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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

Old 1st Feb 2022, 00:43
  #861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: BNE, Australia
Posts: 303
Short answer is if you want to fly around Australia you'll want a PPL. RPL has cross country endorsements but realistically there are too many restrictions to make it a practical choice to circumnavigate the country.
chuboy is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2022, 00:50
  #862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Aus
Posts: 103
Welcome.

1. In short, there are three licence types common to recreational flyers:

The first is RA-Aus certificate, which is not issued by CASA. It is a cheaper way to learn to fly but there are some restrictions. You are limited to one passenger. Not recognised internationally either. RA-Aus are a self-administering body that you have to be a member of.

The second is the CASA Part 61 RPL. It is similar to a PPL, but with some restrictions. It is also, as far as I'm aware, not recognised internationally. So if you wanted to fly in the USA they don't recognise this licence type.

The third is the CASA Part 61 PPL. The minimum hours required is higher than an RPL, but the privileges are greater. If you fly internationally it will be recognised as a private licence equivalent.

Your goal of flying around Australia can be done on any of the above types, although you will need navigation, controlled airport, and controlled airspace endorsements unless you hold a PPL.

2. You sure can. You don't need to do the RPL theory exam or flight test if you then go on to do the PPL theory exam and flight test, although the minimum aeronautical experience to sit the PPL flight test is higher than the RPL.

3. Google is your friend. Avoid anywhere where you have to pay up front. Interview the flight instructor and if you're not happy, don't spend your money there - it's a lot, after all!If you're on the northside, I'd strongly recommend the ~1 hour drive to Central Coast Aero Club - uncrowded airspace, good fleet, experienced instructors.

4. Your age is no problem. Don't give up on your career dreams either! Whilst it doesn't get any easier with age, many people have changed careers in the late thirties, fourties, and later to fly professionally. It can be done, it's just a slog. But you also bring life experience which many very young, very green CPL grads lack...

Good luck!
MagnumPI is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2022, 01:34
  #863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 74
Originally Posted by MagnumPI View Post
Avoid anywhere where you have to pay up front. Interview the flight instructor and if you're not happy, don't spend your money there - it's a lot, after all! If you're on the northside, I'd strongly recommend the ~1 hour drive to Central Coast Aero Club - uncrowded airspace, good fleet, experienced instructors.
I would strongly agree with the first part of this. Avoid paying up front like the plague. So many stories over the years of people losing their money as schools go bust. PAYG might end up marginally more expensive, but that's preferable to losing a big wad of cash.

But I would respectfully disagree with the last part. Learning at a busy capital city airport like Bankstown sets you up well to handle busy / complex airspace and procedures for the future. If you're planning to travel around the country you will inevitably come across these scenarios and having spent all your training time in that environment will make you a lot more comfortable. I fully appreciate the points Magnum has made but from my own experience, think Bankstown would be a better bet. All a matter of opinion though.

Best of luck though. Learning to fly is a fantastic experience.

Flyer517 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2022, 02:02
  #864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Aus
Posts: 103
Flyer517, I'm glad we can have a healthy debate.

I've flown in/at BK plenty of times on navexes.

I think the downside to Bankstown is that you often spend far too long waiting on the ground. For the benefit of the OP, if the engine is on - you're paying! Long wait times at the holding point are problematic.

I agree that getting comfortable in CTA at a busy class D is not necessarily a bad thing. That said, I find it amusing how many people who have learned to fly at a Class D airfield struggle when they go to a busy CTAF!
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Old 1st Feb 2022, 07:47
  #865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 395
If you are closer to south side of Sydney, Camden is a good option. It is class D so you get CTA experience but the aerodrome is in the middle of the training area so it minimises transit time and typical taxi/hold times are usually much shorter than Bankstown.

When checking schools, visit and see how comfortable you are with them and perhaps book a TIF (trial instructional flight) to give them a try. One bit of advice I would also give, if a school asks for pre-payment for training or offer fixed price training, be wary.

