Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Victoria
Flight Schools Moorabin - Diploma of Aviation
Hi all,
Just seeking some advice about some reputable flight schools in Moorabin which offer VET-FEE Help to complete a diploma of Aviation.
I've tried a TIF and will be booking in another one shortly, but just wanted to gain some insight on schools if were to pursue it.
If anyone is also able to provide clarification around the general pathway for jobs upon completion of the diploma. Do the flight schools assist with the transition/provide networking or is it generally just do your own thing upon completion?
Thanks in advance.
Just seeking some advice about some reputable flight schools in Moorabin which offer VET-FEE Help to complete a diploma of Aviation.
I've tried a TIF and will be booking in another one shortly, but just wanted to gain some insight on schools if were to pursue it.
If anyone is also able to provide clarification around the general pathway for jobs upon completion of the diploma. Do the flight schools assist with the transition/provide networking or is it generally just do your own thing upon completion?
Thanks in advance.
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Uni vs Flight School?
G'day!
In a few months I will be finishing Year 12 and I am wondering what I should do next, whether I should go to University or a flight school.
In University of New South Wales, a Bachelor of Aviation (Flying) degree costs 133k AUD.
Whereas, some flight schools offer the same course for 75-85k.
So, what's up with that? Is there any reason to pay an additional 48-58 thousand dollars? I understand that the University provides a degree, but just how useful is it?
P.S. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person who asked this question, but I wasn't able to find any concrete information.
In a few months I will be finishing Year 12 and I am wondering what I should do next, whether I should go to University or a flight school.
In University of New South Wales, a Bachelor of Aviation (Flying) degree costs 133k AUD.
For 2019 commencement students, it is $133,500 for the basic course, which results in a Commercial Pilot Licence and Instrument Rating – Multi Engine Aeroplane.
So, what's up with that? Is there any reason to pay an additional 48-58 thousand dollars? I understand that the University provides a degree, but just how useful is it?
P.S. I'm pretty sure I'm not the first person who asked this question, but I wasn't able to find any concrete information.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 319
Likes: 39
From: Sydney
cost comparison
Check out the fine print to see what you get.
I am fairly sure that you get CPL, all ATPL theory, instrument rating, with all theory exams and flight tests included at UNSW. You also get all your theory manuals, and an initial set of CASA documents. In other words all costs unless you overfly or fail tests or exams. I am not sure about Multi Crew training. Best to ask them. Also they have a top cohort of full time theory and flight instructors. The UNSW reputation is very high, and the aircraft and simulators in great shape.
There is an Open Day at UNSW flight Ops Bankstown Airport on 21 Sept 1000 to 1200.
The cheap prices usually do not cover anything other than a very limited amount of flying, and are done with casual flying instructors who only earn a set amount per flight. If you need to spend more time discussing issues with them they don't get paid. Also there can be a huge difference in approach from different instructors as they are often not standardised across the School. You will find there are always extra costs, such as theory classes, exams and tests, landing fees, reference materials and charts, CASR, AIP etc.
Do your research. What appears to be cheap may not be either cheap or good quality!
Seabreeze
I am fairly sure that you get CPL, all ATPL theory, instrument rating, with all theory exams and flight tests included at UNSW. You also get all your theory manuals, and an initial set of CASA documents. In other words all costs unless you overfly or fail tests or exams. I am not sure about Multi Crew training. Best to ask them. Also they have a top cohort of full time theory and flight instructors. The UNSW reputation is very high, and the aircraft and simulators in great shape.
There is an Open Day at UNSW flight Ops Bankstown Airport on 21 Sept 1000 to 1200.
The cheap prices usually do not cover anything other than a very limited amount of flying, and are done with casual flying instructors who only earn a set amount per flight. If you need to spend more time discussing issues with them they don't get paid. Also there can be a huge difference in approach from different instructors as they are often not standardised across the School. You will find there are always extra costs, such as theory classes, exams and tests, landing fees, reference materials and charts, CASR, AIP etc.
Do your research. What appears to be cheap may not be either cheap or good quality!
