Jetgo Blacklist
What I find appalling is that they expect you to fund your type rating and no-one here questions it. Do they ask the bean counters to fund there own desks, pencils and "open" computers?
Oz Aviation is dead.
The Don
Oz Aviation is dead.
The Don
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Seaeagle 109,
No I don't think the comments are harsh.
There's been no explanation of hacking, no explanation it is to become a matter for police investigation due to a cyber-security breach. Whilst the Jetgo management may not share the views contained in the email's content, its grossly inadequate to be simply appalled and embarrassed.
How does a person become unauthorized?: their initial authority is rescinded. An outsider therefore, whom never was a member of the organisation, & thus never held any authority, can't, by definition, be regarded as an unauthorised person.
In a nutshell, its not a hacking issue!
No I don't think the comments are harsh.
There's been no explanation of hacking, no explanation it is to become a matter for police investigation due to a cyber-security breach. Whilst the Jetgo management may not share the views contained in the email's content, its grossly inadequate to be simply appalled and embarrassed.
How does a person become unauthorized?: their initial authority is rescinded. An outsider therefore, whom never was a member of the organisation, & thus never held any authority, can't, by definition, be regarded as an unauthorised person.
In a nutshell, its not a hacking issue!
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Don: the self-funded rating issue - a very good point and was a significant reason why I didn't apply for a DEC at Jetgo.
There needs to be IT policies in any workplace that require each staff member to login to use the computer. It's not hard to do and it ensures the integrity of the company IT useage.
Anyone who is sending emails of this nature to applicants ( whether they are authorised or not) is a workplace pathogen and should be sacked.
There needs to be IT policies in any workplace that require each staff member to login to use the computer. It's not hard to do and it ensures the integrity of the company IT useage.
Anyone who is sending emails of this nature to applicants ( whether they are authorised or not) is a workplace pathogen and should be sacked.
Jetgo would have you believe that either a non-employee or an employed loose cannon happened across an 'open' computer. And that they then thought that the very best use of unfettered access was to write a rude email.
My experience of the ungruntled is that they want to know how much the boss earns, and were they to send messages, they'd be much more likely aimed, anonymously, internally.
My experience of the ungruntled is that they want to know how much the boss earns, and were they to send messages, they'd be much more likely aimed, anonymously, internally.
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I'll have two bob's worth..
Not being privy to all the correspondence between WP (OP) and the company makes it difficult to arrive at a balanced conclusion, however. WP has provided an expression of interest – in confidence. IF we are to believe that 'someone' unauthorised breached that confidentiality and felt free to provide 'that' response, then this, standing alone, casts the company system and management in a very poor light.
Whatever form it took, (the signed or unsigned excuse is legal weasel speak and gutless) it stands as the company response and begs not only many questions but brings other unsavoury aspects to the table. I have lately been looking at opportunities and conditions offered by some of the offshore carriers; many are quite 'up front' about their age limitations and corporate preference. They may for example specify an aircraft type rating ;or, minimum time on type; or, pink socks must be worn. etc. That, discrimination issues aside is fine with me; maximum age at time of employment 55 – cool, not worth applying so save the stamp if you're 54.9. If there is a preferred age or any other 'company' policy openly stated, then it's furry muff. This crowd didn't do that and WP, believing (rightly IMO) that 10,000 hours of experience would be of value, duly applied.
There's a bit of 'tit for tat' in the next part – 'if' WP had known there was an age limitation; would the application have been made ? You see my point is that either by error or deliberate omission the company has opened a can of worms. If there is a clandestine policy of age barrier; then they should be smart enough to have had that covered. If they just hadn't thought it through, it risks the notion of immaturity and basic incompetence of management being mooted.
This is further compounded by the company response to the WP retort; "You're too old" says the doyen of Jetgoo – "No I'm not and that's discriminatory" says WP. Game on. Any Australian knows how quickly a campfire can become a bushfire. Once again, immature management fans the flames, not sensing the potential for trouble, wades in adding insult to injury, instead of taking the potential mess to a grown up.
