Newbie & Flying Training Advice (Merged)
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Much appreciated.
That is a terrific resource and one you could have kept to yourself so thank you for making it available. As a parent of a low hour CPL with MECIR and ILS we feel for everyone in the same position. It's heart breaking to see the work and commitment (and money)that goes into getting these qualifications only to be spat out the other end. Keep at it.
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
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How Many Is Too Many?
Hi Mick,
Forgive me for digging up an old post, but I have to ask. You mentioned in your post the idea of "too much dual time".
How much dual time would you deem as TOO much dual time?
Thanks
Alexander
Forgive me for digging up an old post, but I have to ask. You mentioned in your post the idea of "too much dual time".
How much dual time would you deem as TOO much dual time?
Thanks
Alexander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Australia
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Alexander,
As a general rule of thumb any thing more than 50% goes into resume pile two. Eg 150 hour TT 70 - 75 command. We go through logbook and look for how much time training has taken. The sort of training that has been done. We are looking for signs of struggle during training. Lots of dual time compared to command is an indicator we have found in the past to either lack of natural flying ability or lack of listening or understand skills.
We don't want to take the easy way of culling that a lot other operators use and just put a 300 - 400 hour minim on new pilots. We have always felt a sence of responsibility to give back to the industry that has been good to us. Someone has to get pilots to the 300-400 hour mark. However we only have a certain amount of time, money and patience in a small organisation to be able to get newbies to line. We cannot go broke trying to get newbies to line that lack enthusiasm or ability.
We look for pilots that have the ability to think outside the box and are ahead of not just the plane but operations. We have seen a link between those newbies that need to be told everything and high dual time. Lower Dual time pilots tend to be big picture pilots. Eg have always studied a step ahead of physical abilitys, understand aircraft systems before flying that aircraft. Have constantly asked questions of instructor/ CFI during training. Live, breath flying and don't really look at flying as a job. Will arrive at work/training with weather/notams and flight plan in hand.
Have the ability to have a picture in their head of what the day will hold and changes that could happen before they start the day. I find that then helps them cope with the forever changing day that is charter operations.
Newbies tend to think that flying is the only skill they need. Organisation is just as important and that tends to start in training and will also show in Dual time.
Hope this helps
Mick
As a general rule of thumb any thing more than 50% goes into resume pile two. Eg 150 hour TT 70 - 75 command. We go through logbook and look for how much time training has taken. The sort of training that has been done. We are looking for signs of struggle during training. Lots of dual time compared to command is an indicator we have found in the past to either lack of natural flying ability or lack of listening or understand skills.
We don't want to take the easy way of culling that a lot other operators use and just put a 300 - 400 hour minim on new pilots. We have always felt a sence of responsibility to give back to the industry that has been good to us. Someone has to get pilots to the 300-400 hour mark. However we only have a certain amount of time, money and patience in a small organisation to be able to get newbies to line. We cannot go broke trying to get newbies to line that lack enthusiasm or ability.
We look for pilots that have the ability to think outside the box and are ahead of not just the plane but operations. We have seen a link between those newbies that need to be told everything and high dual time. Lower Dual time pilots tend to be big picture pilots. Eg have always studied a step ahead of physical abilitys, understand aircraft systems before flying that aircraft. Have constantly asked questions of instructor/ CFI during training. Live, breath flying and don't really look at flying as a job. Will arrive at work/training with weather/notams and flight plan in hand.
Have the ability to have a picture in their head of what the day will hold and changes that could happen before they start the day. I find that then helps them cope with the forever changing day that is charter operations.
Newbies tend to think that flying is the only skill they need. Organisation is just as important and that tends to start in training and will also show in Dual time.
Hope this helps
Mick
Join Date: Nov 2014
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Mick I think that would work in most cases, not all cases. A lot of different reasons why people could have more dual. People who have completed the training in the 150hour bracket would have more dual then solo. Especially if they have got initial multi and nvfr on the piece of paper
Join Date: Nov 2014
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On recollection, pistnbroke_again is right. Once I complete my RA-Aus Certificate and Nav endorsement, I'll have around 40 hours dual and 8 or 9 solo.
Because I plan on going to PPL and CPL afterwards, I'm going to have a *lot* more dual time than solo time when I emerge with a CPL and an MECIR. How would I go about explaining this to a CP such as yourself, Mick?
Because I plan on going to PPL and CPL afterwards, I'm going to have a *lot* more dual time than solo time when I emerge with a CPL and an MECIR. How would I go about explaining this to a CP such as yourself, Mick?
