Avalon Air Show - Waste Of Time
If someone tried honeyed words on me at Avalon, I mights have put a deposit on a new diesel powered c182 and forgotten about what I'm building.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: on the beach :-)
Age: 50
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
potential!
Sunny, seriously, go to OSH & you'll see what aviation is about 
As a 17 year old I got an another part time job, midnight to 6am working the graveyard shift in the dodgy hamburger bar in the seedy corner of the Square - the notorious Doghouse - for a year plus, cleaning up the vomit of drunks, drug addicts, prostitutes and the homeless from the counter, the floor, and 20 cent video games (remember Defender?) to save up the money to go to Oshkosh with Grandad. No one in our family to pay for a trip overseas and the money from all my other jobs was going into the PPL lessons so it was get another job to get to fabled Oshkosh - and boy was it worth it!
Oshkos was a religious experience and forever changed how I looked at aviation. Thousands of aircraft, hundreds of thousands of enthusiasts and just the electric feeling in the air of . . . potential.
Shawn D. Tucker moved me from entering the IFR world to that of old planes and aerobatics. Just unbelievable.
Grandad left his pride and joy camera on the flight line as we went in search of Hotdogs and the fabled delicacy for me, Mountain Dew. After a few hours he suddenly released his camera and bag were missing. Racing back to where we had been hours ago, everything was still there. Tens of thousands had walked by and no one had stolen anything!
Each night we were invited out to dinner by new Yanks we met and there was just such a feeling of camaraderie and potential.
Really makes me sad to hear of the CASA strong arm approach and ramp checks at Avalon. Wish we had a culture of pilots standing up more to parasitic officials than passively taking their BS. If someone got a $5000 dollar fine for not having a lock on his aircraft . . . come on thats just not right. Seriously those CASA dudes need pysch testing and any without a love of aviation prevented from working for the Authority.
'Airshow' - where birds of a feather flock together and sparks of awe are lit in the hearts of the young so they can return to the landbound world to themselves inspire others and lift them with joy in their hearts to those most scared halls of wonder - the lofty skies above.
Two decades later I still have dreams about Oshkosh . . .
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 2nd Mar 2013 at 18:25.
inside the halls,only appx 50% exhibitors left. Blank booths
There really needs to be something in the exhibitor regulations in future to ensure that the booths are manned for the entire show.
Bevan..
Thread Starter
Arnold and VH-XXX, if someone twisted my arm excessively and made me a business case,, I could spring for a new C182 as I could still fly it without a class II medical if necessary. However it doesn't quite fit my plans at present. My partner is undergoing chemotherapy at Peter Mac so all those long trips and the purchase of a country property suitable for aviation are on hold until her cancer is resolved one way or the other.
As for worrying about costs? My sailing friend is a billionaire, a very bright and intelligent old bloke, and he doesn't spend a cent more than he has to on anything. I try and follow his example.
What I noticed about Avalon was that little if any selling was going on.
As for worrying about costs? My sailing friend is a billionaire, a very bright and intelligent old bloke, and he doesn't spend a cent more than he has to on anything. I try and follow his example.
What I noticed about Avalon was that little if any selling was going on.
Last edited by Sunfish; 2nd Mar 2013 at 20:15.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,094
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm an employee of the Avalon Airshow and like many other employees and volunteers have been working very hard to produce a good air show, all the time coming up against budgetary constraints, like everyone else, including exhibitors both civilian and military. It is good to see that the majority of people understand this and enjoyed the show we have produced.
Unfortunately exhibitors can't be forced to stay for the public days, they are there to sell and when the selling is over they leave, cutting down on hotel costs, transport costs etc. so that their employees can be gainfully employed elsewhere. Serious buyers will probably have contacted the exhibitor of their interest first, may even have got their trade day invites from them, the hard facts are that very few, if any, of the public day viewers are serious buyers. As has been mentioned, the professional salesman knows instinctively who the serious buyers are, regardless of clothes or demeanour.
