Avalon Air Show - Waste Of Time
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jas24zzk
Lowlight....The c-27 Spartan. Would have liked to seen it fly, but they couldn't have sent a worse example. Spent some time talking to the french crew. I made a comment about being possibly being the worst example flying.
Last edited by FoxtrotAlpha18; 5th Mar 2013 at 04:19.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oz
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why can't I kick the tyres on the F18 @ AV but can @ OSH?
Lowlight....The c-27 Spartan. Would have liked to seen it fly, but they couldn't have sent a worse example. Spent some time talking to the french crew. I made a comment about being possibly being the worst example flying. Crew was like no no no best one squadron owns, the other didn't make it. ROFL! Squadron was supposedly leaving the mid east back to france, and two were diverted to come here. The one as displayed, was delivered new to the squadron in the mid east and has just over 11k hours on it with no refurb done. Credit to the frogs for flying it here.
Melissa, The Caribou's and the gorgeous little English wing-walkers were the highlights for me
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: always ahead of my aircraft
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm an employee of the Avalon Airshow and like many other employees and volunteers have been working very hard to produce a good air show, all the time coming up against budgetary constraints, like everyone else, including exhibitors both civilian and military. It is good to see that the majority of people understand this and enjoyed the show we have produced.
Unfortunately exhibitors can't be forced to stay for the public days, they are there to sell and when the selling is over they leave, cutting down on hotel costs, transport costs etc. so that their employees can be gainfully employed elsewhere. Serious buyers will probably have contacted the exhibitor of their interest first, may even have got their trade day invites from them, the hard facts are that very few, if any, of the public day viewers are serious buyers. As has been mentioned, the professional salesman knows instinctively who the serious buyers are, regardless of clothes or demeanour.
Unfortunately exhibitors can't be forced to stay for the public days, they are there to sell and when the selling is over they leave, cutting down on hotel costs, transport costs etc. so that their employees can be gainfully employed elsewhere. Serious buyers will probably have contacted the exhibitor of their interest first, may even have got their trade day invites from them, the hard facts are that very few, if any, of the public day viewers are serious buyers. As has been mentioned, the professional salesman knows instinctively who the serious buyers are, regardless of clothes or demeanour.
This was my first year at Avalon & I absolutely loved it. While everyone's comparing it to a expo in another country, how about comparing it to a similar sized event in Aus, like the footy, or the big day out, or even just taking a normal flight at the airport. There you'd be in huge lines waiting to get your bag thoroughly searched after waiting in a huge line to have your ticket scanned, and get sniffed at by sniffer dogs. It added an extra 10 seconds or so to my day to chuck my bag onto the conveyor to have it xrayed. At least there wasn't full body scanners like you'd get at the airport.
I went on the Sunday and given the 7ish hours of aerial displays as well as the static displays and the amount of things to do it was definitely worth the money. The F22 floored me with its ability to defy the laws of physics, and I had no idea they could throw around a C17 as much as they did at the display.
And big thanks to all the pilots/aircrew that were always up for a chat about the aircraft! I spend all day talking to pilots (usually giving them delays), but never get the chance to just have a chat about the beautiful machines on display.
I went on the Sunday and given the 7ish hours of aerial displays as well as the static displays and the amount of things to do it was definitely worth the money. The F22 floored me with its ability to defy the laws of physics, and I had no idea they could throw around a C17 as much as they did at the display.
And big thanks to all the pilots/aircrew that were always up for a chat about the aircraft! I spend all day talking to pilots (usually giving them delays), but never get the chance to just have a chat about the beautiful machines on display.
Last edited by In_Transit; 5th Mar 2013 at 05:34.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: gas filled self propelled bag
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll straddle the fence and say that while I enjoyed the show, it didn't bring anything new that made it stand out. I've been to 2009, 2011 and 2013 but don't think I'll go to 2015 unless there are some big announcements.
This year there was no military or civil aircraft that I hadn't seen at one of the previous shows. Saw the Raptor on static 2011, but was glad to catch the display this year. I guess the ACJ was there on the trade days but obviously you couldn't have a look in without being someone - from the outside it's just a A319! Apart from those the large aircraft static show was much the same.
2011 there was a V Oz 777 on static, and a Q A380 (until it departed early) - can't remember all too well but think a Q 747 subbed in for it.
