Jetgo Blacklist
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Why Panic gets told that he is considered too old for the position, although he is four years short of the max age for international flying, let alone there being no such age barrier to flying domestically in Aus.
Qantas v. Christie is different. In that matter the pilot was too old at that time to fulfil his role as an international pilot. It was not that he would be too old in 4 years time.
The Australian Human Rights Commission website states: "Age discrimination is when a person is treated less favourably than another person in a similar situation, because of their age". Certainly seems to be the case here.
In regards to:
,
Absolutely disgraceful. A guy applies for a job, gets a knock back based on purely discriminatory grounds (geez, they didn't even have to give a reason however they did and it was an illegal one!!) and then not only does he receive a patronising suggestion that he retire gracefully, he get threatened with "blacklisting" after he mentions his legal rights.
I cannot for the life of me understand how some here are justifying the position of Jetgo.
Qantas v. Christie is different. In that matter the pilot was too old at that time to fulfil his role as an international pilot. It was not that he would be too old in 4 years time.
The Australian Human Rights Commission website states: "Age discrimination is when a person is treated less favourably than another person in a similar situation, because of their age". Certainly seems to be the case here.
In regards to:
"The fact that a professional pilot has threatened to sue us instead of taking a graceful retirement from a flying role is noted and will be passed on at CEO level to all HR heads at major Australian operators therefore black banning you from Australian Aviation. Your Call
Have a great Day"
Have a great Day"
Absolutely disgraceful. A guy applies for a job, gets a knock back based on purely discriminatory grounds (geez, they didn't even have to give a reason however they did and it was an illegal one!!) and then not only does he receive a patronising suggestion that he retire gracefully, he get threatened with "blacklisting" after he mentions his legal rights.
I cannot for the life of me understand how some here are justifying the position of Jetgo.
"WP" I feel for you & fortunately most here are sympathetic to yr plight, shame about the few who think somewhat oddly but I guess we are all entitled to an opinion right or wrong.
I hope you can get some legal advice to yr benefit & turn the big stick around & whack them over the head!
In a strange sort of way JetGo have done you a favour by saying such school yard bully crap as it shows their mentality already to treating pilots & you don't even work for them!
I note "PB" is listed as the MD, interesting, haven't heard that name in many years.
GoGetEm
Wmk2
I hope you can get some legal advice to yr benefit & turn the big stick around & whack them over the head!
In a strange sort of way JetGo have done you a favour by saying such school yard bully crap as it shows their mentality already to treating pilots & you don't even work for them!
I note "PB" is listed as the MD, interesting, haven't heard that name in many years.
GoGetEm
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 18th Jul 2014 at 07:40.
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Ascend Charlie. The company would not be criminally liable for anything should their insurance not allow a 60+ yr old pilot at the controls !
Criminal = persons who commit indictable offences.
I would suggest that the OP start calling news papers, TV and radio stations and expose this mob !
Criminal = persons who commit indictable offences.
I would suggest that the OP start calling news papers, TV and radio stations and expose this mob !
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Amen, Square Bear.
Really showing their colours now aren't they!?
Arrogant biz-jet jockeys full of their own self importance... how sad.
Happy Landings
Really showing their colours now aren't they!?
Arrogant biz-jet jockeys full of their own self importance... how sad.
Happy Landings
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Thats the mother load right there, follow that up and you won't need to work again...
The threats would possibly open a victimisation/harassment claim as well as one of age discrimination...it's certainly an aggravation.
Talk to your legal team about which legislation they will be lodging the complaints under. Ask them who they will be briefing, especially if going to the Federal Court. I have briefed Fiona McLeod SC who practises out of Melbourne. Strongly suggest you seek an opinion from her if she is available.
Kaz
My prediction....
The response to the ADC would look something like...
"This email response was written by a staff member who was not authorised to do so and does not reflect the view of the company.
The staff member concerned has been counselled and no longer has any association with pilot recruitment
The management regrets any offence caused and apologises to mr XX. We would be happy to review mr xx's resume should he wish to apply again."
He would then be interviewed and oddly be unsuccessful.
But again that is only a prediction.
The response to the ADC would look something like...
"This email response was written by a staff member who was not authorised to do so and does not reflect the view of the company.
The staff member concerned has been counselled and no longer has any association with pilot recruitment
The management regrets any offence caused and apologises to mr XX. We would be happy to review mr xx's resume should he wish to apply again."
He would then be interviewed and oddly be unsuccessful.
But again that is only a prediction.
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Your posts seem more like you are overreacting to an honest reply from Jetgo telling you why you were not accepted. Then you threaten to sue them! Nice!!!