Sunfish - I see that, as usual, both wires are connected to the negative terminal! Avalon 2013 may have been a waste of time for you personally but fortunately not for the majority of the other 189,999 visitors. The title of this thread is very unfair and misleading, how about contacting the Mods and asking them to delete the "waste of time"?
Unfortunately exhibitors can't be forced to stay for the public days, they are there to sell and when the selling is over they leave, cutting down on hotel costs, transport costs etc. so that their employees can be gainfully employed elsewhere. Serious buyers will probably have contacted the exhibitor of their interest first, may even have got their trade day invites from them, the hard facts are that very few, if any, of the public day viewers are serious buyers. As has been mentioned, the professional salesman knows instinctively who the serious buyers are, regardless of clothes or demeanour.
Sunfish - I see that, as usual, both wires are connected to the negative terminal! Avalon 2013 may have been a waste of time for you personally but fortunately not for the majority of the other 189,999 visitors. The title of this thread is very unfair and misleading, how about contacting the Mods and asking them to delete the "waste of time"?
Last edited by parabellum; 2nd Mar 2013 at 20:45.
Parabellum is dead right - the title of this thread is an insult to the many many aviation professionals and enthusiastic people who have slaved away to make Avalon happen. Bringing the acts together doesn't just happen on a whim. The trade days were spectacularly succesful for what they are intended to do, and the public days so far have been outstanding. And I am not hearing too many people in the crowd complaining that the raptor, the F-18 four ship, Matt Hall, the Breitling team, Mark Jefferies and Melissa/Rex/Skip are a waste of time. As for the night display - breathtaking.
Thread Starter
Parabellum, for me it was a waste of time. As an air display Avalon and its organizers and staff, including your goodself, deserve every credit. The weather has at last been kind and I am quite sure that the members of the General Public who will flock there today will have a safe and highly enjoyable outing.
However, I have been to every Avalon airshow that has been held and I really don't need to see another F18 demonstration until perhaps I'm lucky enough to have some grandchildren to take along. I was looking for stuff relevent to GA pilots and unfortunately it looks like what is left of the GA and RA business community voted with their feet by not attending. I did discover that a Garmin GTN635 will control a garmin remote transponder which is valuable information, and I also discovered that Lycoming doesn't market its products very well - which is also valuable.
If its any consolation I spent about $100 - $60 for entry and the rest on food and drink.
Others have pointed out that Pilots visiting by air are targetted for a CASA ramping which is also a negative.
Good luck to you and Bluesky
However, I have been to every Avalon airshow that has been held and I really don't need to see another F18 demonstration until perhaps I'm lucky enough to have some grandchildren to take along. I was looking for stuff relevent to GA pilots and unfortunately it looks like what is left of the GA and RA business community voted with their feet by not attending. I did discover that a Garmin GTN635 will control a garmin remote transponder which is valuable information, and I also discovered that Lycoming doesn't market its products very well - which is also valuable.
If its any consolation I spent about $100 - $60 for entry and the rest on food and drink.
Others have pointed out that Pilots visiting by air are targetted for a CASA ramping which is also a negative.
Good luck to you and Bluesky
Last edited by Sunfish; 2nd Mar 2013 at 21:26.
So folks - has anyone actually been ramped at Avalon East to date? Asked a few pals who flew in and they haven't seen/heard anything during their visits?
Not sure about Sat / Sun. Maybe they only work 9-5 Mon - Fri?
go on Sunny . . . do the fair minded thing, as asked.
What am I missing? How can you be legal flying a 182 without holding class two? (or presumably class one.)
Anyway, thanks for sharing the pattern of your thinking. Hope the
treatment works all for the best. (A well read old aviator of vast experience in many fields was talking at a Toastmasters' meeting the other day. He had it . In the larynx . After much study and consultation gave chemo a miss. Went with a wonder supplement called Mannatech. All gone. Many other startling similar case studies evidently.)
Thread Starter
Fantome, the new CASA exemption is to the effect that if you lose your class II medical you can still fly (with restrictions) provided you can obtain a doctors certificate that you meet the standard to drive a car and you forward same to CASA.