2013 - one Qlink Dash 8 on static, with no-one there to talk to, not even a sign to say what it was for those less informed. I guess Jetstar arriving and departing were the civil airliners part of the show...
Also can't quite remember... but was 2011 some anniversary of some kind for the USAF? They had a much larger presence compared to this year. B-1B, some sort of AWACS, their own Rhinos. All wonderful things that didn't make it this time around.
I went on one of the trade days, and was supposed to go again with some non-industry mates on the public days. In the end I just couldn't justify the $60 ticket again to see the same displays over again, much as I enjoyed it.
That said, for those seeing it for the first time I bet they had a great time! The event ran smoothly and all of those behind the stands were friendly and more than ready to have a chat. Matt Hall is a gentleman and an inspiration, and once my niece and nephew are a little older I'd love to take them to hear him speak - I'm sure they'll get the aviation bug too.
So my review B/B+. Everything was good, but you can't have LESS than the last one. Keep on building and getting bigger!
This year there was no military or civil aircraft that I hadn't seen at one of the previous shows. Saw the Raptor on static 2011, but was glad to catch the display this year. I guess the ACJ was there on the trade days but obviously you couldn't have a look in without being someone - from the outside it's just a A319! Apart from those the large aircraft static show was much the same.
2011 there was a V Oz 777 on static, and a Q A380 (until it departed early) - can't remember all too well but think a Q 747 subbed in for it.
2013 - one Qlink Dash 8 on static, with no-one there to talk to, not even a sign to say what it was for those less informed. I guess Jetstar arriving and departing were the civil airliners part of the show...
Also can't quite remember... but was 2011 some anniversary of some kind for the USAF? They had a much larger presence compared to this year. B-1B, some sort of AWACS, their own Rhinos. All wonderful things that didn't make it this time around.
I went on one of the trade days, and was supposed to go again with some non-industry mates on the public days. In the end I just couldn't justify the $60 ticket again to see the same displays over again, much as I enjoyed it.
That said, for those seeing it for the first time I bet they had a great time! The event ran smoothly and all of those behind the stands were friendly and more than ready to have a chat. Matt Hall is a gentleman and an inspiration, and once my niece and nephew are a little older I'd love to take them to hear him speak - I'm sure they'll get the aviation bug too.
So my review B/B+. Everything was good, but you can't have LESS than the last one. Keep on building and getting bigger!
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,280
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In-transit, how many frigging times have I got to say it:
I AM NOT COMPARING IT TO OSH! THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
I'm merely suggesting ways for it to reach a broader audience both in content & user friendliness. As a pilot and aircraft builder I find more value elsewhere. It is a great show with some outstanding displays.
I AM NOT COMPARING IT TO OSH! THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
I'm merely suggesting ways for it to reach a broader audience both in content & user friendliness. As a pilot and aircraft builder I find more value elsewhere. It is a great show with some outstanding displays.
Thread Starter
FA18;
1. I see no discontinuity between paying $1000's for one thing and bitching about the price of something else. Do you realy think billionaires don't bitch about parking tickets like the rest of us?
2. I guess I could be a Pollyanna and go on about how wonderful Avalon was/is. but that would be a lie. The air display on the Public days? Great! The hardworking staff? Ditto!
However, I tells it like it is. There was SFA to interest a GA pilot who has been there before who is in the market for aircraft or aircraft gear. Deal with it.
If I go again, it will be for the display only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold E
I have to ask if you are fair dinkum Sunny? You say you would, maybe, be prepared to fork out for a new C182 (some hundreds of thousands of dollars ), yet on another thread you are questioning the price and requirement of a second vhf radio (at about $1200 )? Come on Sunny, whats the true story? Are you just a dreamer?
Plus he was bitching about the $60 entry fee...
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabellum
Sunfish - I see that, as usual, both wires are connected to the negative terminal! Avalon 2013 may have been a waste of time for you personally but fortunately not for the majority of the other 189,999 visitors. The title of this thread is very unfair and misleading, how about contacting the Mods and asking them to delete the "waste of time"?
Par for the course unfortunately - I can't say that I've ever heard a positive word out of Sunfish's mouth (keys?) about anything here unless he was backing up someone else who was also having a moan...
