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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

Old 31st May 2019, 05:58
  #621 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: close to nowhere
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Who would like to blow 150k with no guarantee of a job afterwards just because of the "Qantas" brand on the flight school? It is no different to any of the other integrated flight schools throughout the country so, my question is, what is the specific value proposition offered by the Wellcamp facility over any other flight school?
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Old 31st May 2019, 06:18
  #622 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by TempoTCu View Post
Who would like to blow 150k with no guarantee of a job afterwards just because of the "Qantas" brand on the flight school? It is no different to any of the other integrated flight schools throughout the country so, my question is, what is the specific value proposition offered by the Wellcamp facility over any other flight school?
The high probability if you want to work for Australia's biggest airline group your best shot will be through this academy. Whilst some non academy pilots will be employed into the group if the need arises with the numbers they're talking I'd imagine the vast bulk of the group's pilots will come from this institution.

Not every graduate will get a job straight away, some may get to the end of their course and find that business conditions have caused recruitment to stop temporarily. But then no GA or military pilot will be getting employed either. And when recruitment is ongoing I'd assume these academy graduates will be first priority.

You could save some money by training at another school (but with the cost these days not that much more), and you'd be hunting for a job elsewhere to build up the experience then applying in the hope that the airline has a need to recruit pilots from outside the academy. And being further back in Seniority. The slightly higher price of the academy would be outweighed by the long term career benefits..

Virgin is doing a similar thing with their academy in Tamworth. We are going to have a fundamental shift in how the two airline groups in Australia select and employ their pilots over the next few years.

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Old 31st May 2019, 06:32
  #623 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Fair call. It is still a gamble as to whether you would get a job at the end - I think interest would be a lot higher if the Qantas stance was "you'll get a job as long as you meet our standards". My concern lies in whether Qantas is just using this for revenue and with a desire to pump out as many graduates as possible with no concern for whether roles exist in the company or not. I know this is no different to every other flight school, and I also know there is no guarantee of a job at the end of any type of pilot training regardless of how you get there. Just dont want to be taken for a ride and trying to avoid the "come here because we have the name Qantas on the front of our building (but you probably wont get a job afterwards because we only have 50 positions and 1000 of you to chose from)".
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Old 31st May 2019, 07:08
  #624 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by TempoTCu View Post
Fair call. It is still a gamble as to whether you would get a job at the end - I think interest would be a lot higher if the Qantas stance was "you'll get a job as long as you meet our standards". My concern lies in whether Qantas is just using this for revenue and with a desire to pump out as many graduates as possible with no concern for whether roles exist in the company or not. I know this is no different to every other flight school, and I also know there is no guarantee of a job at the end of any type of pilot training regardless of how you get there. Just dont want to be taken for a ride and trying to avoid the "come here because we have the name Qantas on the front of our building (but you probably wont get a job afterwards because we only have 50 positions and 1000 of you to chose from)".
I believe the money goes to FTA, not the airline.

And if there are more graduates than positions, then even more so the reason to go to the academy. That means zero traditionally GA background pilots will be taken at all, as I'd assume all available positions would be filled by academy graduates.

The most probable scenario (I'd say 95%) in this circumstance is that you get a job within the group upon graduation. The worst case is that you graduate and there are no jobs available, but then you're really no worse off than any other GA trained pilot, and you'll have the benefit of being known to the group so when recruitment starts up again you'll have one foot in the door above anyone who went through GA.

With about 800-1000 CPL's (a large number for foreign students who won't work here professionally) issued in Australia every year, and this Academy ultimately gearing up to take several hundred graduates per year, and Virgin's academy accounting a large number as well, (and not to forget Rex's school in Wagga) the majority of professional pilot training in the country will be done via these academies. The real threat will be for every other flying school in the country, unfortunately a lot of these long standing schools will be closing down.

I think young people would be willing to pay the extra fees to have a more guaranteed shot at an immediate start with a major airline, rather than the "get your CPL and hunt for a job yourself" mentality.

I know this is no different to every other flight school
There is a difference in the big academies like FTA and a normal run of the mill local flying school. They may issue you with the same licence, but the standard of the candidate will be one who can start employment as an airline pilot upon graduation, which is why major airlines select schools like these and not the Bonnie Doon Aero Club to deliver their course.
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Old 31st May 2019, 09:42
  #625 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
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“Bonnie Doon Aero Club”. Feel the serenity....😂
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Old 31st May 2019, 11:29
  #626 (permalink)  
 
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Dr Dre,

If you read the latest information that’s not what is being stated at all. I have to say I’m surprised at how transparent they are about disconnecting the ‘academy’ with the group at all. There’s also no cadet program so you go there and pay your money to learn how to fly then after you can opt to “keep in touch”.