Join Date: Mar 2013
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You don't get it. Re read my post. It isn't a deal breaker it's a rule of thumb. I said we review logbooks for signs of struggle. Don't insult me with a reason or excuse that it took you twice as long to get your CPL because your instructor didn't understand you needs. This excuse has been given before. After 30 odd years and thousands of CV,s we have indicators to look for. We know how long each section of training should take to achieve. We take into account different types of training. These are all indicators. 150 and 75 single time was a good example we have found in the past as an indicator. It however isn't the only thing we look at. However if you come in with 250 to 75 single, I say pile 2. Remember we are only looking for basic day single VFR pilots. I don't care if you have MECIR. I am looking for an intelligent common sense pilot that can think for themselves, that are keen and willing to improve, willing to jump in and do something as basic as cleaning their plane and don't wait to be told. We also look for all those things that help handle stress in a changing environment. After looking through lots of logbooks they will tell a story.
Join Date: Nov 2014
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I apologise if my post came off as insulting, Mick. I just saw the 150/75 and thought, "If I don't have that, I'll be stuffed in finding a job."
Thanks for clearing that up.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Looking for work in Aus
Hi all!
I'm new to this so please excuse any breach in protocol. Basically I have moved to Aus from NZ to look for flying work, I have a CPL (260hrs), Multi-engine Instrument Rating and ratings in a C172 and DA42. I'm looking for work doing any type of flying anywhere, Im planning to head up north to the Darwin area driving from Brisbane and going to stop at all the airports and aerodromes on the way. Any suggestions of where to stop, who to speak to, or any advice at all? Any advice is hugely appreciated!
Cheers
Dan
I'm new to this so please excuse any breach in protocol. Basically I have moved to Aus from NZ to look for flying work, I have a CPL (260hrs), Multi-engine Instrument Rating and ratings in a C172 and DA42. I'm looking for work doing any type of flying anywhere, Im planning to head up north to the Darwin area driving from Brisbane and going to stop at all the airports and aerodromes on the way. Any suggestions of where to stop, who to speak to, or any advice at all? Any advice is hugely appreciated!
Cheers
Dan
Join Date: Mar 2014
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@ Mick
I had a question if you don't mind me asking. I am a B-cat here in NZ holding a current OCA with around 20 hours under part 135. Those 135 hours are mostly scenic with some aerial photography as well. My total time is 800+
I was interested to know if you think that is enough to have an edge if I was to come to Aus, buy a car and go job hunting or if it would be better to wait for the 1000hour mark.
Thanks for any help!
I had a question if you don't mind me asking. I am a B-cat here in NZ holding a current OCA with around 20 hours under part 135. Those 135 hours are mostly scenic with some aerial photography as well. My total time is 800+
I was interested to know if you think that is enough to have an edge if I was to come to Aus, buy a car and go job hunting or if it would be better to wait for the 1000hour mark.
Thanks for any help!
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Become a Pilot in Australia
Hi all, I've read these forums for years and finally joined.
I'm posting this because I need honest/professional advice from anyone in the industry. I'm 31, I have a PPL and would love to make a life long career as a pilot. I have a very supportive wife and 2 young kids. Here's a few questions I hope I can get some answers/advice on.
1) I'm thinking about flying with a college at Bankstown which offers Vet Fee Help. Has anyone done this and is it a good path to go down?
2) Is getting a MECIR something I should do whilst getting CPL or go straight to a NVFR and instructor rating? (I love teaching people new things so instructing is something I will prob end up doing).
3) Being 31 and not having a great education. Can I get 'good' job in a few years? ME charter / RFDS / Regional RPT
4) Is there work around? do Fresh CPL's struggle to find work and if so will this get better?
Sorry for the long question. Some big decisions to make soon.
I'm posting this because I need honest/professional advice from anyone in the industry. I'm 31, I have a PPL and would love to make a life long career as a pilot. I have a very supportive wife and 2 young kids. Here's a few questions I hope I can get some answers/advice on.
1) I'm thinking about flying with a college at Bankstown which offers Vet Fee Help. Has anyone done this and is it a good path to go down?
2) Is getting a MECIR something I should do whilst getting CPL or go straight to a NVFR and instructor rating? (I love teaching people new things so instructing is something I will prob end up doing).
3) Being 31 and not having a great education. Can I get 'good' job in a few years? ME charter / RFDS / Regional RPT
4) Is there work around? do Fresh CPL's struggle to find work and if so will this get better?
Sorry for the long question. Some big decisions to make soon.
Join Date: May 2007
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Having an OCA means nothing in Australia. With 500+ hours of instructing, you'd look good for a basic instructing job. For charter, you're at the bottom of the pile with every other fresh CPL graduate in Australia. 800 nor 1000 hours of instructing will give you an edge for top-end charter companies, in my opinion.
