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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

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Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)

Old 30th Jul 2017, 05:37
  #341 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 35
Flight school is offering options of either Warrior or C172 for my PPL.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on either aircraft for PPL training? Pros, cons etc. Currently training on the Warrior for RPL.
TurboProp2120 is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2017, 06:13
  #342 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YMMB
Age: 56
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by septerra View Post
I've been told via e-mail that RMIT offer part-time option on their aviation course. I'm going to head in to their campus tomorrow, in person, to confirm this wasn't just some auto / proforma reply to every enquiry about options.

There isn't much info on RMIT training on the web, and what little there is, is dated and negative in nature. Any inputs on this?
My son did his training at RMIT and things have worked out well for him.

The training is quite regimented and safety-orientated. RMIT seems to put a big emphasis on check lists, SOPs etc. This is probably a good habit for those headed to the airlines.

He hated most of the training, basically because a lot of the regimentation and control rubbed him the wrong way. However, the standard and professionalism of his flying reflects well on RMIT. He made some good mates at RMIT too.

As a parent, the level of control and direction was reassuring in a potentially dangerous endeavor.

It's a two year course with a massive workload to complete the studies in the time frame. Very steep learning curve if you don't have an aviation background.

My suggestion would be not to under-estimate the steep learning and to do as much preparation as possible before hand. This might include reading the theory books before the course, maybe try to knock off some of the theory exams and to get some flying experience (maybe try something cheaper like gliding).
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Old 31st Jul 2017, 10:31
  #343 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by TurboProp2120 View Post
Flight school is offering options of either Warrior or C172 for my PPL.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on either aircraft for PPL training? Pros, cons etc. Currently training on the Warrior for RPL.
They're both fine training aircraft.

My 172 experience is from the "fancy" models (172XP and 172RG) so it might not carry over perfectly. The key differences:

Pre-flight - Warrior is much easier to refuel, and it's easier to check fuel quantity (because the wings are at a reasonable height). Flaps being fully manual (rather than electric in the 172) means that you don't have to turn on the masters to check the flap hinges. On the other hand, the high wing on the 172 makes it easy to do your fuel drains, check flap/aileron hinges, etc - without crawling around on the ground. Two doors on the Cessna make it much easier to get into and out of, and the big (opening) windows are great in summer. The rear window on the 172 isn't used all that much, but it is nice to be able to see behind you before doing the run-ups.

Circuits - both the 172s that I've flown really like to stay stuck to the ground - you have to lift them off when you get to the appropriate airspeed. The Warrior tends to lift itself off as soon as it got to the target airspeed, and in gusty conditions you have to make sure that it stays down until you're ready to fly. The low-wing on the Warrior makes turns very easy (because you can see where you're turning), but also means that you can't see the ground so easily. For landing, I find the Warrior much more forgiving of extra speed; the 172 really has to be pretty slow before it'll make a decent landing.

Training area - the low-wing on the Warrior can be annoying when you're circling down for an emergency landing (you can lose sight of the target field), or for low passes during a precautionary search and landing. Of course, the Cessna's wing tends to block the field too as soon as you try to turn towards it.

Navigation - the big difference is the fuel tanks. Warriors need the tank changed every hour or so; the 172 just stays on "both" more-or-less permanently. Both are fine aircraft for navigation. I also find that the trim in the 172 is very sensitive; a centimeter up or down on the wheel makes a big difference. In the Warrior you can trim quite a lot without too much change. Neither is "better", just different.

If you're planning to continue flying on larger/faster planes, it'd be worth asking the school what their next level up is. Do they use a 172RG/R182, or do they go to an Arrow? The 172RG is likely to be an easier transition if you've trained in a 172, and the Arrow is likely to be an easier transition if you've trained in a Warrior.

Edit: apart from that, check the practicalities. If the school has one Warrior and one 172, and the Warrior gets used for all the RPL training as well as half the PPL training, then you're much more likely to be able to book time in the 172 for your PPL training. Check the instruments; when you start doing navigation exercises it is nice to have two radios, ADF/NAV (even if there aren't many NDBs and VORs left), GPS, etc.

Last edited by Slatye; 31st Jul 2017 at 10:48.
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 07:21
  #344 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 35
Thanks Slatye - Much appreciated for the detailed feedback. My CPL is going to be in the Cessna 206. I am enjoying flying the warrior, however maybe the experience on the C172 would be useful.
TurboProp2120 is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2017, 10:42
  #345 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Melbourne
Age: 32
Posts: 59
Appreciate all the inputs received here so far. I've already asked this before, however I'll ask it one last time before I make the final decision.

Are the foxbats worth training on? I can slog my way through self funding and piss a whole heap of people and relationships along the way, or I could get vet fee to train on foxbats and preserve my financial stability.

I'm struggling to make this decision. I'm pursuing this, but the pathway is unclear.
septerra is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2017, 23:34
  #346 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 5
Hi Septerra, I enrolled in the Diploma of Aviation with Soar about a year ago. Self Funding was not an option for me and the choice to use Soar was based primarily on the availability of vet fee assistance and the part time nature of the course. I am completing the course while working full time which requires sacrificing a lot of free time for study and flying but it is certainly achievable.