I, like you assumed they they would at least BS more about it.
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Old 31st May 2019, 13:00
  #627 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by Jeps View Post
Dr Dre,

If you read the latest information that’s not what is being stated at all. I have to say I’m surprised at how transparent they are about disconnecting the ‘academy’ with the group at all. There’s also no cadet program so you go there and pay your money to learn how to fly then after you can opt to “keep in touch”.

I, like you assumed they they would at least BS more about it.
Actually on second reading I think you may be on the right track.

It’s still a bit vague on what will happen post course, maybe it’ll be cleared up in the coming months but there is scant info out there on the current info.

One thing is for sure, youngsters are pretty clued on and connected these days, so unless a more guaranteed path is established in fact, and real advantages are shown to be had by going through this academy, then youngsters will probably turn their gaze elsewhere. At least the other programs (Rex, JQ, VA) have a more defined route into the airline post course.

Having said that, given the purpose of the academy is to establish more direct control over the pilot supply pipeline I would predict they would establish a direct pathway into the group, lest their trainees be poached by other carriers.
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Old 31st May 2019, 22:23
  #628 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Surely the lack of a specific thread on PPRuNe titled "qantas acadamy wannabes" (or something of the sort) is indicative of the interest in it...... (Lack of)
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Old 31st May 2019, 23:02
  #629 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Oh what a terrible company & what a terrible thing they are doing

Setting up a cadetship where you go direct from flying flying school to Qlink or another group airline

It is outrageous conduct by Qantas , because they do not give you an ironclad guarantee of employment which should be the industry standard

It is of course normal practice in other areas and best practice to give all of those who enter the school house an ironclad guarantee of employment in the workplace

This conduct is nearly as outrageous as the Jetstar Cadetship set up almost ten years ago - it was all a money making conspiracy , imagine the cheek & gall of the airline
graduating 200 plus cadets and having 19 year olds getting paid $160K to fly a jet - just despicable conduct

You would be so much better off going down to local flying school self funding your CPL , then paying another another $30 k for an instructor rating then working 12 months casually
at a bottom feeder , then making it to a large flying academy and reaching for the stars with earnings of gee golly gosh $55k. Staying there for 2 or 3 years and then wow weee getting a gig
in the RHS of a turboprop for $75k

GA is the way to go , would never changem da GA days for notin

Bestem days of mi lifem

Last edited by Telfer86; 1st Jun 2019 at 02:20.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 00:46
  #630 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Professional Amateur View Post
Surely the lack of a specific thread on PPRuNe titled "qantas acadamy wannabes" (or something of the sort) is indicative of the interest in it...... (Lack of)
It’s currently running in the GA&Q’s forum.

They’ve received over 20’000 expressions of interest in the academy.

Other airlines get thousands of applications per year for each Cadetship they run.

Theres certaintly a lot of interest out there atm.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 12:19
  #631 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Dr Dre, couldn't find the thread..... What is it called? Its beyond page 4 when I look on my phone.... Sort of lost in the background is indicative of a lack of interest.

Where did the 20,000 figure come from? I would accept that figure with a massive lump of salt.

Either way.... 20000 applicants were interested. But I'm sure after Qantas casually slips the details across the table during contract signing a few eyebrows will be raised. There will be enough people out there who take a chance though.

Last edited by Professional Amateur; 1st Jun 2019 at 15:17.
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Old 1st Jun 2019, 12:48
  #632 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
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So over 20,000 people typed in their email address and clicked submit? Each and everyone of them must be 100% committed to reaching for the stars at the academy.
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Old 2nd Jun 2019, 04:45
  #633 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
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And the insrtructors are coming from were?
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Old 11th Jun 2019, 09:22
  #634 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
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Need advice on progression after flight school - NZ

Hi,

I live in NZ and am currently at a flight school completing my CPL (ATPL diploma).

I would like some advice from people who have already gone through this or maybe know people that were on the same boat as me.

This year, I'm turning 29 years old and I'm also married. Due to my age and marital status, I would like to know what the best option or path is into getting a job at an airline flying jets. My current idea is to finish flight school, become an instructor and gain the hours required, from there hopefully landing a job flying turboprops with airnz. This however would take another 2-3 years after becoming a flight instructor and how many years on turboprops until I get onto the jets. Are there any options going overseas after graduating flight school with only 250 hrs? (maybe second officer with cathay but repaying student loan would be impossible right) Can paying for my own way into getting 500 hrs be an alternative route than becoming a flight instructor? (I do have financial support from my parents and my wife if this was the case). I'm just worried not landing a job at this point would have huge consequences since I wouldn't have a job and would have to spend more money to become a flight instructor and wait it out. Would airlines even hire someone with no real job experience but with 500+ hrs (including other minimums like multi engine hrs etc).

I am open to relocating to a different country if options are out there and is a faster route into getting a job at a major airline than the current plan. I'm Korean by the way and have seen regional ads for 250hrs but I don't know the jargons in korean and since I won't be considered an expat I doubt the conversations would happen in English between me and the captain. Their salary is pretty bad too so even if I want to work in Korea later in life, it's better to work somewhere else first then work as an expat for double or even triple the salary right? Don't have too much info on this to be honest just heard stuff.