No matter by whom, how or why: the email response was sent and the holes in the cheese lined up then. The 'type' of company that employs someone immature, ignorant and arrogant enough to stuff up a simple matter of pilot selection cannot be considered a serious player. The underlying elements and attitudes which allowed this type of error can and probably will promote other, perhaps more serious commercial errors to occur. It's not only money and bad business which drive fledgling companies into the dirt. Bad ethics, bad management, bad manners, bad people and blind arrogance are always willing assistants.
There is a reason proper airline management never openly respond on a forum like Pprune, particularly with regard to an issue like this one. It should never, not ever have been allowed to get to this stage. Bad form Jet Go, supported by a disappointing, patronising response.
Anthill, I would suggest that whoever hired and managed the fool that fumbled the ball be fired, it all smacks of insular, immature, arrogant behaviour from the top down.
Nothing can repair the breach of confidentiality, the risk of exposure to legal action, risk of public sanction or the insult to WP, who simply applied for job and had the temerity to ask "why not". Perhaps they don't want real, experienced command pilots, just cardboard cut-outs with nodding heads, deep pockets and no idea of how the real world wags.
The young blokes and blokettes who are serious about a flying career should be looking overseas not pissing about in Oz. There are some great opportunities to see the real world, live somewhere else for a while, fly some real aircraft, meet new folk and have enough adventures and laughs to last you until marriage, old age, booze and bad living carry you off to a happier place. There really is a world beyond flight school and Mum's apple pie.
Times up caller – to extend insert another two bob. Click.. Buuurrrrr.
Whatever form it took, (the signed or unsigned excuse is legal weasel speak and gutless) it stands as the company response and begs not only many questions but brings other unsavoury aspects to the table. I have lately been looking at opportunities and conditions offered by some of the offshore carriers; many are quite 'up front' about their age limitations and corporate preference. They may for example specify an aircraft type rating ;or, minimum time on type; or, pink socks must be worn. etc. That, discrimination issues aside is fine with me; maximum age at time of employment 55 – cool, not worth applying so save the stamp if you're 54.9. If there is a preferred age or any other 'company' policy openly stated, then it's furry muff. This crowd didn't do that and WP, believing (rightly IMO) that 10,000 hours of experience would be of value, duly applied.
There's a bit of 'tit for tat' in the next part – 'if' WP had known there was an age limitation; would the application have been made ? You see my point is that either by error or deliberate omission the company has opened a can of worms. If there is a clandestine policy of age barrier; then they should be smart enough to have had that covered. If they just hadn't thought it through, it risks the notion of immaturity and basic incompetence of management being mooted.
This is further compounded by the company response to the WP retort; "You're too old" says the doyen of Jetgoo – "No I'm not and that's discriminatory" says WP. Game on. Any Australian knows how quickly a campfire can become a bushfire. Once again, immature management fans the flames, not sensing the potential for trouble, wades in adding insult to injury, instead of taking the potential mess to a grown up.
No matter by whom, how or why: the email response was sent and the holes in the cheese lined up then. The 'type' of company that employs someone immature, ignorant and arrogant enough to stuff up a simple matter of pilot selection cannot be considered a serious player. The underlying elements and attitudes which allowed this type of error can and probably will promote other, perhaps more serious commercial errors to occur. It's not only money and bad business which drive fledgling companies into the dirt. Bad ethics, bad management, bad manners, bad people and blind arrogance are always willing assistants.
There is a reason proper airline management never openly respond on a forum like Pprune, particularly with regard to an issue like this one. It should never, not ever have been allowed to get to this stage. Bad form Jet Go, supported by a disappointing, patronising response.
AH "Anyone who is sending emails of this nature to applicants ( whether they are authorised or not) is a workplace pathogen and should be sacked."