I was very hesitant to commit to flying training with the aircraft used by Soar but after some time spent thinking about it, the above criteria are what sealed the deal for me. I undertook some private training in a Warrior before starting at Soar and I have found that the Foxbat (and it's GA cousin the Vixxen) definitely has a degree of simplicity about it when compared to the Warrior and I imagine many other typical training aircraft. The aircraft have their own challenges though and the Vixxen will float forever if you don't keep it under tight control during approach to landing.

I do feel that the Foxbat and Vixxen are not the most ideal training aircraft for a future commercial pilot but to me the most important part of my training is in learning how to be a safe and capable pilot. I can summarise by saying it's learning good habits early, having the correct personal attitudes and behaviours for piloting and by developing the characteristics of good airmanship. Soar has some great instructors and I feel I'm learning important piloting skills that will transfer over to any aircraft I may fly in future.

Hopefully something in my opinion can help you out Septerra, message me if you want any additional information. Best of luck to you on your flying training.
JollyRancher is offline  
Old 9th Sep 2017, 09:28
  #347 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Perth
Posts: 2
Career change to pilot - advice sought


Not sure if I am posting in the right part of the forum (please move my thread accordingly if not).

I'm 24, have a Bachelor of Science and have been in a full time office job in Perth for 3 three years now. For the first time in my life I have the financial means to pursue a commercial pilots licence.

I'm just looking for some advice on what people think would happen if I pursued my CPL part time whilst continuing to work. What would happen when I finished at age 29? would it be hard to find work?

My goal is to be an airline pilot, however I'm more than happy to spend the years working towards that. If I were prepared to re-locate anywhere and fly whatever was on offer (at whatever rate), would I likely be able to find work?

I don't know anyone in the industry or any pilots so I'm really not sure what happens after someone gets their CPL. Is there a risk of expending the time and money and then there are just no opportunities whatsoever?

I'm sure many people ask this question but any advice much appreciated.

wagon is offline  
Old 14th Sep 2017, 19:00
  #348 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 4
Asking for advice on flying schools in Jandakot, Australia

Hi, its my first time posting here.

I am going to have flight training lessons in Jandakot, Australia for few weeks.

After doing some research, I have two options:
The first one is thunderbird aero services (TAS) and i will be flying DA20. (shd be Diamond DA20 C1 Eclipse)
The second one is jandakot flight center (JFC) with a cessna 172P.

However, the offer from JFC is AUD$500 cheaper than TAS based on an estimation of 10 hours flying.

I know that for flight training, the reputation of the flying school is more important than the type of aircraft or anything else. And if there is no big difference, go for the cheaper one.

So I would like to know if any of you did have some experience with these two schools and can share with me?
If you were me, which one would you go for?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
runstreet is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 02:21
  #349 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Perth
Posts: 1
VET-FEE schools CPL Australia

I'm currently living in Perth and am looking to get my CPL in the next year or two. Unfortunately I can't afford to attend a flying school here in WA, and the military is not an option for me, so I am looking to get my CPL in another state at a school that offers VET student loans. As far am I'm concerned only the following schools offer this option - does anyone know which ones are good / which ones to avoid, etc.?

Flight Training Adelaide, Basair Aviation College, Australian Wings Academy, Box Hill Academy, Royal Vic Areo Club, Air Gold Coast, Aviation Australia.

avimaz is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2017, 04:17
  #350 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: melbourne
Posts: 3
becoming a pilot without studying physics and low maths

Hello all,
I am in a bit of a sticky situatuion, im currently in year 12 doing vce studying futher maths, geography, computing, product design technolgy and bussiness manangment but no science, i've currently got 11 flying hours and plan on getting more although i am worried their is no point pursuing piloting as a career as im worried i wont get a job in the future because im not studying a high maths or physics, as i know qantas you need at least methods maths and asume other airlines you need to poses methods and physics. i hope for some advice because at the moment its not looking like im going to pursue my dream of becoming a pilot, thanks for your responses in advance!!!
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Old 16th Sep 2017, 04:06
  #351 (permalink)  

Victim of a bored god

Join Date: Jan 1996
Location: Utopia
Posts: 6,760
The world does not revolve around Qantas, there are many, many viable career options for pilots.

Some excellent pilots I know have problems with anything more complex than Primary School Arithmetic!!

Skill and tenacity will achieve far more in a flying career than maths and physics - although all four helps.

If Qantas is your sole goal you should face reality and perhaps quit now - I don't know the statistics but my guess around one in a hundred Qantas applicants actually scores a gig at Qantas.
tail wheel is offline  
Old 18th Sep 2017, 04:16
  #352 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: melbourne
Posts: 3
Hey tail wind,
yes just using qantas as a example because they have the requirements on their website which most others dont. Would a small regonal airline up north put your results of year 12 or your atar into precaustion when looking at resumes all would it mostly based on qualifications and hours?
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Old 21st Sep 2017, 10:40
  #353 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 3
NZ Exams

Morning all...