I just feel like I'm running out of time and started to feel the pressure of having to buy a house and supporting a family (looking to having kids soon...)

I would appreciate any advice.
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 07:22
  #635 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ardmore, New Zealand
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by yellokiwi View Post
Hi,

I live in NZ and am currently at a flight school completing my CPL (ATPL diploma).

I would like some advice from people who have already gone through this or maybe know people that were on the same boat as me.

This year, I'm turning 29 years old and I'm also married. Due to my age and marital status, I would like to know what the best option or path is into getting a job at an airline flying jets. My current idea is to finish flight school, become an instructor and gain the hours required, from there hopefully landing a job flying turboprops with airnz. This however would take another 2-3 years after becoming a flight instructor and how many years on turboprops until I get onto the jets. Are there any options going overseas after graduating flight school with only 250 hrs? (maybe second officer with cathay but repaying student loan would be impossible right) Can paying for my own way into getting 500 hrs be an alternative route than becoming a flight instructor? (I do have financial support from my parents and my wife if this was the case). I'm just worried not landing a job at this point would have huge consequences since I wouldn't have a job and would have to spend more money to become a flight instructor and wait it out. Would airlines even hire someone with no real job experience but with 500+ hrs (including other minimums like multi engine hrs etc).

I am open to relocating to a different country if options are out there and is a faster route into getting a job at a major airline than the current plan. I'm Korean by the way and have seen regional ads for 250hrs but I don't know the jargons in korean and since I won't be considered an expat I doubt the conversations would happen in English between me and the captain. Their salary is pretty bad too so even if I want to work in Korea later in life, it's better to work somewhere else first then work as an expat for double or even triple the salary right? Don't have too much info on this to be honest just heard stuff.

I just feel like I'm running out of time and started to feel the pressure of having to buy a house and supporting a family (looking to having kids soon...)

I would appreciate any advice.
I would recommend going to Cathay buddy. Spend a year or two there, then Air NZ jet will interview you. What is the big drive to go straight to a jet ASAP? Money?
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Old 12th Jun 2019, 11:20
  #636 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post
I would recommend going to Cathay buddy. Spend a year or two there, then Air NZ jet will interview you. What is the big drive to go straight to a jet ASAP? Money?
Big drive is the money and the progression. Dont get me wrong i love flying but at my age it would be great to speed things up and if i can save couple of years by skipping instructing or turboprop i would take that route.

If i by miracle go to cathay, isnt there a bond of like 7 years? What happens if you break contract and would airnz hire a person with only second officer experience to their a320?

Thanks for the reply too
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 00:03
  #637 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ardmore, New Zealand
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Originally Posted by yellokiwi View Post
Big drive is the money and the progression. Dont get me wrong i love flying but at my age it would be great to speed things up and if i can save couple of years by skipping instructing or turboprop i would take that route.

If i by miracle go to cathay, isnt there a bond of like 7 years? What happens if you break contract and would airnz hire a person with only second officer experience to their a320?

Thanks for the reply too
There have been quite a few SO’s from Cathay hired by Air NZ recently. Some of these SO’s had been at Cathay less than 2 years so they’ve obviously decided what ever bond there is (I don’t know the details) is worth paying, for the opportunity to get on NZ’s list. Bear in mind this is during the back end of their growth spurt. The amount of pilots they need will reduce over the next few years which will raise the hour requirements they look for.

29 isn’t old to be getting in to aviation either. If you’re about to start a family you might even find the Turboprop gig in NZ more suitable for time at home. The pay is reasonable and it’s quick to a command.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 05:06
  #638 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er View Post


There have been quite a few SO’s from Cathay hired by Air NZ recently. Some of these SO’s had been at Cathay less than 2 years so they’ve obviously decided what ever bond there is (I don’t know the details) is worth paying, for the opportunity to get on NZ’s list. Bear in mind this is during the back end of their growth spurt. The amount of pilots they need will reduce over the next few years which will raise the hour requirements they look for.

29 isn’t old to be getting in to aviation either. If you’re about to start a family you might even find the Turboprop gig in NZ more suitable for time at home. The pay is reasonable and it’s quick to a command.
Thanks for the insight. I doubt they take anyone with less than 500 hrs but if I could skip 3-4 years in being an instructor then it seems going to cathays is a good option. If im at 500 hrs and had to choose turboprop or cathays, id stick to airnz. Only if cathays take me or anywhere straight after flight school then ill go wherever then to airnz jets. Ill keep dreaming
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 08:08
  #639 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 4
Guidance after CPL/IR

Hi guys
hope you are having a wonderful day. Im pakistani national and did my CPL/IR from pakistan. Seeking guidance on what to do next. Planning on doing an instructor course with job opportunity. Any suggestions ?
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