Nothing can repair the breach of confidentiality, the risk of exposure to legal action, risk of public sanction or the insult to WP, who simply applied for job and had the temerity to ask "why not". Perhaps they don't want real, experienced command pilots, just cardboard cut-outs with nodding heads, deep pockets and no idea of how the real world wags.
The young blokes and blokettes who are serious about a flying career should be looking overseas not pissing about in Oz. There are some great opportunities to see the real world, live somewhere else for a while, fly some real aircraft, meet new folk and have enough adventures and laughs to last you until marriage, old age, booze and bad living carry you off to a happier place. There really is a world beyond flight school and Mum's apple pie.
Times up caller – to extend insert another two bob. Click.. Buuurrrrr.
Last edited by Kharon; 19th Jul 2014 at 21:40.
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I referenced the Jetgo website which I took to be more authoritative than a post to a discussion list.
I have an interest in matters legal. I'm now 70 years and still working so feel for someone who is allegedly the victim of age discrimination yet perfectly capable of continuing to be a productive and loyal employee.
Think about it....many of you who are younger will be expected to work to 70 before collecting your pensions in this brave new world. And a number of you, sadly, will find a lot of employers overtly discriminate against older applicants.
Kaz
I have an interest in matters legal. I'm now 70 years and still working so feel for someone who is allegedly the victim of age discrimination yet perfectly capable of continuing to be a productive and loyal employee.
Think about it....many of you who are younger will be expected to work to 70 before collecting your pensions in this brave new world. And a number of you, sadly, will find a lot of employers overtly discriminate against older applicants.
Kaz
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And these people fly aeroplanes?
fwiw I think the 'unauthorised' story is a load of damage control horse****e, but if it's not they'd better hope said individual didn't have access to correspondence with CASA as well. The fact is that they (and the person who concluded that they were worth hiring, and the person who concluded that THAT person was worth hiring) work at Jetgo...
I didn't know anything about Jetgo. I do now
There is a reason proper airline management never openly respond on a forum like PPRuNe, particularly with regard to an issue like this one. It should never, not ever have been allowed to get to this stage. Bad form Jet Go, supported by a disappointing, patronising response.
I commend JetGo for getting on here and sticking their head above the parapet. They have stepped up and owned it - so what if they didn't air all the dirty laundry with you lot? You aren't a party to the correspondence.
PPRuNe is a viper pit full of malcontents and PPL know-it-alls.
You sit there and bag out the guys that are doing the right thing and do it well, while defending to the death those who cut every corner and take every liberty.
Some of you keyboard heroes have forgotten what it is like to work in a small, growing company and very few of those whinging here have ever put their coconuts on the block and built something like JetGo have.
I am sure JR and co would like this to never have happened but not everyone can have the structure, the personnel and the overheads of QANTAS group.
...and thank
for that!I feel terrible for the OP who has received an unprovoked and savage slap in the face and for the company who no doubt work very hard to avoid exactly this sort of waste of reputation, time & emotion. I am sure we ALL do.
Stop wringing your hands and pontificating and get on with your lives
I very much doubt Horatio has an interview with Jetgo FPV Dude.
morno
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Jetgo Management says:
Ladies and Gentleman,
Before we are labelled "Ogre's" and worse according to the experts on this forum. JETGO would like to say that the UNSIGNED email sent to "Why Panic" WAS sent by an unauthorized person from an open computer within the organisation. Obviously the company and its management are appalled and embarrassed at the content of the email and are not the views shared by its management. We advise we since have contacted the original applicant and asked him to send his application to management directly. JETGO are investigating as to how this email eventuated.
Ladies and Gentleman,
Before we are labelled "Ogre's" and worse according to the experts on this forum. JETGO would like to say that the UNSIGNED email sent to "Why Panic" WAS sent by an unauthorized person from an open computer within the organisation. Obviously the company and its management are appalled and embarrassed at the content of the email and are not the views shared by its management. We advise we since have contacted the original applicant and asked him to send his application to management directly. JETGO are investigating as to how this email eventuated.
