Seeking an honest opinion on completing CPL...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seeking an honest opinion on completing CPL...
I'm a long time reader, but first time poster.
My dream has always been to complete my CPL and work in the aviation industry. However, due to work commitments, family etc the dream was put on hold.
Up until now I've done approximately 50 hours, but it has been infrequent over the past 8 years or so. I've never got around to completing my GFPT.
I have been investigating the option of completing a graduate certificate/diploma which will allow me to put the costs of a CPL and MECIR/Instructor Rating on Fee-Help. This helps with the cost factor hurdle.
I've done lots of reading, but would appreciate some honest opinions on whether this will be a worthwhile exercise, given my age (28).
Whilst the costs will be deferred, I'm still staring down the barrel of close to $100k, and don't want to make the decision without due consideration.
Would be really keen to hear from anyone who's been in a similar position, and what the outcome was....
My dream has always been to complete my CPL and work in the aviation industry. However, due to work commitments, family etc the dream was put on hold.
Up until now I've done approximately 50 hours, but it has been infrequent over the past 8 years or so. I've never got around to completing my GFPT.
I have been investigating the option of completing a graduate certificate/diploma which will allow me to put the costs of a CPL and MECIR/Instructor Rating on Fee-Help. This helps with the cost factor hurdle.
I've done lots of reading, but would appreciate some honest opinions on whether this will be a worthwhile exercise, given my age (28).
Whilst the costs will be deferred, I'm still staring down the barrel of close to $100k, and don't want to make the decision without due consideration.
Would be really keen to hear from anyone who's been in a similar position, and what the outcome was....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Try to get a cadetship, if that is not possible I wouldn't bother unless you really enjoy GA for the remainder of your life.
Flying is great but it doesn't pay the bills, if I could have my time again I would invest my money towards a degree in Medicine or Finance.
Live your life the way you see suitable but also remember that flying is a blue collar job that pays very badly for the investment.
Flying is great but it doesn't pay the bills, if I could have my time again I would invest my money towards a degree in Medicine or Finance.
Live your life the way you see suitable but also remember that flying is a blue collar job that pays very badly for the investment.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Perth, Australia
Age: 42
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having been in a similar situation a few years ago I'll chime in before everyone tells you to find a job which pays well and fly for fun.
Firstly the cost; I was lucky that by the time I decided to go commercial I already had close to 200 hours flying privately so it wasn't hugely expensive to obtain a CPL. Paying your own way will work out a lot cheaper but if that simply isn't an option then fee-help is your only course of action. I will say choose your school wisely and speak to some ex-students before you commit.
Most of the people on here will tell you not to bother. They'll tell you GA as an industry has gone to s
t, they'll tell you the money is better at McDonalds and to be honest they're probably right on the two latter points. At the end of the day you need to follow your dreams. I gave up my own business and a much larger paycheque to fly in GA but the return is that I enjoy going to work in the mornings and my fiance and family tell me I'm a much happier person for it. We can still afford to put food on the table and I look forward to going to work, what more can you ask for in life? 
Firstly the cost; I was lucky that by the time I decided to go commercial I already had close to 200 hours flying privately so it wasn't hugely expensive to obtain a CPL. Paying your own way will work out a lot cheaper but if that simply isn't an option then fee-help is your only course of action. I will say choose your school wisely and speak to some ex-students before you commit.
Most of the people on here will tell you not to bother. They'll tell you GA as an industry has gone to s
t, they'll tell you the money is better at McDonalds and to be honest they're probably right on the two latter points. At the end of the day you need to follow your dreams. I gave up my own business and a much larger paycheque to fly in GA but the return is that I enjoy going to work in the mornings and my fiance and family tell me I'm a much happier person for it. We can still afford to put food on the table and I look forward to going to work, what more can you ask for in life?
This helps with the cost factor hurdle.
Depends on whether you:
(a) are deluded enough to believe that being a commercial pilot will be an inspirational experience and lucrative career, or
(b) are smart enough to know that being a commercial pilot is no longer an inspirational experience or lucrative career, but you nonetheless want to be a commercial pilot for spiritual or masochistic reasons.
If (a), do yourself a favour and get a trade or complete a degree and make some real money and fly when and where you like on a private licence.
If (b), go for it! The likes of Alan Joyce need you.
(a) are deluded enough to believe that being a commercial pilot will be an inspirational experience and lucrative career, or
(b) are smart enough to know that being a commercial pilot is no longer an inspirational experience or lucrative career, but you nonetheless want to be a commercial pilot for spiritual or masochistic reasons.
