Multicom vs area frequency
On a very quick scan, here are some more, South East of Darwin, that aren’t on the WAC but are on VTC/VNC:
Mt Bundy Mine (YMBN)
Anaburroo (YANR)
Kapalga (YKPG)
Wildman Lagoon Camp (YCWC)
Shady Camp (YSHA)
....
Anyone like to nominate a hive of aviation activity that isn’t marked on any aeronautical chart?
Mt Bundy Mine (YMBN)
Anaburroo (YANR)
Kapalga (YKPG)
Wildman Lagoon Camp (YCWC)
Shady Camp (YSHA)
....
Anyone like to nominate a hive of aviation activity that isn’t marked on any aeronautical chart?
Well there must be, at numerous unmarked airstrips across the country, because we’re told by Dick and others that the flood of broadcasts on area frequency from them would cause ‘instant meltdown’. (Apparently we’ve been saved because they all ignore, or don’t read, NOTAMs.)
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Everyone's an expert. Especially those who don't or have never operated an air ground frequency. When on combine my group operates 7 frequencies on re-transmit. Some aircraft can't hear when other aircraft are transmitting due mainly to geographic limitations, so let's just complicate it just a little bit more 
I doubt this will be a problem anyway, in my experience rarely are VFR aircraft: monitoring the area frequency or situationally aware
I doubt this will be a problem anyway, in my experience rarely are VFR aircraft: monitoring the area frequency or situationally aware
Precisely!
There’s no problem, because VFR pilots either ignore, or don’t read, NOTAMs. They don’t need no steeeenkin’ area frequency or seeetuashonal awareness.
There’s no problem, because VFR pilots either ignore, or don’t read, NOTAMs. They don’t need no steeeenkin’ area frequency or seeetuashonal awareness.
Radio Check. Tap tap. Is this thing working?
Anyone like to nominate a hive of aviation activity that isn’t marked on any aeronautical chart?
Has there been a meltdown anywhere, as a consequence of all the broadcasts on area frequency?
Hello...
(I must be transmitting on a discrete CTAF
)
Anyone like to nominate a hive of aviation activity that isn’t marked on any aeronautical chart?
Has there been a meltdown anywhere, as a consequence of all the broadcasts on area frequency?
Hello...
(I must be transmitting on a discrete CTAF
)
The only ‘occurrence’ that would be relevant to this issue is an incident caused by an area frequency being clogged up by broadcasts that would allegedly have happened on 126.7 at all these unmarked hives of aviation activity. That’s why I’m interested to know where they are, and also what ‘meltdowns’ have occurred as a consequence of the ‘change’.
If I had to bet money on the more likely matter to end up in front of coroner, it will be a low hours private pilot, with pax, in the middle of nowhere, who transmits a MAYDAY on 126.7 and either no one hears or the only people who do hear are not competent to take effective action in response to what they heard.
If I had to bet money on the more likely matter to end up in front of coroner, it will be a low hours private pilot, with pax, in the middle of nowhere, who transmits a MAYDAY on 126.7 and either no one hears or the only people who do hear are not competent to take effective action in response to what they heard.
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The only ‘occurrence’ that would be relevant to this issue is an incident caused by an area frequency being clogged up by broadcasts that would allegedly have happened on 126.7 at all these unmarked hives of aviation activity.
If I had to bet money on the more likely matter to end up in front of coroner, it will be a low hours private pilot, with pax, in the middle of nowhere, who transmits a MAYDAY on 126.7 and either no one hears or the only people who do hear are not competent to take effective action in response to what they heard.
So .... now that the NOTAM and AIP make crystal clear that broadcasts by aircraft operating at or in the vicinity of aerodromes that aren’t depicted on any aeronautical charts must be made on the area frequency, has there been a melt-down anywhere?
Is it remotely possible that the number of these places and movements in and out of them is of no substantial consequence to the volume of broadcasts on area frequency?
Or are people comfortable with the delusion that the pilots operating at and around these places either deliberately ignore, or don’t read, NOTAMs or AIP?
Is it remotely possible that the number of these places and movements in and out of them is of no substantial consequence to the volume of broadcasts on area frequency?