Seabreeze
Last edited by Seabreeze; 2nd September 2019 at 02:50.
Dunnunda Fleet Manager
Joined: Jan 1996
Posts: 8,203
Likes: 887
From: Utopia
megab22.
Your last post not long ago indicated: "I am currently in year 9 finishing year 10."
Fine to dream and plan but I think you should focused on Years 11 and 12 if you hope for an airline flying career?
Your last post not long ago indicated: "I am currently in year 9 finishing year 10."
Fine to dream and plan but I think you should focused on Years 11 and 12 if you hope for an airline flying career?
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 37
Likes: 12
From: G.S.L.
Air Fraser Jobs
Hi all,
Wondering if anyone could share any information about Air Fraser's hiring of pilots. Their fleet looks welcoming to green fingers (they even have a 172) but with the culture of being "GA READY" I'm wondering what the habits of the CP/Hiring Manager are. Do they want 206 time? Will they take 200 hour pilots? What's the chief pilot/Gerry like? Will they take an email with a resume?
Thanks
Wondering if anyone could share any information about Air Fraser's hiring of pilots. Their fleet looks welcoming to green fingers (they even have a 172) but with the culture of being "GA READY" I'm wondering what the habits of the CP/Hiring Manager are. Do they want 206 time? Will they take 200 hour pilots? What's the chief pilot/Gerry like? Will they take an email with a resume?
Thanks
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 358
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Thats what I would respect as a business owner...
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Cairns
MECIR locations for Mel and Adelaide
I have a PPL license and have recently passed my IREX exam. I wanted to travel to Melbourne or Adelaide and complete a MECIR and multi engine rating. I will be paying as I go. Would anyone be able to offer recommendations on places that offer a comprehensive IFR courses.
I have heard that FTA in Adelaide offer a very comprehensive course but I wasn't sure if doing it in a DA42 will be a disadvantage for flying twins after and going back to steam gauges.
I have heard that FTA in Adelaide offer a very comprehensive course but I wasn't sure if doing it in a DA42 will be a disadvantage for flying twins after and going back to steam gauges.
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: YMML
I did my MECIR with FTA in Adelaide, can't recommend then highly enough, they are more airline focused with extensive focus on the SOP's and procedures. If you want to fly steam gauges in GA then look no further than Peter Bini flying school at YMMB. Probably the best MECIR provider at YMMB. At the end of the day it just depends on what you want, so why not chat to both and see what suits best for you!
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Cairns
As I have no experience with real IFR to go from full glass back to steam does it face a disadvantage? Because I feel it would be similar cost to do it in a DA42 as apossed to a steam twin which are very common. But it would be easier to learn glass now and cheaper as not many full glass cockpits are around. Then when i need to do my review just do it in a steam gauge. But I'm worried about jumping in a barron after a DA42 and feeling overwhelmed or undertrained. Any suggestions or real life experience about these problems would be awesome?
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Failed the IREX :(
Ok folks - I attempted the IREX and scored 63% .. now in my defence, I wasn't really ready and did try rescheduling but it was too late so I decided to go in and attempt it anyway - I self-studied for around 10 days using ATC"s book and attempted some of Bob Tait's exams - I passed (70-80 range) 3 of his exams and failed two ... I don't wanna lose confidence and am motivated to study harder but just wanted to ask others how much did they spend time studying (P/T or F/T) before they passed it? I have finished attempting all of Bob Tait's exams and have averaged in the 70's on 4 of them (out of 7) I'm also thinking of purchasing Rob Avery's question bank...any other tips?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 284
Likes: 23
From: Australia
AvGeek7 - given the required mark is 70%, you need to aim higher that that. If you're getting less than 90s in the practice, you're probably not ready. And practice under exam conditions and time limits.
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
From: Currently: A landlocked country with high terrain, otherwise Melbourne, Australia + Washington D.C.
Sorry to read that you flunked the IREX. Don't take it to heart too much, it's a tough one. If you're acknowledging that your preparation was haphazard, then leave it at that and try again. I put two weeks almost full time into it before I felt that my sanity was taking a hit. That's when I concluded that I wouldn't be any more ready to take it.