If (a), do yourself a favour and get a trade or complete a degree and make some real money and fly when and where you like on a private licence.
If (b), go for it! The likes of Alan Joyce need you.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do it! I made that decision in my early 30's and love my life! The problem with aviation is that there are a number of tossers who had mummy and daddy buy them a licence and feel that they are entitled to earn $350k flying for a legacy carrier, and everyone behind them should have to do it at least as hard (if not harder) than they had to do it. Many of these people who seem to infiltrate aviation have never worked in the "real world" therefor feel that they are hard done by because they "only" earn $130k pa flying as an FO and they are required to attend their workplace for a whopping 30-35 hours per week! Having done both I can say that being a pilot is a freaking awesome job and can provide you with a very comfortable income, and enough time to enjoy your lifestyle. A typical path now days for a hard worker is something like...2-3 years in GA, 2-3 years in a regional as an FO, then decide whether to take a command in the regional, or join a jet operator. The jaded and the entitled will tell you that you can't do it, you'll fail and won't be happy, but generally these people are the types who would still complain if you gave them brand new 777's, paid them a fortune to fly it and only made them work between 9 & 5 on CAVOK days. You are the only one who can make the decision. Go for it!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Central Hub
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You can earn $100 to $130K on the line in GA, in a capital city (up to $150k in the bush). It's more than most people earn and should "pay the bills". Assuming you can't or choose not to fly for an airline.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many jobs in GA can afford you a nice lifestyle and sound job security. DHC8 coastwatch captains are on $120k+, RFDS pilots around the country make $100k+ as do most regional turboprop captains.
It's a big wide world in this industry. I beg you to look past the glossy A380 photos in the cadetship brochures, you may pleasantly surprise yourself.
It's a big wide world in this industry. I beg you to look past the glossy A380 photos in the cadetship brochures, you may pleasantly surprise yourself.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all the replies.
At this stage, I'm not particularly keen on chasing a jet flying career, and whilst things can change, I see my ultimate goal to be working for a regional carrier or remaining in GA.
I like to think that the life experience I have from working etc will be a positive for potential future employers, compared to an 18-20 year old who has only ever worked at Kmart and lived at home with mum and dad.
At this stage, I'm not particularly keen on chasing a jet flying career, and whilst things can change, I see my ultimate goal to be working for a regional carrier or remaining in GA.
I like to think that the life experience I have from working etc will be a positive for potential future employers, compared to an 18-20 year old who has only ever worked at Kmart and lived at home with mum and dad.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was a very similar position as you but was fortunate enough to have averred that helped me fund my training after some serious belt tightening.
The real life experience will be a favorable in many employers eyes.
HOWEVER don't arrive with an attitude that your experience somehow makes you better than your often younger fellow pilots, I have learnt a lot from pilots ranging early 20 something's through to your grey beards.
The million dollar question is though, how supportive is your partner? Living out in the bush can be a challenge.
Personally I say go for it! If you're spending that sorta cash I would consider getting a degree out it as week though, if you haven't got one already that is.
The real life experience will be a favorable in many employers eyes.
HOWEVER don't arrive with an attitude that your experience somehow makes you better than your often younger fellow pilots, I have learnt a lot from pilots ranging early 20 something's through to your grey beards.
The million dollar question is though, how supportive is your partner? Living out in the bush can be a challenge.
Personally I say go for it! If you're spending that sorta cash I would consider getting a degree out it as week though, if you haven't got one already that is.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: QLD
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know plenty of pilots who have had full careers in the military, trades and started flight training in their late 20s and early 30s. I have found theses pilots are more motivated (generally) and have done very well for themselves.
GA can be very rewarding both financially and for some new life experiences. Accept you may have to travel and do some dirty work for a few years, but if you approach it with a good attitude you'll end up having the time of your life (much like my short career to date).
Bottom line, don't let the old GA grinches on pprune put you off! If you truly have the passion to follow through, go for it!
GA can be very rewarding both financially and for some new life experiences. Accept you may have to travel and do some dirty work for a few years, but if you approach it with a good attitude you'll end up having the time of your life (much like my short career to date).
Bottom line, don't let the old GA grinches on pprune put you off! If you truly have the passion to follow through, go for it!
There are plenty of people who won't be happy anywhere, and more than a few on this site, but if you can steel yourself for the "apprenticeship" phase for a couple of years where you will work hard, maybe flying old rubbish aircraft for next to no money, and somehow do it with some semblance of a smile on your face, you can earn more than enough even in GA. You just have to be creative with how you put a career together, and there are MANY different jobs out there.
