came into being about then.
in my aeroplane I can and have landed with a rigid windsock at 90 degrees to the runway.
am I to take heed of "conventional" wisdom or can I continue to fly according to my own evaluations of risk, knowing that the conventional wisdom is of a different era?

so who needs to learn?
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 00:35
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Do you have the rego? Maybe the operator/owner of the aircraft would like to see that video.

They're more likely to learn that way, rather than stumbling across this thread and thinking "sh1t, that was me!".
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 00:52
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Yes, let us all tut tut, safe in the knowledge that anything stupid we all did as young inexperienced pilots was before everyone carried around 12 mega pixel video cameras in their pockets.

j3
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 02:04
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Lookleft. Nothing unusual in jets landing whilst others won't depart. If the cells aren't on final, aircraft can land whereas if on the initial departure track they won't depart. What do you suggest, inbound aircraft stay airborne as the cells move through? The siren goes off well before the storm reaches the airfield.
I did 14 years in ML TWR and what you describe sounds pretty normal.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 02:49
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Pot to kettle. I'm just waiting for a thread now about how "some old codger couldn't get a C206 started...can't believe how unprofessional he was...someone said he'd been doing it for thirty years...when will he ever learn"
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 04:36
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I recall voicing concerns prior to a scenic 10 years ago. We taxied out in formation, on the back track I announced that I was taxiing back (to be yelled at by the boss). The senior pilot departed as did the most junior. What followed was an incredibly violent storm and two pilots that did a circuit and scared the f out of themselves their pax and us watching on the ground.

Sometimes you just have to hold on the ground or in the air. I worked that out by the 200 hour mark.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 10:35
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"some old codger couldn't get a C206 started...can't believe how unprofessional he was...someone said he'd been doing it for thirty years...when will he ever learn"
Not exactly sure what you are saying here, I have been required to start many aircraft over the years, and I can remember that on at least one occasion that I did, indeed, flatten the battery of a 206 (as it happens) trying to start it for maintenance. What are you saying?? Ofourse the customer never knew this.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 12:10
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a question that could also be asked is who is it that needs to learn?

you have commented on some flying in marginal metrological conditions that, by your own account, was all successfully undertaken.

we live in an environment of incredible pessimism generated by the "we know safety" experts out there.
aviation is seen as a disaster about to unfold.
the holes in the cheese are everywhere they say. they are about to line up, beware!

the reality is however quite different.

when are you going to learn that aviation can be successfully carried out in less than perfect conditions.
during WW2 the aircraft were such that they couldn't handle high crosswinds on landing. a lot of "wisdom" about landings came into being about then.
in my aeroplane I can and have landed with a rigid windsock at 90 degrees to the runway.
am I to take heed of "conventional" wisdom or can I continue to fly according to my own evaluations of risk, knowing that the conventional wisdom is of a different era?

so who needs to learn?
Sorry for the long quote but W8 obviously was there on the day as well, I'm not sure what part of a Thunderstorm would be described as marginal weather, maybe the part that is 50 miles away from you, you can fly however and whenever you like but not with me in the plane, when does one compare a crosswind with a downburst or microburst?, or maybe you have a better weather radar than my mark one eyeballs did that day. Your plane W8, your risk however a commercial pilot may have my granddaughter with he/she that day and I choose not to blindly accept that this chap had the right to take off when he could have waited a few minutes and operated the flight safely.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 12:21
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Yes, let us all tut tut, safe in the knowledge that anything stupid we all did as young inexperienced pilots was before everyone carried around 12 mega pixel video cameras in their pockets.
Don't wish to comment on your particular stupidity J3, but no I never took off in the middle of a thunderstorm camera or not ....
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 12:57
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Perhaps not Avgas,

I'm sure you were never EVER the young fresh faced young pilot, EVER EVER. Always approached every situation with the level head of a pilot MANY MANY years your senior in experience.

I'm sure you were ALWAYS AT ALL TIMES 100 PUSSCENT. ABOVE BOARD. Never even sniffed something that might have been slightly awry. If you even thought about something mildly naughty, you went home, said 15 hail Mary's and BIRCHED yourself until you bled.

So what did you hope to achieve by coming on here an big noting yourself about 'filming' said 'young CPL?' I mean apart from having a good ole tut tut about the younguns of today? What was the price of fuel when you were a boy? How much were a bag of sweets at the milk bar?

We were all 10ft high and bullet proof when we were young, relative to our current psyche.

By the way, you aren't authorised to comment on my 'particular' stupidity without paying a royalty. My stupidity involves arriving at the servo with 4 bars, wings and ASIC to impress the ladies. It has never worked but I hold out hope that it will one day. I'm sure one day, there will be that one girl, shazza, who will take me up on my offer and I will ride home with her and her 6 kids in her rusty 1994 tarago to domestic bliss. Until that day, my search continues for my elusive shazza.

One last thing, if the 'thunderstorm' was gone with blue sky in 10 mins (your words) wasn't much of a thunderstorm. Funny how said tiny CB could swing a TIED DOWN 206 30 DEGREES SIDEWAYS, but be gone in 10 mins...Perhaps someone needs to remove their foot from the exagerator? Or learn to tie an aircraft down better. Or was this the CB 50 miles away?

Pics or it didn't happen.

j3
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 13:05
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Yes, let us all tut tut, safe in the knowledge that anything stupid we all did as young inexperienced pilots was before everyone carried around 12 mega pixel video cameras in their pockets.
Wasn't there so not passing judgement. But 'we all did'. Does that mean you've taken off in a thunderstorm? I must have had good training.
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 13:20
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Look, if you would like to build a straw man, then go for it, but that wasn't what was meant. What was meant was in one way or another, intentionally or by accident, whether we were conscious of it or not, WE ALL DID STUPID THINGS as inexperienced pilots. Twist that statement however you'd like to also.

j3
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 22:05
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last thing, if the 'thunderstorm' was gone with blue sky in 10 mins (your words) wasn't much of a thunderstorm. Funny how said tiny CB could swing a TIED DOWN 206 30 DEGREES SIDEWAYS, but be gone in 10 mins...Perhaps someone needs to remove their foot from the exagerator? Or learn to tie an aircraft down better. Or was this the CB 50 miles away?
J3
The Thunderstorm was gone in about 20 mins, I did exaggerate the time frame from start to finish was probably 20 mins on reflection, the surrounding storms wind and rain continued in the immediate area for a couple of hours as the front passed through, PM me and I'm happy to send you the video taken as you seem to doubt my ability to determine what constitutes a thunderstorm (is there such a thing as a tiny cell in comparison to a small Piper) I will also send you a photo of the 172 beside it that was at 30 deg also, both aircraft un identified. In fact I am a very low hour pilot in comparison with sky gods like you, however I have been alive 30 years longer than you and I hope you manage to catch up with me with your 4 bars, ray bans and straw hat .....
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 23:07
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So if the surrounding storms and rain continued for a couple of hours, I'm guessing there was no blue sky 10 mins later? So you lied about that? How much of the rest of the story is also fabricated?

You're the one with the ever changing story, post the video on here, for all to see.

I won't respond to the skygod/I've beeen alive longer than you comments.

j3
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Old 27th Feb 2015, 23:27
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Why is everyone on PPRuNe such a smarmy argumentative asshole? This is such a horrible community.
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