The goal is an NZ CPL and MEIR

The question is, do I need to sit the PPL exams, or do the CPL and IR exams count?

lynxeffect is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2017, 22:03
  #354 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: N22 E114
Posts: 175
Have a look at Minovation
Did a flight review there a while ago and was impressed by the professionalism and customer service.
whiskey1 is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 07:48
  #355 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 33
Posts: 66
I am still basically a newbie, been out of the game for 7 months. About 1200 total and 140 multi, current IPC and MCC ATPLs. I have sent out a lot and trips to Darwin and Kununurra with no luck. Is it just me or has everything started to slow down bit. Maybe not a lot of recent flying could be. The issue???
Thanks in advance👍
Far Canel is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2017, 22:51
  #356 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Earth
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Far Canel View Post
I am still basically a newbie, been out of the game for 7 months. About 1200 total and 140 multi, current IPC and MCC ATPLs. I have sent out a lot and trips to Darwin and Kununurra with no luck. Is it just me or has everything started to slow down bit. Maybe not a lot of recent flying could be. The issue???
Thanks in advance👍
I'd probably omit the fact that you went and got a MCC, unless you are applying to someone who needs it. Your hours and the fact that you have an MCC just screams "this job would be a stop-gap and I will leave as soon as an airline gig comes up".

Still plenty of movement, but it comes in waves, so it's really going to be the people waiting in the given location that will slot right in. I'm sure you'll get something, just be patient.
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Old 23rd Sep 2017, 01:36
  #357 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Tauranga
Posts: 2
Best way to become an Airline Transport Pilot ?

I have a few options, but i don't know which one would be the best.
I'm located in New Zealand, resident here but i have european citizenship too. i'm starting university in January, and my final goal is to become an Airline Transport Pilot.

1. I could start Bachelor of Aviation at Massey university, and then work as an instructor , then just work my way up from there. ( uni is $200.000 ).

2.option. Massey university also offer Bachelor of Aviation Management, this would only be ($18.000) and outside university i can slowly learning to fly, privately.
or join to the air force (if i got selected) after i finished university. and after 10 years service i can get some missing licence and apply for a job.??

3.option. I could start some `aviation related uni`
Bachelor of Engineering (Honours) (BE (Hons)) (5 years) or Bachelor of Science (BSc) (3 years) and then the same thing , either aviation school or air force. not which uni would an airline recognize.

I have to stay in NZ for another 5 years to join the airforce, so i've got 5 years to do something useful. Preferably university, as it is a requirement, but can it be any kind of university?

Roland 23/m
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Old 27th Sep 2017, 22:11
  #358 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Tauranga
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by Andrias View Post

If you want to get a qualification / degree aim to study a non-aviation related degree (i.e. Engineering). That is IF you want to get a qualification / degree. I reiterate that simply because all you really need to become a pilot is enough money and the riight attitude towards the job.

Degrees cost money, money that could have been spent on flying. No use in spending thousands on an Aviation Management degree when your first job as a low hour pilot will be to learn how to fly the line and not manage the Airline...

Also, with the Air Force - here is where you'll need to make the decision of whether you want to pursue a Commercial career or an Air Force career. If Air Force is the goal then study as hard as you can, get a degree and apply to the Air Force - keep in my mind that this route is very though and you'll need to proof yourself during the panel interview both on paper (grades) and as a person (leadership, aptitude etc.)

However, since you're 5 years away from becoming eligible to apply for the Air Force you can either start preparing by getting your degree, perhaps learning to fly a glider as it is a cost effective way and a VERY good way to learn the Aerodynamics of flying, OR you can use that money you would have spent and start learning now and building your hours now in order to pursue a Commercial career.

Don't forget that New Zealand have very good flying clubs in the country that offer great support whilst learning. Clubs also have instructors that know the ropes and whose knowledge and experience are invaluable to students and the last time I checked, Clubs don't charge $200k for training.

Good luck.

Thank you for this information,
I have talked to an officer and yes apparently it's pretty hard to get it. I don't really have saved up money, but i just found out there is a few flying club that's recognized by studylink, so i could get a student loan. Well, Engineering is 5 years, and i dont think its too easy. however if i do it i would have a backup plan, plus i could make my own money for flight lessons.
is university not a must? can you really be an airline transport pilot without any degree?
If i don't need any degree then i could just use that student loan to learn how to fly, and start working as an instructor or something similar.

When i went to talk to an officer at the air force, he said well minimal requirement is lvl2 math and science. but if you wanna be competitive, and you want to get in as well, you kinda need a degree, and few other qualification.
akry is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2017, 06:05
  #359 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10
Aviation Career Advice

Hi all,

I am a year 10 student and wish to become a pilot. Currently, I have taken 2 flying lessons and have absolutely loved it. Would you guys recommend I get a CPL straight after I finish school and become a pilot the traditional way or go through a cadetship?

Any help appreciated.
Airlinelover is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2017, 08:25
  #360 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 870
Id advise talking to some Flight Instructors or CFIs at your local Aero Club for some advice. First see if you can get the medical done before committing.

Cadetships are super competitive and financially draining and not highly regarded on this forum going off discussion in the other forum. Traditional way is Flight Instructing then into Charter, Bush, Props, Regional, Airline.
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