If you happen to be one of the rare few who enjoy instructing and stick with it, you can earn good money going down the ATO or CFI path in an academy or university and keep a good lifestyle as well (9-5/ no weekends etc)
I've probably got the hours for the airlines, but I still very much enjoy my GA job for its hours, flexibility and the variety of work I do . I'm nowhere near the wages of the legacy airlines, but I'm more than comfortable, still have a lot of fun (not every bloody day tho) and I get to fly a lot of different types of aircraft which require a lot of hands on flying which I like.
I haven't said never to the airlines, but at this stage I'm still happy where I am.
If you happen to be one of the rare few who enjoy instructing and stick with it, you can earn good money going down the ATO or CFI path in an academy or university and keep a good lifestyle as well (9-5/ no weekends etc)
I've probably got the hours for the airlines, but I still very much enjoy my GA job for its hours, flexibility and the variety of work I do . I'm nowhere near the wages of the legacy airlines, but I'm more than comfortable, still have a lot of fun (not every bloody day tho) and I get to fly a lot of different types of aircraft which require a lot of hands on flying which I like.
I haven't said never to the airlines, but at this stage I'm still happy where I am.
Yes coastwatch and regionals can be good jobs once you get in. The problem is getting the experience to be able to get to the interview.
If you're single it's easily done, if you're taking wife and kids it becomes very difficult. You will have to figure out how you're are going to get somewhere near 1000 hours multi engine command.
Also worth noting there is very little expansion in the industry at the moment as a result jobs will be harder to get and the hour requirements will seem onerous.
Also worth pointing out that one day reality bites. All well and good living the dream but you have a family to support working shiftwork will wear out eventually. Aviation is not 9-5 and you are going to miss family stuff and things are going to difficult and you may have to be away. This is then compounded if you are struggling on the financial side if the costs of living keep getting out of control. The days of living in the country working for a regional are pretty much over. The cost of living in most RFDS bases are outrageous. Darwin is expensive. Most other people in these places will be getting paid twice your salary.
Everyone who I ever met who has said they only wanted to work in GA has either ended up in a major airline or quit. One guy ended up in the RFDS in his hometown but doesn't like the organisation because it has changed.
Mining charter may also be a sustainable avenue to pursue as a career.
If you're single it's easily done, if you're taking wife and kids it becomes very difficult. You will have to figure out how you're are going to get somewhere near 1000 hours multi engine command.
Also worth noting there is very little expansion in the industry at the moment as a result jobs will be harder to get and the hour requirements will seem onerous.
Also worth pointing out that one day reality bites. All well and good living the dream but you have a family to support working shiftwork will wear out eventually. Aviation is not 9-5 and you are going to miss family stuff and things are going to difficult and you may have to be away. This is then compounded if you are struggling on the financial side if the costs of living keep getting out of control. The days of living in the country working for a regional are pretty much over. The cost of living in most RFDS bases are outrageous. Darwin is expensive. Most other people in these places will be getting paid twice your salary.
Everyone who I ever met who has said they only wanted to work in GA has either ended up in a major airline or quit. One guy ended up in the RFDS in his hometown but doesn't like the organisation because it has changed.
Mining charter may also be a sustainable avenue to pursue as a career.
If you don't have the 100K in the bank ready to go I would strongly advise not going into that much debt if you already have a family to provide for. Who is going to pay the bills whilst your training? FEE Help approved
schools don't do part time or weekend courses so its a Monday to Friday 5 days a week gig.
If you manage to get through all that then there is the getting the first job hurdle. Unless you have contacts already I would bet that you will have to move away from where you live and I bet the Mrs and Kids won't be coming with you. This makes a relationship very difficult. The pay will be rubbish and not enough for you and your family to survive as well as paying your expenses.
Chase the dream but don't forget the reality of the industry right now. As a previous poster said its going nowhere fast.
Then there is the "lots of high paying GA jobs" brigade. That may be but no one is moving on from them and they are hell difficult to get in the first place. Everyone has a different opinion on the right course.
I would say if you didn't have to borrow the money then knock yourself out! Getting into that sort of debt for flight training when you have other responsibilities in my mind is more than a little dangerous.
schools don't do part time or weekend courses so its a Monday to Friday 5 days a week gig.
If you manage to get through all that then there is the getting the first job hurdle. Unless you have contacts already I would bet that you will have to move away from where you live and I bet the Mrs and Kids won't be coming with you. This makes a relationship very difficult. The pay will be rubbish and not enough for you and your family to survive as well as paying your expenses.