The restrictions are day VFR only, under 10000ft, One Passenger, and a weight limit of 1500 kg which just lets in a C182 (MTOW 1414 kg.). There are some disqualifying medical conditions as well, one of which is any cancer other than properly managed Basal Skin cell stuff.
read it here:
CASA EX68/12 - Exemption - from holding a class 2 medical certificate
The restrictions are day VFR only, under 10000ft, One Passenger, and a weight limit of 1500 kg which just lets in a C182 (MTOW 1414 kg.). There are some disqualifying medical conditions as well, one of which is any cancer other than properly managed Basal Skin cell stuff.
read it here:
CASA EX68/12 - Exemption - from holding a class 2 medical certificate
Last edited by Sunfish; 2nd Mar 2013 at 22:02.
I don't think I'll fly in again. Just not worth the angst. Which also means I'm less likely to go. It also is a very very bad look in front of passengers.
I think a thing about the airshow is that because the exhibition halls are so prominent, GA people think there is something for them there. But the major focus is on military. There are 4 trade days and 2 1/2 public days. The trade days include a whole host of activities that are not immediately evident. Technical lectures, site visits - all sorts of things. There was some great stuff in the exhibition halls and I had a good time. Deakin uni was there with some ground-breaking kevlar production technology that I got a lot out of. But very little of it was GA related. The defence and professional guys must get good value, because they keep coming back and taking big stands and chalets. That's where the real money is. Guys like us buying maps, books, EPIRBS and other stuff are really just window dressing.
The airshow is the pinnacle of Australian airshows. At others you can get closer to warbirds, etc. But Avalon is the only place you can see a Raptor and wonder how it flies. Its the only place you'll see such an amazing piece of showmanship from a Schweizer 300. Its a small thing, but the job the Extra pilot did to fly close to the deadline in knife-edge on a day with a strong crosswind was masterful. The sun caught the aircraft and you could see every twitch of the controls. He was working very hard.
The thing the airshow has never really been able to do well is integrate GA. Part of the issue (I suspect) is that the displays and aircraft need to be there a week prior. The ideal would be to be able to set up a GA community on the Friday that was only present for the public days. But that would be logistically difficult. Its also likely to have CASA all over it. I don't know why we don't really have Australian Acts at the airshow anymore. The early Avalon airshows did. I suspect that part of the answer lies in the grief that CASA gives local guys and that their ability to "monster" foreign pilots in foreign registered aircraft is just a lot less. No one in an N-registered aircraft would have taken the cr*ap we had to from a CASA ramp guy.
If you accept it for what it is, I think its pretty good. Maybe the challenge is to create a seperate GA airshow that showcases local flying schools, has a park & sell aircraft area, gets the likes of Garmin, Avidyne & Aspen displaying GA stuff and pilot shops selling a raft of pilot shop stuff. But, I used to run airshows in the eighties and I don't think I would want to do it again with the current attitude in CASA. In the olden days they'd help you to work around the rules. Now they're searching for the obscure regulation to hit you with.
I think a thing about the airshow is that because the exhibition halls are so prominent, GA people think there is something for them there. But the major focus is on military. There are 4 trade days and 2 1/2 public days. The trade days include a whole host of activities that are not immediately evident. Technical lectures, site visits - all sorts of things. There was some great stuff in the exhibition halls and I had a good time. Deakin uni was there with some ground-breaking kevlar production technology that I got a lot out of. But very little of it was GA related. The defence and professional guys must get good value, because they keep coming back and taking big stands and chalets. That's where the real money is. Guys like us buying maps, books, EPIRBS and other stuff are really just window dressing.
The airshow is the pinnacle of Australian airshows. At others you can get closer to warbirds, etc. But Avalon is the only place you can see a Raptor and wonder how it flies. Its the only place you'll see such an amazing piece of showmanship from a Schweizer 300. Its a small thing, but the job the Extra pilot did to fly close to the deadline in knife-edge on a day with a strong crosswind was masterful. The sun caught the aircraft and you could see every twitch of the controls. He was working very hard.