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Old 2nd Feb 2022, 01:29
  #866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: N/A
Posts: 4,484
One bit of advice I would also give, if a school asks for pre-payment for training or offer fixed price training, be wary
Don't even consider payment up front, no matter how attractive the deal. Off spring was at a school in Port Macquarie where such a deal was offered for an instrument rating, no thanks, company closed its doors within weeks, bar stewards were still cashing the cheques of those they had conned on the day they declared bankruptcy. Shortly before closure off spring had done some local flying at home in one of the schools aircraft, made arrangements with the local refueller (aero club) that I would honour any fuel costs incurred that they couldn't recover, and it came to pass. Wish I had they same foresight in picking the lotto numbers.
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Old 9th Feb 2022, 00:55
  #867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1
Which path to take?

Hi all. New here and hoping I've found a new online home!

I am just about to (re)start on my piloting journey and am trying to decide whether to jump straight in onto a CPL path or stick with the PPL path. Deciding to do my CPL now, at the beginning, would work out a little cheaper in the long run.

My main goal, like anyone here I'd imagine, is to just be in the air as much as possible. I don't necessarily want to become a commercial pilot but I do want to find any reason I can to be flying once I have my licence.

I know that I can buy a share in a plane and/or hire one once I have my licence but would it be more economical to go with my CPL and get a part time job that would involve flying?

I know that most answers will be opinion based but its those opinions based on experience that will help me decide. Thanks in advance
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Old 25th Feb 2022, 01:19
  #868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Sydney Flight School recommendations

Hi, newbie here,
I'm 51 and an interested in getting RPL or PPL on weekends for just recreational purposes.
I live in Sydney's east so Bankstown would be my closest option - could consider Camden, but is is nearly 90mins away.
Please offer up your recommendations for flight schools and anything else I should consider along the way, such any medical issues for my age etc
I'm happy with PM's or replies here - what ever is most appropriate.
nice to be part of this community - thanks
reynos
reynos is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2022, 17:39
  #869 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 25
Hi folks,

So I have read what feels like a million posts trying to determine what the best flight schools are in the Melbourne/ Vic area.

They have all meshed into some sort of abstract art in my head and unfortunately some of the posts are older and no longer relevant.

Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA. We then have the degree options with RMIT, Swinburne (CAE) and CQU (MFS). Learn to Fly seem to have a good program and a new partnership with Griffith University but some older posts have not exactly rated them highly. Anyone recently experienced these schools and have any thoughts?


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Old 8th Mar 2022, 23:47
  #870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: YMML
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Chopz View Post
Hi folks,

So I have read what feels like a million posts trying to determine what the best flight schools are in the Melbourne/ Vic area.

They have all meshed into some sort of abstract art in my head and unfortunately some of the posts are older and no longer relevant.

Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA. We then have the degree options with RMIT, Swinburne (CAE) and CQU (MFS). Learn to Fly seem to have a good program and a new partnership with Griffith University but some older posts have not exactly rated them highly. Anyone recently experienced these schools and have any thoughts?
Learn to fly would be the best option out of the others. New and modernised fleet, good instructors and a great environment to be in. Something you could try do is a TIF at the school and see how you feel with instructors.
thisishardtochoose is offline  
Old 9th Mar 2022, 03:54
  #871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: AYQ
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by Chopz View Post
Could someone shed some light on schools that offer Vet Fee-Help for CPL Diploma courses? The current options seem to be Learn to Fly, RVAC and AAPA.
From what I understand LTF have only just recently started offering fee help loans, and the course descriptor on their website doesn't mention what aircraft you'll be flying. So while all the pictures in the brochure show the DA40/42 I suspect you'll find yourself in the 172s and Seminoles. RVAC is quite well regarded but their fleet is on the older side, and they're more expensive than LTF. AAPA are up in Wagga so a bit harder to compare directly.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 08:33
  #872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: YMML
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by ajax58 View Post
From what I understand LTF have only just recently started offering fee help loans, and the course descriptor on their website doesn't mention what aircraft you'll be flying. So while all the pictures in the brochure show the DA40/42 I suspect you'll find yourself in the 172s and Seminoles. RVAC is quite well regarded but their fleet is on the older side, and they're more expensive than LTF. AAPA are up in Wagga so a bit harder to compare directly.
The fleet will be DA40/42.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:04
  #873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 25
Hi Ajax,