Maybe you should have checked your facts before "slagging off"... Google is your friend!
Maybe you should have checked your facts before "slagging off"... Google is your friend!
Discrimination is proscribed by the Age Discrimination Act 2004, not the Disability Discrimination Act 1992
Do you honestly believe, HWTH, that today in Australia a 61 year old pilot who meets the health and competency standards imposed on his colleagues of whatever age should be denied work on the ground he doesn't comply with the inherent requirements of the job simply because of his age?
Give me a break!
Kaz
Edit: the employer is vicariously liable under the Act.
Edit: couple of trolls here, perhaps?
Last edited by kaz3g; 18th Jul 2014 at 08:21. Reason: Brain slowdown...over 70
So before everyone and their bar room lawyers get a bit too overheated maybe we should take a look at the requirements of Part IVA of the Civil Aviation (Carriers’ Liability) Act 1959 (Act).
It is fact that it has been tested by pilots and companies with FWA & the AFAP in relation to so called age discrimination, and to be honest it never ends up good for the pilots. The provisions of the act override the Human Rights Commission laws.
Sorry champ but that too does not stand up in court, there is no law as to insurance coverage other than the value and the fact it needs to be carried.
It has nothing to do with the organization, and everything to do with the level of risk the underwriter and insurer are prepared to carry.
The level of risk they carry, then dictates the minimums, time on type, etc that the company has to stick by even before someone comes up with a premium. I have seen it in several companies and I agree it is the **** end of the stick where a very capable pilot gets passed over because he does not meet the requirements of an invisible line in the sand for another seat warmer of much lesser capability.
I have been and still am an AFAP member my whole career and prior to that I was even a TWU member (remember the days of no ticket, no start at the airport) each and every time the union has become involved in this kind of action it ends in tears, and the pilot walks away bitching and moaning and the AFAP spend more of our member fees on no win situations.
I dont mean to single out the AFAP, it also applies to AIPA, VIPA and the previously unmentionable PA.
It is fact that it has been tested by pilots and companies with FWA & the AFAP in relation to so called age discrimination, and to be honest it never ends up good for the pilots. The provisions of the act override the Human Rights Commission laws.
It's up to you as an employer to pay for insurance that covers your needs. You can't pick and choose employees to suit your insurance.
It has nothing to do with the organization, and everything to do with the level of risk the underwriter and insurer are prepared to carry.
The level of risk they carry, then dictates the minimums, time on type, etc that the company has to stick by even before someone comes up with a premium. I have seen it in several companies and I agree it is the **** end of the stick where a very capable pilot gets passed over because he does not meet the requirements of an invisible line in the sand for another seat warmer of much lesser capability.
I have been and still am an AFAP member my whole career and prior to that I was even a TWU member (remember the days of no ticket, no start at the airport) each and every time the union has become involved in this kind of action it ends in tears, and the pilot walks away bitching and moaning and the AFAP spend more of our member fees on no win situations.
I dont mean to single out the AFAP, it also applies to AIPA, VIPA and the previously unmentionable PA.
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Why would any company choose to market itself in such a haphazard, problematic way? Who in their right, business mind would ever think it ok to sign off a corporate communications with............ " Your Call. Have a great day"? BIZZARE!
Based on the information you have provided Why Panic, good on you for firstly challenging the Jetgo response & secondly for publishing the situation here.
In fact, I believe you done the right thing. Rather than have them recieve a call from The Anti Discrimination Commissioner, you professionally informed them of the action you intended to take. They had your details & thus you afforded them the opportunity to nip this in the bud, pick up the phone and talk it over with you.
But worst for them, the word is out that their puerile, playground-like handling of your concern is quite possibly what's in store for future staff. For mine, this may well be either ops normal for Jetgo or company management/ founders aren't implementing a systemised, training process to cover 'how we market ourselves'.
I wouldn't expect this venture to be a high flyer if this sitaution was to be repeated. Tread carefully if you are planning to invest in a 145 rating.
As for the bozo who suggested you step aside and give someone else a turn, we're not down at the park palying on the swings. You have as much right to be on the team as anyone.
Good luck with the outcome & please keep us posted.
Based on the information you have provided Why Panic, good on you for firstly challenging the Jetgo response & secondly for publishing the situation here.
In fact, I believe you done the right thing. Rather than have them recieve a call from The Anti Discrimination Commissioner, you professionally informed them of the action you intended to take. They had your details & thus you afforded them the opportunity to nip this in the bud, pick up the phone and talk it over with you.