The thing the airshow has never really been able to do well is integrate GA. Part of the issue (I suspect) is that the displays and aircraft need to be there a week prior. The ideal would be to be able to set up a GA community on the Friday that was only present for the public days. But that would be logistically difficult. Its also likely to have CASA all over it. I don't know why we don't really have Australian Acts at the airshow anymore. The early Avalon airshows did. I suspect that part of the answer lies in the grief that CASA gives local guys and that their ability to "monster" foreign pilots in foreign registered aircraft is just a lot less. No one in an N-registered aircraft would have taken the cr*ap we had to from a CASA ramp guy.
If you accept it for what it is, I think its pretty good. Maybe the challenge is to create a seperate GA airshow that showcases local flying schools, has a park & sell aircraft area, gets the likes of Garmin, Avidyne & Aspen displaying GA stuff and pilot shops selling a raft of pilot shop stuff. But, I used to run airshows in the eighties and I don't think I would want to do it again with the current attitude in CASA. In the olden days they'd help you to work around the rules. Now they're searching for the obscure regulation to hit you with.
Last edited by Old Akro; 2nd Mar 2013 at 22:04.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 59
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Feedback from the General public so far is that they have found
it excellent and that includes people who have been before.
Plenty of newbies haven't seen a proper FA/18 display before,
just a fly past so to them the liked it.
Anyway, well done to all.
it excellent and that includes people who have been before.
Plenty of newbies haven't seen a proper FA/18 display before,
just a fly past so to them the liked it.
Anyway, well done to all.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That was a proper F-18 display? I reckon the Blue Angels would beg to differ!
If you expect GA stuff, it's a waste of time, except for a few aircraft dealers. It's not billed as an Oshkosh, so I wasn't expecting any of that.
I had a quick chat with MP when I was about to depart on Saturday morning, but I didn't get ramped.
I have heard from others that got ramped and what they were looking for, some of it seems a little far fetched.
If there actually was a statistical case of people getting into trouble through dodgy flight planning and progress note keeping and the like or aircraft being stolen and used as weapon for lack of throttle locks, I would be happy for enforcement. But nothing I have heard tells me this is the case; so why penalise people when there is no problem?
The only problem seems to be that people are not following all the rules, not that not following all the rules actually causes problems...
(MP tells me that, like at NATFLY and AUSFLY, the focus is on education, not fining people for not having a W&B sheet or fuel log. I hope that is true!)
If you expect GA stuff, it's a waste of time, except for a few aircraft dealers. It's not billed as an Oshkosh, so I wasn't expecting any of that.
I had a quick chat with MP when I was about to depart on Saturday morning, but I didn't get ramped.
I have heard from others that got ramped and what they were looking for, some of it seems a little far fetched.
If there actually was a statistical case of people getting into trouble through dodgy flight planning and progress note keeping and the like or aircraft being stolen and used as weapon for lack of throttle locks, I would be happy for enforcement. But nothing I have heard tells me this is the case; so why penalise people when there is no problem?
The only problem seems to be that people are not following all the rules, not that not following all the rules actually causes problems...
(MP tells me that, like at NATFLY and AUSFLY, the focus is on education, not fining people for not having a W&B sheet or fuel log. I hope that is true!)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The most enjoyable thing for me was the GLEX fly past on Saturday morning before it departed.
Avplan next update and future developments
The Pitts and Edge 540 display was outstanding
Having seen the raptor display in US airshows it was rather tame. Probably a lot more restrictions/regulations here then over there
Avplan next update and future developments
The Pitts and Edge 540 display was outstanding
Having seen the raptor display in US airshows it was rather tame. Probably a lot more restrictions/regulations here then over there
SF
Think about it. Every year there are grandfathers who are lucky enough to take their grandsons along for the first time.
Would you rob them of the enjoyment of seeing the wonderment in their grandsons eyes for the first time?
I'm lucky enough to have some grandchildren to take along.
Would you rob them of the enjoyment of seeing the wonderment in their grandsons eyes for the first time?