Or are people comfortable with the delusion that the pilots operating at and around these places either deliberately ignore, or don’t read, NOTAMs or AIP?
It's not a delusion- it's most likely a fact that most pilots will ignore this requirement or will not read the NOTAM or AIP.
The NAS plan approved by the Aviation Reform Group which included the current Chair of AsA Angus Houston and the heads of just about everything else in aviation clearly stated that such calls should be on the multicom frequency.
This decision has not been rescinded .
Notice how no " named " person from CASA is identifying with this requirement.
But I bet they will all harden their views - can't possibly admit to making such a basic error!
The NAS plan approved by the Aviation Reform Group which included the current Chair of AsA Angus Houston and the heads of just about everything else in aviation clearly stated that such calls should be on the multicom frequency.
This decision has not been rescinded .
Notice how no " named " person from CASA is identifying with this requirement.
But I bet they will all harden their views - can't possibly admit to making such a basic error!
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Jack said
That's a sad comment, Jack. I just flew to a conference in Alice and back to Shepparton in my Auster. Got back today.
I lodged my sartimes with ASA by Internet where possible and otherwise by radio. I monitored area frequencies all the way and I tried to be very situationally aware. Ozrunways was a big help in keeping track of frequency changes in the remote areas.
The tower people at Alice as always were helpful and tolerant of this 70 yo pilot in her 70 yo aeroplane. I went up to say "hi" to Paul in the tower whom I last saw there in 2009. The Area Controllers I spoke to were likewise very helpful and friendly. Departing William Creek the other day, I didn't get radio coverage until 7500 and then lodged a Sartime request by radio. Reception was poor but the Controller was assisted by a couple of IFR aircraft in the area and my plan was lodged.
I'm always grateful to those who keep me safe and I listen out on 122.4 when appropriate at home.
Kaz
. Everyone's an expert. Especially those who don't or have never operated an air ground frequency. When on combine my group operates 7 frequencies on re-transmit. Some aircraft can't hear when other aircraft are transmitting due mainly to geographic limitations, so let's just complicate it just a little bit more
I doubt this will be a problem anyway, in my experience rarely are VFR aircraft: monitoring the area frequency or situationally aware
I doubt this will be a problem anyway, in my experience rarely are VFR aircraft: monitoring the area frequency or situationally aware
I lodged my sartimes with ASA by Internet where possible and otherwise by radio. I monitored area frequencies all the way and I tried to be very situationally aware. Ozrunways was a big help in keeping track of frequency changes in the remote areas.
The tower people at Alice as always were helpful and tolerant of this 70 yo pilot in her 70 yo aeroplane. I went up to say "hi" to Paul in the tower whom I last saw there in 2009. The Area Controllers I spoke to were likewise very helpful and friendly. Departing William Creek the other day, I didn't get radio coverage until 7500 and then lodged a Sartime request by radio. Reception was poor but the Controller was assisted by a couple of IFR aircraft in the area and my plan was lodged.
I'm always grateful to those who keep me safe and I listen out on 122.4 when appropriate at home.
Kaz
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Kaz, I operate 122.4, you'll know how busy it is in the YSHT, YMNG area. You'd be surprised at how many times VFR aircraft fly through dropzones neither on the area or CTAF frequency. Rarely does a call from Centre to a VFR get answered. Stuffed if I know what they're listening to? Airspace violations are a regular occurence, once again, with ozrunways & Avplan how does this happen?
Frequencies are a dog's breakfast now, these changes will make it? Interesting? I don't sit at home reading ICAO documents so I don't know where this has come from? Neither do most of my colleagues.
Frequencies are a dog's breakfast now, these changes will make it? Interesting? I don't sit at home reading ICAO documents so I don't know where this has come from? Neither do most of my colleagues.
Maybe if irresponsible dills weren't encouraging them to stay off the area frequency, you might be able to contact them and assist with their situational awareness.
It's come from people attempting to keep the pre 1990 " radio arranged separation" techniques in the twenty first century.
In the old system CTAFs did not exist- all calls at non tower aerodromes were on the FS frequency allocated to the area where the aerodrome existed.