Originally Posted by Arnold E
I have to ask if you are fair dinkum Sunny? You say you would, maybe, be prepared to fork out for a new C182 (some hundreds of thousands of dollars ), yet on another thread you are questioning the price and requirement of a second vhf radio (at about $1200 )? Come on Sunny, whats the true story? Are you just a dreamer?
Plus he was bitching about the $60 entry fee...
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabellum
Sunfish - I see that, as usual, both wires are connected to the negative terminal! Avalon 2013 may have been a waste of time for you personally but fortunately not for the majority of the other 189,999 visitors. The title of this thread is very unfair and misleading, how about contacting the Mods and asking them to delete the "waste of time"?
Par for the course unfortunately - I can't say that I've ever heard a positive word out of Sunfish's mouth (keys?) about anything here unless he was backing up someone else who was also having a moan...
2. I guess I could be a Pollyanna and go on about how wonderful Avalon was/is. but that would be a lie. The air display on the Public days? Great! The hardworking staff? Ditto!
However, I tells it like it is. There was SFA to interest a GA pilot who has been there before who is in the market for aircraft or aircraft gear. Deal with it.
If I go again, it will be for the display only.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: PPrune nominee 2011!
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish, you are a twisted old man if I can say so. After visiting on the trade day and the public I enjoyed every single minute of it. Perhaps it was the manner of how you approached them?
Although I didn't spend any money the chap I was with did put an order down on two aircraft. Every booth we attended we were met with professionalism. Showed us around when asked if we could view the 'product'
The open day for the public was absolute awesome. Thumbs up to all involved very well organized.
Pity about the bou dropping its fuel...
Although I didn't spend any money the chap I was with did put an order down on two aircraft. Every booth we attended we were met with professionalism. Showed us around when asked if we could view the 'product'
The open day for the public was absolute awesome. Thumbs up to all involved very well organized.
Pity about the bou dropping its fuel...
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,096
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TSRABECOMING - Sorry, I really can't see how you can come to that conclusion, could you explain please, a bit more detail, who is 'they'?
However, I tells it like it is. There was SFA to interest a GA pilot who has
been there before who is in the market for aircraft or aircraft gear. Deal with
it.
No Sunfish, you deal with it, organise a full on GA expo and come to Avalon knowing what to expect and enjoy it! You have financialy secure friends, get out there and organise!
zappalin - 2011 was the 90th anniversary of the formation of the RAAF.
If you had any idea of the extent of the financial constraints that are now placed on the RAAF, USAF, most of industry and all other visiting Air Forces you would realise that what we were able to produce for 2013 was commendable. Naturally we aim to produce the best ever but it will always be the best possible. We are already planning for 2015, a big year, 100th anniversary of Gallipoli, but we will be subject to the same constraints as every one else so let us hope for a continuing improvement in the world economy!
Thanks to all of you who came to Avalon 2013 and enjoyed it, hope you all enjoy many more!
However, I tells it like it is. There was SFA to interest a GA pilot who has
been there before who is in the market for aircraft or aircraft gear. Deal with
it.
zappalin - 2011 was the 90th anniversary of the formation of the RAAF.
If you had any idea of the extent of the financial constraints that are now placed on the RAAF, USAF, most of industry and all other visiting Air Forces you would realise that what we were able to produce for 2013 was commendable. Naturally we aim to produce the best ever but it will always be the best possible. We are already planning for 2015, a big year, 100th anniversary of Gallipoli, but we will be subject to the same constraints as every one else so let us hope for a continuing improvement in the world economy!
Thanks to all of you who came to Avalon 2013 and enjoyed it, hope you all enjoy many more!
Last edited by parabellum; 5th Mar 2013 at 08:26.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: gas filled self propelled bag
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahhh... cheers parabellum, makes sense now. So 8 years from now will be a bit of a blinder?
As I said, I had a great time, but after going to the last few it wasn't sufficiently different to go multiple days - at least, not at $60 a day! Times are tight at the moment..
Any chance of a weekend pass or some such thing in the future? Would be great to be able to go and see 4-5 hours at a time, for a few days.
As I said, I had a great time, but after going to the last few it wasn't sufficiently different to go multiple days - at least, not at $60 a day! Times are tight at the moment..