Chase the dream but don't forget the reality of the industry right now. As a previous poster said its going nowhere fast.
Then there is the "lots of high paying GA jobs" brigade. That may be but no one is moving on from them and they are hell difficult to get in the first place. Everyone has a different opinion on the right course.
I would say if you didn't have to borrow the money then knock yourself out! Getting into that sort of debt for flight training when you have other responsibilities in my mind is more than a little dangerous.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kerikeri, New Zealand or Noosa Queensland. Depending on the time of year!
Age: 83
Posts: 273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My dream has always been to complete my CPL and work in the aviation industry.
Convert your dream to a goal and do what ever is necessary to achieve it. You will only be limited by your own skills, determination, motivation and the preparedness to make sacrifices a long the way.
As one who has been there and done that, I can assure you that you won’t regret it.
You life is not a trial run; you get but one chance to live it to the fullest. At the end you do not want to end up regretting what might have been…
Code:
You life is not a trial run; you get but one chance to live it to the fullest. At the end you do not want to end up regretting what might have been…
Dreams are great for teenagers to follow. When you have to think about people other than yourself, they sometimes have to just remain dreams.
We don't all get to do what we want in life.
I may not be to popular here but if in 8 years you have not done more than 50 hours flying and have not completed your GFPT or any other studies towards a CPL then I would question whether you have the drive needed to 'compete' in this industry.
Laying down $100K to become an unemployed CPL is the easy bit!
I may have the wrong take on things here ( and my apologies if I have) but in any profession there has to be an enormous amount of enthusiasm to succeed yet you don't seem to be that driven in achieving your 'dream'
If you think you have that drive then jump in with both feet but be under no illusions, your commitment WILL be challenged MANY times along the way.
A great industry and I would not change one bit of my last 36 years.
Age 28 is not to late to start.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Laying down $100K to become an unemployed CPL is the easy bit!
I may have the wrong take on things here ( and my apologies if I have) but in any profession there has to be an enormous amount of enthusiasm to succeed yet you don't seem to be that driven in achieving your 'dream'
If you think you have that drive then jump in with both feet but be under no illusions, your commitment WILL be challenged MANY times along the way.
A great industry and I would not change one bit of my last 36 years.
Age 28 is not to late to start.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Bottums Up
Hmm, what to do?
Have a go and regret trying? Or, don't have a go and regret not trying? That's a recipe for depression if ever there was one.
30 years ago, a father of two, I followed the dream. I worked hard though didn't find it hard work, struggled - as did the family, and don't regret the choice. If I had my time over again, there's not much I'd change.
The industry is not hugely stable, nor does it pay any where near as much as most think. Advice given to me when I knew no better was not to do it. I'm glad that the conviction of my dream was such that I went ahead anyhow. Despite the downs, it's been a great 30 years and I suspect I'd be a bitter and twisted miserable bastard if I'd not given it a go.
The decision is yours. Eyes wide open!
Have a go and regret trying? Or, don't have a go and regret not trying? That's a recipe for depression if ever there was one.
30 years ago, a father of two, I followed the dream. I worked hard though didn't find it hard work, struggled - as did the family, and don't regret the choice. If I had my time over again, there's not much I'd change.
The industry is not hugely stable, nor does it pay any where near as much as most think. Advice given to me when I knew no better was not to do it. I'm glad that the conviction of my dream was such that I went ahead anyhow. Despite the downs, it's been a great 30 years and I suspect I'd be a bitter and twisted miserable bastard if I'd not given it a go.
The decision is yours. Eyes wide open!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again, thanks for all the replies.
I certainly agree that not everyone gets what they hoped for out of life, but in a lot of cases, this might be due to a lack of trying....
Thankfully, I'm now in a position with my current employer where I can work flexible hours on a part-time basis, and whilst I know it will be a challenge, completing the training whilst working is still achievable.
The cost factor is huge, but given the pay that is likely in GA, I probably won't even get close to the FEE-HELP repayment threshold, at least for a few years anyway.
I certainly agree that not everyone gets what they hoped for out of life, but in a lot of cases, this might be due to a lack of trying....
Thankfully, I'm now in a position with my current employer where I can work flexible hours on a part-time basis, and whilst I know it will be a challenge, completing the training whilst working is still achievable.
The cost factor is huge, but given the pay that is likely in GA, I probably won't even get close to the FEE-HELP repayment threshold, at least for a few years anyway.