So let me get this straight, some "employee" happened to be walking past the PC that belongs to the HR/recruiting department and decided to look through all of their emails and then comes across this one and thinks "I might just quickly fire off an email to this old dude and tell him he's too old to fly for us" Does that not sound slightly over-the-top ? What a crock. I honestly hope Today Tonight or A Current Affair come knocking !
Leafie, maybe some of us should get off high horses, but you maybe need to remove those rose tinted glasses. Whoever said "you cain't polish a turd" could have been applying it to this mob.
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Well, it seems that there really is a first time for everything!
Horatio Leafblower; As far as I can remember, I have never previously disagreed with any of your posts, opinions etc.
Until now.
Horatio Leafblower; As far as I can remember, I have never previously disagreed with any of your posts, opinions etc.
Until now.
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Horatio,
Not afraid of free speech?
No one is on a high horse, simply telling it as they see it.
As for getting on with lives, for most people here its a fair bet that aviation is a very significant part of their lives. I would argue they seem pretty much fed up with the gong show of mismanagement conducted by many Australian aviation executives.
Why anyone would discourage criticism of unsatisfactory executive performance is beyond me.
Why not speak out and send a message back up the line that if airline managers want people to join their team they had better run a good ship. Staff too take on personal risk and deserve far better than what's occurred here.
For mine, this dialogue is healthy. And for the record, to date, Jetgo have not owned it, they're simply embarrased and appalled. Bit like our modern day politcians who have conveniently learnt to distance themselves from their departments when someone commits a grave mistake.
And now the latest from Jetgo management is to thank a person attempting to shut down the conversation. I simply don't get it!
Not afraid of free speech?
No one is on a high horse, simply telling it as they see it.
As for getting on with lives, for most people here its a fair bet that aviation is a very significant part of their lives. I would argue they seem pretty much fed up with the gong show of mismanagement conducted by many Australian aviation executives.
Why anyone would discourage criticism of unsatisfactory executive performance is beyond me.
Why not speak out and send a message back up the line that if airline managers want people to join their team they had better run a good ship. Staff too take on personal risk and deserve far better than what's occurred here.
For mine, this dialogue is healthy. And for the record, to date, Jetgo have not owned it, they're simply embarrased and appalled. Bit like our modern day politcians who have conveniently learnt to distance themselves from their departments when someone commits a grave mistake.
And now the latest from Jetgo management is to thank a person attempting to shut down the conversation. I simply don't get it!
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Copythisnumberdown, with all of your 20 posts, you are by all definitions a tool. Go *uck yourself. As for your references to Rolf Harris, poor form and utterly disrespectful.
I find it interesting that 98% of your 20 posts are about JetGo... Hmmm, that is interesting.... Just joining the dots here.
I find it interesting that 98% of your 20 posts are about JetGo... Hmmm, that is interesting.... Just joining the dots here.
Pinky - that's cool. 
I just think some people are being a bit hysterical about this
Shut it down? No not really. Stop acting like 6 year old girls? Definitely.
I just think some people are being a bit hysterical about this
Shut it down? No not really. Stop acting like 6 year old girls? Definitely.
What I find interesting about this thread is that it has not gone off topic like so many seem to. It could have degenerated into the tired old argument about whether silly old buggers should get out of the industry so that gen x and gen y could race to the top - but it did not. If it had, it would certainly have deserved to be shut down - if only because that argument has been done to death elsewhere in these forums.
Instead, most were in agreement that Jetgo had acted inappropriately and have compounded their indiscretions with a very poor attempt at damage control.
What is so hysterical or childish about commentary surrounding this?
Instead, most were in agreement that Jetgo had acted inappropriately and have compounded their indiscretions with a very poor attempt at damage control.
What is so hysterical or childish about commentary surrounding this?