Any chance of a weekend pass or some such thing in the future? Would be great to be able to go and see 4-5 hours at a time, for a few days.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,096
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
zappalin - I will certainly make sure your thoughts don't go unnoticed! I am but a small cog but, eventually, I make contact with the bigger cogs!
Would you buy a two day ticket for $100.00, say?
Would you buy a two day ticket for $100.00, say?
Last edited by parabellum; 5th Mar 2013 at 09:52.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mel-burn
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think at $60 it's still good value for an all day event. (+$10 parking)
2 hours at the footy $40 roughly
A latest release movie at the cinema for 90 mins for $15
1 hour massage $60
2 hours at the footy $40 roughly
A latest release movie at the cinema for 90 mins for $15
1 hour massage $60
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas24zzk
Lowlight....The c-27 Spartan. Would have liked to seen it fly, but they couldn't have sent a worse example. Spent some time talking to the french crew. I made a comment about being possibly being the worst example flying.
Arrgh...someone beat me to it...as you were...
Originally Posted by jas24zzk
Lowlight....The c-27 Spartan. Would have liked to seen it fly, but they couldn't have sent a worse example. Spent some time talking to the french crew. I made a comment about being possibly being the worst example flying.
Arrgh...someone beat me to it...as you were...
More than one it seems........
Saw my error, beat the head on the desk a few times, wondered what they hell i was thinking about at the time of my post, beat my head on the desk a few more times and awoke as a CASA FOI stalker........
Having chatted to another mate who called into work today, he got the story that they had been operating in south america and avalon was a way point on the way home.
Strikes me the crew were bored of telling the same tale, and were making up stories to entertain. Good on em! At least for frenchies, they were friendly! Did anyone see the female crew member? hubba hubba... i think i could go french for that
Luv ya's Jas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 51
Posts: 931
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does it cost too much?
$60 for a public day ticket.
hmmm sounds a lil pricy.
VH-XXX gave some other examples..........the massage...provided its quality Reiki tops the list.
However...lets have a look.......
I arrived on field at roughly 1000, departed at 1630. So basically 8.5 hours 'entertainment'
60/8.5= $7.05 per hour.
Thats cheap entertainment in anyones language....you can't even fuel a jabiru for that!.
The show relies on the public paying the dollars....according to the commentator on Satd'y there were over 100k heads in attendance....without that, no show!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Oshkosh Vs Avalon...buyers perspective.
You simply cannot compare. It is the attendee's that drive the difference.
At oshkosh, most 'buyers' arrive reasonably well informed on the product they wish to purchase, they arrive with money in the bank, and if the guy on the stall is friendly enough, they make a purchase at the 'airshow discount price' ( the vendors even carry stock to sell)
Here in OZ, it seems vendors prefer to present their product to you at the show, make a contact and meet with you later, rather than make a hard sell there and then. I've noticed this in both aviation and automotive (my own industry) I've been to many auto trade shows, and when you expressed an interest in something they hand you the std literature and send you on your way. If you expressed an intention to purchase then the whole persona changed. They don't try to corner you into a buy now (plenty of that available if you want) but they take your details, spend and extra 5 mins with you, with an undertaking to get a rep to contact you.
The last trade show I went to, as i was relocating and my major interest was int he purchase of an oven....depending on model 40-120k investment. The sellers used the show well, and the following several weeks were spent being wined and dined to win my business.
I think the vendors at the show are following this formula.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I got my ticket as a gift, else may have not gone..
I'd like to thank the staff at Tristar Aviation for the dead head ride into the show in the back of ABI.
Cheers
Jas
hmmm sounds a lil pricy.
VH-XXX gave some other examples..........the massage...provided its quality Reiki tops the list.
However...lets have a look.......
I arrived on field at roughly 1000, departed at 1630. So basically 8.5 hours 'entertainment'
60/8.5= $7.05 per hour.
Thats cheap entertainment in anyones language....you can't even fuel a jabiru for that!.
The show relies on the public paying the dollars....according to the commentator on Satd'y there were over 100k heads in attendance....without that, no show!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Oshkosh Vs Avalon...buyers perspective.
You simply cannot compare. It is the attendee's that drive the difference.