In hindsight, knowing the AIP backwards and the front and back parts of ERSA proved the very helpful. There were probably 10 ridiculously straightforward, instant questions in my exam that solely tested your ability to navigate your documents/charts and extract the relevant information. I dedicated most of my time on alternate and fuel questions, most of which involved decoding the TAF/TTF and making sure that I was not missing the obvious. The other questions that took a bit of thinking were those on approach plates (MDA, DA, what to do if you don't see the runway environment, etc...).
I think that the exam is designed around the assumption that you should be able to get all those "easy" points (drift, track error, finding things in the documents, the expected emergency-type questions) plus around half of the more involved ones to get a pass.
Regarding Bob Tait's book: Other than the questions at the end and the brain teaser ADF/VOR chapter, I found the other parts to be somewhat lacking structure which made it harder for me to grasp the "spirit" of it all (I self-studied which probably didn't help for something as thick and ill-defined as IFR). I'm not saying it's a badly written book but for a casual VFR private pilot with close to no exposure to the IFR realm, I found the book a bit dry. If I have one regret though, it's delaying reading the actual AIP (RTFM, if you know what this means). Surprisingly, I found it to be quite concise and in fact rather to the point without much ado.
I also solved around 450 questions: those in Bob's book, 4 sample exams on Bob's site and 4 in Rob Avery's book.
Lastly, if I was to have a second regret, it's not heeding my IF instructor's advice when she suggested that I take a look at the sample IREX questions on CASA's website. Truly that was one of the poorer decisions I made in life because I had them open in one of the billion browser tabs and it wasn't until after taking the exam that I took a read. I was stunned to find 5-6 of the very same questions that were asked in the IREX. No drama but I could have saved precious time.
In hindsight, knowing the AIP backwards and the front and back parts of ERSA proved the very helpful. There were probably 10 ridiculously straightforward, instant questions in my exam that solely tested your ability to navigate your documents/charts and extract the relevant information. I dedicated most of my time on alternate and fuel questions, most of which involved decoding the TAF/TTF and making sure that I was not missing the obvious. The other questions that took a bit of thinking were those on approach plates (MDA, DA, what to do if you don't see the runway environment, etc...).
I think that the exam is designed around the assumption that you should be able to get all those "easy" points (drift, track error, finding things in the documents, the expected emergency-type questions) plus around half of the more involved ones to get a pass.
Regarding Bob Tait's book: Other than the questions at the end and the brain teaser ADF/VOR chapter, I found the other parts to be somewhat lacking structure which made it harder for me to grasp the "spirit" of it all (I self-studied which probably didn't help for something as thick and ill-defined as IFR). I'm not saying it's a badly written book but for a casual VFR private pilot with close to no exposure to the IFR realm, I found the book a bit dry. If I have one regret though, it's delaying reading the actual AIP (RTFM, if you know what this means). Surprisingly, I found it to be quite concise and in fact rather to the point without much ado.
I also solved around 450 questions: those in Bob's book, 4 sample exams on Bob's site and 4 in Rob Avery's book.
Lastly, if I was to have a second regret, it's not heeding my IF instructor's advice when she suggested that I take a look at the sample IREX questions on CASA's website. Truly that was one of the poorer decisions I made in life because I had them open in one of the billion browser tabs and it wasn't until after taking the exam that I took a read. I was stunned to find 5-6 of the very same questions that were asked in the IREX. No drama but I could have saved precious time.
Joined: Jun 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,574
Likes: 410
From: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Passing with only 70% means there’s an lot you don’t know. That will come back to bite you when you get to the flying stage. It will cost you $$$. You need to understand the subject, not just pass the exam. 