But worst for them, the word is out that their puerile, playground-like handling of your concern is quite possibly what's in store for future staff. For mine, this may well be either ops normal for Jetgo or company management/ founders aren't implementing a systemised, training process to cover 'how we market ourselves'.
I wouldn't expect this venture to be a high flyer if this sitaution was to be repeated. Tread carefully if you are planning to invest in a 145 rating.
As for the bozo who suggested you step aside and give someone else a turn, we're not down at the park palying on the swings. You have as much right to be on the team as anyone.
Good luck with the outcome & please keep us posted.
Instead I got an email back saying that at 61 I was too old for them, as I couldn't fly internationally at 65.
How about a reply such as, "Your application has been unsuccessful. Thank you for your interest."
Sounds as though they have young, inexperienced and immature HR staff.
If that puerile response to the applicant is for real - as it seems to be - it did not come from a trained HR person. Even your average 18 year old student HR wannabe would have been trained enough to know the perils of threatening and belittling adult professionals.
That email has pilot-manager ego written all over it. And not very bright pilot-manager at that, but at least the ego part has evolved to a high level.
That email has pilot-manager ego written all over it. And not very bright pilot-manager at that, but at least the ego part has evolved to a high level.
Jetgo Management is very quiet? They're normally on here debunking any untruths...
I can just imagine Mr Borghetti getting the blackban call.
'Jet who? Oh Jetgo, yes of course. I've heard of you' (covers mouthpiece and mouths to secretary 'who the fark are Jetgo?'
I can just imagine Mr Borghetti getting the blackban call.
'Jet who? Oh Jetgo, yes of course. I've heard of you' (covers mouthpiece and mouths to secretary 'who the fark are Jetgo?'
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Mach E, yep but here is the real reason older people don't get hired by HR.
but here is the real reason older people don't get hired by HR.
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There was an interesting thing that happened in Canada a while back.
All of the young pilots got together and forced changes that made mandatory retirement at age 65 be put in place.
15-20yrs later down the track, these guys are up for retirement and are now fighting tooth and nail to have that age limit removed so they can stay in their positions for a few years longer.
Its always interesting when the shoe ends up on the other foot.
All of the young pilots got together and forced changes that made mandatory retirement at age 65 be put in place.
15-20yrs later down the track, these guys are up for retirement and are now fighting tooth and nail to have that age limit removed so they can stay in their positions for a few years longer.
Its always interesting when the shoe ends up on the other foot.
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How does this case differ then?
"The fact that a professional pilot has threatened to sue us instead of taking a graceful retirement from a flying role is noted and will be passed on at CEO level to all HR heads at major Australian operators therefore black banning you from Australian Aviation. Your Call
Have a great Day"
Have a great Day"
Anyway, good for you and those that support this kind of behaviour, just that I, and a I would suggest a good percentage of decent people don't.
Chocks Away, love ya work!
Reminds me of when I applied to Virgin a few years after they started up. I was already well over 50. Some chick from HR was tasked with doing preliminary telephone interviews. She had a list of stock questions such as "what are your strengths and weaknesses?" When she got to "where do you see yourself in 10 years?" I replied "retired and sailing the Pacific - by the way do you get seasick and can you cook in a confined space." Dunno why I never got the job.
Reminds me of when I applied to Virgin a few years after they started up. I was already well over 50. Some chick from HR was tasked with doing preliminary telephone interviews. She had a list of stock questions such as "what are your strengths and weaknesses?" When she got to "where do you see yourself in 10 years?" I replied "retired and sailing the Pacific - by the way do you get seasick and can you cook in a confined space." Dunno why I never got the job.
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There are quite a few over 50 CzFOs and FOs at Virgin.
The argument that the employee "was not authorised to send the email" won't hold water. The company holds responsibility to ensure that all staff comply with legislation, including the Anti-Discrimination Act. There is NO wriggle room for them on this one.
I had a brief moment where I considered applying for a job with them as a DEC. This confirms my correct choice in not doings so. They'll be out of business in 2 years anyway.
As for the silly comment regarding retiring to give some " younger guy a go", over 60's pilots have every legal and moral right to work as long as their Class 1 medical remains valid.
The argument that the employee "was not authorised to send the email" won't hold water. The company holds responsibility to ensure that all staff comply with legislation, including the Anti-Discrimination Act. There is NO wriggle room for them on this one.
I had a brief moment where I considered applying for a job with them as a DEC. This confirms my correct choice in not doings so. They'll be out of business in 2 years anyway.
As for the silly comment regarding retiring to give some " younger guy a go", over 60's pilots have every legal and moral right to work as long as their Class 1 medical remains valid.