It worked pretty well but cost a lot of money to have FSOs monitoring all these calls.
Aussie pilots should note- don't try making announcements on ATC frequencies in other countries - it's not allowed due to safety reasons. All communication must be directed to the Controller.
No doubt after an unnecessary accident or serious incident it will be prohibited here too.
In the old system CTAFs did not exist- all calls at non tower aerodromes were on the FS frequency allocated to the area where the aerodrome existed.
It worked pretty well but cost a lot of money to have FSOs monitoring all these calls.
Aussie pilots should note- don't try making announcements on ATC frequencies in other countries - it's not allowed due to safety reasons. All communication must be directed to the Controller.
No doubt after an unnecessary accident or serious incident it will be prohibited here too.
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I find it interesting that after over ten years in the books there are folk about that don't seem to know that it ever existed..!!
No doubt it will change again.....
No doubt it will change again.....
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. Kaz, I operate 122.4, you'll know how busy it is in the YSHT, YMNG area. You'd be surprised at how many times VFR aircraft fly through dropzones neither on the area or CTAF frequency. Rarely does a call from Centre to a VFR get answered. Stuffed if I know what they're listening to? Airspace violations are a regular occurence, once again, with ozrunways & Avplan how does this happen?
Frequencies are a dog's breakfast now...
Frequencies are a dog's breakfast now...
I've heard you and Melbourne Radar castigating infringements and rightly so, but I don't really know why they happen other than those pilots are either awfully slack or incredibly selfish or both.
I tend to avoid Mangalore these days:-) At Shepparton we try to look after one another and the two flying schools are very professional. I got back from Alice via Renmark and Swan Hill today and the AWIS wasn't working. When I gave my inbound call, Alan Cole (Gawne's CFI) kindly came on the radio to welcome me and to give me the wind...my Auster has max dem XW of just 9 knots.
It would be nice if everyone cared like that and would no doubt make your workload a tad easier, too.
It seems to me that all these little airfields people are mentioning are not CTAFs at all. Wignells at Euroa is an example. It's a private strip south of the Highway marked Euroa on the WAC. The old gliding strip north of the Highway is marked Euroa Soaring Centre on the same chart. But on the VNC, Wignells isn't shown at all and the ESC strip becomes Euroa. Neither is listed in ERSA. I haven't seen or heard anything flying out of either of them for ages. When the charts are confused I guess it's not unreasonable to expect confusion amongst the players, too.
I listen to you there because I know you will tell me if something is likely to cause me grief as it follows the iron compass down to Seymour or up to Benalla...no-one ever comes on 126.7 there and only a very few remember to call Locksley AND Mangalore.
Kaz
Originally Posted by Dick
Aussie pilots should note- don't try making announcements on ATC frequencies in other countries - it's not allowed due to safety reasons.
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Like I said.... there are both "professional" and "recreational" pilots here who obviously don't understand how the system is meant to work.
There has always been and always will be a culture that resists change (human nature at its best) if there is a lack of understanding in the purpose of the change. The responsibility for such education rests in this case in the first instance with CASA, but sadly they don't seem to have any idea of how to do that! One has only to go back to '97 when the revised read-back requirements came in and CASA were told by industry the various outcomes. The education failed and exactly what industry said has come to pass, and the errors are being passed on by instructors and training pilots....
Creamy – I usually enjoy your posts, however on this topic you have pulled the leg too far and the outcome I suggest is even more confusion. Sadly, it seems you are in the group mentioned in para one above… but you can take pride in that along with others, it is not your fault!
There has always been and always will be a culture that resists change (human nature at its best) if there is a lack of understanding in the purpose of the change. The responsibility for such education rests in this case in the first instance with CASA, but sadly they don't seem to have any idea of how to do that! One has only to go back to '97 when the revised read-back requirements came in and CASA were told by industry the various outcomes. The education failed and exactly what industry said has come to pass, and the errors are being passed on by instructors and training pilots....
Creamy – I usually enjoy your posts, however on this topic you have pulled the leg too far and the outcome I suggest is even more confusion. Sadly, it seems you are in the group mentioned in para one above… but you can take pride in that along with others, it is not your fault!