I spoke to LTF and you can choose which aircraft to learn in.

AAPA also have a school at Ballarat which runs their Diploma course however online information seems a little vague.
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Old 10th Mar 2022, 22:04
  #874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 39
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by reynos View Post
Hi, newbie here,
I'm 51 and an interested in getting RPL or PPL on weekends for just recreational purposes.
I live in Sydney's east so Bankstown would be my closest option - could consider Camden, but is is nearly 90mins away.
Please offer up your recommendations for flight schools and anything else I should consider along the way, such any medical issues for my age etc
I'm happy with PM's or replies here - what ever is most appropriate.
nice to be part of this community - thanks
reynos
Hi Reynos,

I am almost in the same boat and scouting for schools. Can I PM you and maybe we can pursue it together. We might end up negotiating a better deal on training plus can support each other along the way.
Please let me know.

Thank you,
Kind regards.
Prashant
roger7060 is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2022, 22:10
  #875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 39
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by MagnumPI View Post
Welcome.

1. In short, there are three licence types common to recreational flyers:

The first is RA-Aus certificate, which is not issued by CASA. It is a cheaper way to learn to fly but there are some restrictions. You are limited to one passenger. Not recognised internationally either. RA-Aus are a self-administering body that you have to be a member of.

The second is the CASA Part 61 RPL. It is similar to a PPL, but with some restrictions. It is also, as far as I'm aware, not recognised internationally. So if you wanted to fly in the USA they don't recognise this licence type.

The third is the CASA Part 61 PPL. The minimum hours required is higher than an RPL, but the privileges are greater. If you fly internationally it will be recognised as a private licence equivalent.

Your goal of flying around Australia can be done on any of the above types, although you will need navigation, controlled airport, and controlled airspace endorsements unless you hold a PPL.

2. You sure can. You don't need to do the RPL theory exam or flight test if you then go on to do the PPL theory exam and flight test, although the minimum aeronautical experience to sit the PPL flight test is higher than the RPL.

3. Google is your friend. Avoid anywhere where you have to pay up front. Interview the flight instructor and if you're not happy, don't spend your money there - it's a lot, after all!If you're on the northside, I'd strongly recommend the ~1 hour drive to Central Coast Aero Club - uncrowded airspace, good fleet, experienced instructors.

4. Your age is no problem. Don't give up on your career dreams either! Whilst it doesn't get any easier with age, many people have changed careers in the late thirties, fourties, and later to fly professionally. It can be done, it's just a slog. But you also bring life experience which many very young, very green CPL grads lack...

Good luck!
Hi Magnum,

Apologies for the late reply.
Thank you so much for such detailed reply. It is really helpful.
I have booked an introductory flight from Sydney Flying Academy to get a feel of the things. Will surely check out Central Coast Aero Club. I am in western Sydney so need to factor in the travel time.

roger7060 is offline  
Old 2nd Apr 2022, 04:43
  #876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3
I don't want to set myself up for failure

Hi all,
I'm currently a Yr 12 HSC student in North Sydney wishing to have a career in aviation. I don't plan on going down the uni route, instead of going through an integrated course like that offered at Basair (YSBK) and others and eventually finishing with a commercial multi. From what I've read, however, the VET FEE programs can have some pitfalls alongside the general shambles of the industry in Australia at the moment from the impossibility of having any prospect of a job as a freshly popped wet CPL, I don't want to dive headfirst into the school and be subject to crippling debt.