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Radio dude, I think I'm qualified to at least give an opinion.
We are about the same age, in the same family circumstances. I however have all the qualifications that you desire. CPL, MECIR, Instructor rating, NVFR, tail wheel, and over 100 hours aerobatic competition flying. The only thing I don't have, aside from a floating hull endorsement, is a job.
To answer your points:
1) Didn't do it myself, so despite no job, I also have no debt too repay. You know your financial situation, it's between you and your wife.
2) Without having a great education as you say, CPL will be a lot of work and you will struggle with some of the concepts. I was/am exactly the same. Do not under estimate the amount of time you will need for study. It is enormous. I did mine before I had my daughter, don't know how I would manage now.
Don't add to your woes by trying for an instrument rating at the same time. You won't get an IFR job straight away anyhow, so it is a waste of money at this stage.
3) Unlikely but not impossible, if you and your family are willing and able to live in a top end sh1thole for a couple of years on very little money. That is, if you can score the job over all the rich kids that got bankrolled by Daddy. Not trying to be negative, that's just how it is.
4) There is work around, just not where you and I are. Absolutely you will struggle to get work, everyone does. Will it get better? I don't know. I hope so, but the industry has stagnated. Major airlines haven't recruited en masse for about 5 years, regionals are shutting down at an alarming rate, and schools like the Bankstown flying college that offers VET FEE-HELP are pumping out as many new CPL's as they can.
That's the situation we are all in. Hope this helps you decide.
We are about the same age, in the same family circumstances. I however have all the qualifications that you desire. CPL, MECIR, Instructor rating, NVFR, tail wheel, and over 100 hours aerobatic competition flying. The only thing I don't have, aside from a floating hull endorsement, is a job.
To answer your points:
1) Didn't do it myself, so despite no job, I also have no debt too repay. You know your financial situation, it's between you and your wife.
2) Without having a great education as you say, CPL will be a lot of work and you will struggle with some of the concepts. I was/am exactly the same. Do not under estimate the amount of time you will need for study. It is enormous. I did mine before I had my daughter, don't know how I would manage now.
Don't add to your woes by trying for an instrument rating at the same time. You won't get an IFR job straight away anyhow, so it is a waste of money at this stage.
3) Unlikely but not impossible, if you and your family are willing and able to live in a top end sh1thole for a couple of years on very little money. That is, if you can score the job over all the rich kids that got bankrolled by Daddy. Not trying to be negative, that's just how it is.
4) There is work around, just not where you and I are. Absolutely you will struggle to get work, everyone does. Will it get better? I don't know. I hope so, but the industry has stagnated. Major airlines haven't recruited en masse for about 5 years, regionals are shutting down at an alarming rate, and schools like the Bankstown flying college that offers VET FEE-HELP are pumping out as many new CPL's as they can.
That's the situation we are all in. Hope this helps you decide.
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Thank you
50_50 that's the sort of honest advice I was after. It's great to hear two sides to every story. Sadly the picture you paint is completely different to the ones the college (and flying schools) paint. Some of the things they've promised is so far fetched, even a guy like me with just a plain PPL and no experience in the industry wouldn't believe!!
Can you not find any work at Bankstown or Camden as an instructor?
I do agree with you how the colleges are pumping out so many CPL pilots. That cannot have a positive place in the industry and also makes it harder to find work.
Please don't get me wrong... I want this career so bad but the mature father of 2 steps in and surveys the idea of spending $80k for the possibility of nil work.
Once again mate, I do truly appreciate the advice given.
Can you not find any work at Bankstown or Camden as an instructor?
I do agree with you how the colleges are pumping out so many CPL pilots. That cannot have a positive place in the industry and also makes it harder to find work.
Please don't get me wrong... I want this career so bad but the mature father of 2 steps in and surveys the idea of spending $80k for the possibility of nil work.
Once again mate, I do truly appreciate the advice given.
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Ab Initio Training.
Hi Guys,
as well as learning how to use this confusing forum, (so much information), I am currently looking for a start into the industry.
I have almost no flying experience, (10 hours 2 years ago), and am currently considering starting my RPL/PPL/CPL training through Melbourne Flight Training.
However, I also have offers through Moorabbin flying services and RMIT for commercial licences (all based in Melbourne at YMMB).
Any thoughts or previous experience?
Cheers.
as well as learning how to use this confusing forum, (so much information), I am currently looking for a start into the industry.
I have almost no flying experience, (10 hours 2 years ago), and am currently considering starting my RPL/PPL/CPL training through Melbourne Flight Training.
However, I also have offers through Moorabbin flying services and RMIT for commercial licences (all based in Melbourne at YMMB).
Any thoughts or previous experience?
Cheers.