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Hey mate - cheers for the detailed reply .. I think I screwed up a couple of questions by misreading height v/s altitude when reviewing the plates (These seemingly minor differences can easily mean the diff between passing and failing) ..fuel calculations based on the TAF/TTF can be a tease .but I think I was ok on those ..Strangely, my major trouble areas seems to be around recency requirements and equipment needed for IFR CHarter vs Pvt etc .. One of my questions on recency contained options such as '85 days vs 45 days - I had never seen a question like that across Bob Tait's sets) ..
Anyway, I think I'm going to get further engrossed in the AIP and do Bob Tait's questions at the back of his book and chapters .. I'm also considering joining a theory course at my local school
Anyway, I think I'm going to get further engrossed in the AIP and do Bob Tait's questions at the back of his book and chapters .. I'm also considering joining a theory course at my local school
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 284
Likes: 23
From: Australia
Unlike most other exams, IREX is about what will keep you alive. Confusing altitude v height on an approach will kill you. And turning up somewhere without enough fuel to wait-out the weather - that will kill you too. Flying the approach wrong, or out of tolerance ... that will kill you. Descending below LSA on a dark night surrounded by hills - now that will kill you! So IREX is much more than just "know the stuff". When you're flying an approach in IMC with no auto-pilot, you'll be busy just doing the right thing - no time to check if it really is the right thing.
Think I'm exaggerating? It's easy enough to find approaches that miss mountains and towers by only a few hundred metres laterally, and a couple of hundred feet vertically. The Canberra VOR and Mudgee NDB come to mind. Get it wrong and we'll see your mess on the news.
IREX is open book - so you should make a note of anything you're uncertain about, and use the time at the end to check uncertain questions against AIP, ERSA etc. (That's what the scrap paper is for, noting things to go back to
) And anyone who walks out of an IREX exam before the time limit, they are just throwing away marks!! Use all the time they give you. Same when you come to your ATPLs.
Think I'm exaggerating? It's easy enough to find approaches that miss mountains and towers by only a few hundred metres laterally, and a couple of hundred feet vertically. The Canberra VOR and Mudgee NDB come to mind. Get it wrong and we'll see your mess on the news.
IREX is open book - so you should make a note of anything you're uncertain about, and use the time at the end to check uncertain questions against AIP, ERSA etc. (That's what the scrap paper is for, noting things to go back to
) And anyone who walks out of an IREX exam before the time limit, they are just throwing away marks!! Use all the time they give you. Same when you come to your ATPLs.
Last edited by drpixie; 6th October 2019 at 04:53. Reason: example
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Sydney
Hey guys,
I'm a 28-year-old looking to change their career. Is anybody able to recommend a flying school in Sydney / Bankstown? To be honest I'm almost a complete newbie when it comes to flying (took a test flight many years ago). Would be hoping to get my CPL or higher within the next two years.
I had looked at SOAR aviation but I've only heard bad things about them. Other schools that I've researched seem to be okay but I would be looking to do part-time if possible.
I'm a 28-year-old looking to change their career. Is anybody able to recommend a flying school in Sydney / Bankstown? To be honest I'm almost a complete newbie when it comes to flying (took a test flight many years ago). Would be hoping to get my CPL or higher within the next two years.
I had looked at SOAR aviation but I've only heard bad things about them. Other schools that I've researched seem to be okay but I would be looking to do part-time if possible.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 48
Likes: 3
From: Australia
Good points drpixie.
I always remember flying the Ballarat NDB approach one dirty night (when the NDB was still there). No RMI, raw ADF. Didn't get visual, but I could see the glow of the city lights through the cloud! Really drives home just how close you are to obstacles in IMC. Some towers in the area are only a few hundred feet below, and being above sea level altitude and height are not nice round numbers. I really flew the tracks and numbers and was double checking. Extra vigilance that night. No room for errors!
I always remember flying the Ballarat NDB approach one dirty night (when the NDB was still there). No RMI, raw ADF. Didn't get visual, but I could see the glow of the city lights through the cloud! Really drives home just how close you are to obstacles in IMC. Some towers in the area are only a few hundred feet below, and being above sea level altitude and height are not nice round numbers. I really flew the tracks and numbers and was double checking. Extra vigilance that night. No room for errors!