I do have an advantage however in that I have dual citizenship (AU and US) and have family over there. I've also seen a few random threads mentioning US regionals wanting overseas pilots to join on the E-3 program and FAA license conversion. While that seems promising, I'm aware of the state of the wages and the onslaught of working in US regionals.

On the whole, I just want to know if it is worthwhile to wait for a period while the situation recovers here, and generate savings to contribute towards the commercial multi rating and eventually start some form of work in Oz, and do I have more realistic career prospects and opportunities in the US?

I'm well aware of the brutal and competitive nature of the aviation industry and its current shambles. I also understand the risks associated with a commitment to a future in it, and that is not a short process, and I can't expect any opportunities straight away. I do have other plans if it ends up not working out beforehand. However, I feel that an opportunity is still present in my ability to work in the US and the fact I will still be a reasonable age within a few years while the industry recovers somewhat to find occupation.

Any perspectives are appreciated

Thanks
Qantas331 is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2022, 05:49
  #877 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Melb Vic
Posts: 47
You're young, so thats good for starters, If you can as you say, go to the US and enjoy all things Aviation. America is pro-aviation, OZ not so much.
Big tip=Always have another income source if possible. Dont forget that.
Andy_G is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2022, 05:56
  #878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sydney
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by Andy_G View Post
You're young, so thats good for starters, If you can as you say, go to the US and enjoy all things Aviation. America is pro-aviation, OZ not so much.
Big tip=Always have another income source if possible. Dont forget that.
Thanks, really appreciate the input

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Qantas331 is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2022, 09:17
  #879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lower North Shore
Posts: 215
Tried to PM back - you'll need to clear some inbox space.
Brakerider is offline  
Old 31st May 2022, 00:51
  #880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Hi all,

Planning to learn PPL for leisure purposes in Sydney. Want to know how practical it is to fly for weekend trips to, for example, to visit the Dubbo zoo for 2 or 3 days.

The wife thinks I am just gonna waste money on learning it then never gonna ever use it again. I too have this concern as my original goal is to take the family or friends on cross country flights. But after the trial flight, I realised that flying small planes cross-country would not be any enjoyment for passengers unless it's a nicer/more expensive plane with aircon and more cabin spaces etc. Obviously, it is still doable to hire a better plane and plan for stops but don't see this happening a lot, likely tops once in 2, 3 years.

So a more practical use of the PPL would be to replace driving trips that are a bit long, like over 4/5 hours, such as going to the Dubbo zoo or the Snowy mountains. Then I started to actually think it through, and realised it is probably not that practical too:

1. Our place in Sydney to Bankstown airport is about 40 minutes drive with no traffic at all
2. We need to hire an aircraft. Did some searches, looks like a Cessna 152 costs around 350 per hour (wet), and a nicer 172 would be around 500 per hour. From other threads, it doesn't seem that easier to find airplanes to hire unless joining clubs/memberships etc but those add other overheads. I guess the market is not mature enough like renting cars.
3. We need to find a place to park our car at Bankstown airport. I guess it would cost money for secure parking since it's gonna be 3, 4 days.
4. The flight to Dubbo obviously is not gonna be a straight line, I am a newbie and just used some online tools, more realistically it's gonna be a 2 hours plus flight.
5. When we get to Dubbo, we need to rent a car to travel around. And maybe pay for the airplane parking? And pay for the plane while we are at Dubbo? I am not sure about this part.

So the rough total cost of flying there and back would be 1500+ for a simple plane and 2500+ for a nicer plane. I checked out the Qantas link flight tickets, during non-peak time, it's just 600 returns for 3 people.

Obviously, it's a private flying flight so it is meant to cost more but I just find it a hard sell to the wife... Am I correct about the above assumptions? Could anyone share some personal experiences, please?
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