At oshkosh, most 'buyers' arrive reasonably well informed on the product they wish to purchase, they arrive with money in the bank, and if the guy on the stall is friendly enough, they make a purchase at the 'airshow discount price' ( the vendors even carry stock to sell)
Here in OZ, it seems vendors prefer to present their product to you at the show, make a contact and meet with you later, rather than make a hard sell there and then. I've noticed this in both aviation and automotive (my own industry) I've been to many auto trade shows, and when you expressed an interest in something they hand you the std literature and send you on your way. If you expressed an intention to purchase then the whole persona changed. They don't try to corner you into a buy now (plenty of that available if you want) but they take your details, spend and extra 5 mins with you, with an undertaking to get a rep to contact you.
The last trade show I went to, as i was relocating and my major interest was int he purchase of an oven....depending on model 40-120k investment. The sellers used the show well, and the following several weeks were spent being wined and dined to win my business.
I think the vendors at the show are following this formula.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I got my ticket as a gift, else may have not gone..
I'd like to thank the staff at Tristar Aviation for the dead head ride into the show in the back of ABI.
Cheers
Jas
Thread Starter
Skystar:
Twisted old man? What are you? Cloud Bunny? Aerosexual? - as Michael O'Leary of Ryanair calls you. The trade displays I saw were full of bored salesmen who, by Friday, were sick to death of listening to aging squadron leaders reliving their youth for the salesmans benefit. The exception being the Garmin guys who followed up with emails on Monday and the nice ladies from Aerospace Materials where I get my Alodine and metals. I DID come away with a nice Half A4 coloured flyer from the CASA stand telling me to be careful about Fatigue and warning me about my responsibilities (obviously in response to the Pel AIr business) and the wonderfully condescending Lycoming brochure about why operating lean of peak is too dangerous for us stupid pilots.
The organisation was excellent but so it was in the Nazi concentration camps.
Your mate bought Two aircraft? The beer can ones and the styrofoam flyer?
The air display was excellent - if you hadn't seen it multiple times before. For my money the best display was the First (?) when the Russians brought their Sukhois (?) and showed up everyone else.
..And what the hell are solar race cars doing in an aviation show? At least this time we were spared the military re-enactment fantasists squeezed into old uniforms and driving jeeps.
Sorry Mods.
Sunfish, you are a twisted old man if I can say so. After visiting on the trade day and the public I enjoyed every single minute of it. Perhaps it was the manner of how you approached them?
Although I didn't spend any money the chap I was with did put an order down on two aircraft. Every booth we attended we were met with professionalism. Showed us around when asked if we could view the 'product'
The open day for the public was absolute awesome. Thumbs up to all involved very well organized.
Although I didn't spend any money the chap I was with did put an order down on two aircraft. Every booth we attended we were met with professionalism. Showed us around when asked if we could view the 'product'
The open day for the public was absolute awesome. Thumbs up to all involved very well organized.
The organisation was excellent but so it was in the Nazi concentration camps.
Your mate bought Two aircraft? The beer can ones and the styrofoam flyer?
The air display was excellent - if you hadn't seen it multiple times before. For my money the best display was the First (?) when the Russians brought their Sukhois (?) and showed up everyone else.
..And what the hell are solar race cars doing in an aviation show? At least this time we were spared the military re-enactment fantasists squeezed into old uniforms and driving jeeps.
Sorry Mods.
Last edited by Sunfish; 5th Mar 2013 at 17:49.
The QLink Q400 ( LQK ) was used by Bombardier for the week, borrowed from Brisvegas.
Flew in Mon before the show and left the following Mon back to Bne.
Wasn't there for "Qantas"
Flew in Mon before the show and left the following Mon back to Bne.
Wasn't there for "Qantas"
And what the hell are solar race cars doing in an aviation show?
At least this time we were spared the military re-enactment fantasists
squeezed into old uniforms and driving jeeps.
squeezed into old uniforms and driving jeeps.
By biggest complaint is the time it takes to get through the car parking gates. It took me an hour from when I crossed the freeway just past Lara to park the car. Instead of having a choke point to pay the $10 why not have a pre-paid line or have the collectors walk down the line of cars?
For a family of 5 (family pass $120.00 2 student concessions $100.00)the day cost $220.00 just to get through the gates so no its not a cheap day out.