CASA Suspends Barrier Aviation Operations
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Is that not the lesson learned time and time again that leads to the separation of powers with the government, police and judiciary? One creates the laws, one enforces the laws and one validates the justness of the laws.
The part that seems to be missing from what I read here is the issue of redress. Without a doubt CASA should have the power to shut someone down should they have sufficient evidence that they believe there is a risk to safety. However those affected should have the right to challenge that and present their case. It seems in the case of Barrier, CASA dropped the notice then immediately asked a judge to drag it out for another 3 months. I am assuming that all moved too quickly for Barrier to challenge or question it properly in front of a judge. Maybe it is too complex an issue to be settled so quickly, but surely if CASA has enough to back their judgement it should be enough for a learned judge to weigh up the risks vs the impact and decide the course of action.
That said, a lot on here sounds like when people get upset at the cops for pulling them over for doing 120 in an 80 zone. Honestly they were not speeding, it wasnt that bad, I do it all the time, the cop is just on a power trip.
The part that seems to be missing from what I read here is the issue of redress. Without a doubt CASA should have the power to shut someone down should they have sufficient evidence that they believe there is a risk to safety. However those affected should have the right to challenge that and present their case. It seems in the case of Barrier, CASA dropped the notice then immediately asked a judge to drag it out for another 3 months. I am assuming that all moved too quickly for Barrier to challenge or question it properly in front of a judge. Maybe it is too complex an issue to be settled so quickly, but surely if CASA has enough to back their judgement it should be enough for a learned judge to weigh up the risks vs the impact and decide the course of action.
That said, a lot on here sounds like when people get upset at the cops for pulling them over for doing 120 in an 80 zone. Honestly they were not speeding, it wasnt that bad, I do it all the time, the cop is just on a power trip.
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SgtBundy,
There is no CASA enforcement that cannot be appealed legally. That applies to this matter as well. Barrier could have tested the legality of the CASA decision and because of the implications of being shut down, a court will move rapidly to conduct at least an interim hearing to determine whether or not the initial CASA action should stand until a full hearing can be undertaken.
A company that I once worked for was deemed to be conducting RPT operations and had their AOC suspended. The same day the company lodged a notice of appeal that invoked an automatic stay. A hearing was conducted about a month later to determine whether a stay of proceedings should be made. In the meantime the company was able to continue trading.
Caper P/L v CASA
Now I have some serious doubts about the AAT as the appropriate forum to test aviation matters but that is another argument. Suffice to say that there are avenues that an aggrieved operator has but it costs and it may be phyrric victory.
There is no CASA enforcement that cannot be appealed legally. That applies to this matter as well. Barrier could have tested the legality of the CASA decision and because of the implications of being shut down, a court will move rapidly to conduct at least an interim hearing to determine whether or not the initial CASA action should stand until a full hearing can be undertaken.
A company that I once worked for was deemed to be conducting RPT operations and had their AOC suspended. The same day the company lodged a notice of appeal that invoked an automatic stay. A hearing was conducted about a month later to determine whether a stay of proceedings should be made. In the meantime the company was able to continue trading.
Caper P/L v CASA
Now I have some serious doubts about the AAT as the appropriate forum to test aviation matters but that is another argument. Suffice to say that there are avenues that an aggrieved operator has but it costs and it may be phyrric victory.
Now I have some serious doubts about the AAT as the appropriate forum to test aviation matters but that is another argument
As the AAT is no longer a cheap avenue of appeal, I am surprised that, where possible, the Administrative Decisions Judicial Review Act is not used more often, proceedings before a Federal Court are far more rigorous than in the AAT.
Tootle pip!!
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Mach E Avelli:
Even the term for what is now a NCN, "Request for Corrective Action" sent a totally wrong signal that it was only something that CASA would 'like' you to do, not something you 'had' to do. It was frustrating getting the message across. The American term 'Violation' has much more impact.
Even the term for what is now a NCN, "Request for Corrective Action" sent a totally wrong signal that it was only something that CASA would 'like' you to do, not something you 'had' to do. It was frustrating getting the message across. The American term 'Violation' has much more impact.
Last edited by halfmanhalfbiscuit; 11th Jan 2013 at 18:04. Reason: removed some opinions
However, if you wish to use the word "violation" you had better be able to prove it.
It appears that the NCN and show cause process is easier for CASA to employ because it's "sloppy".
When I spent some time in the Victorian public service as a specialist in the engineering industry, no "slop" was allowed. Facts had to be verified and woe betide you if you confused fact and opinion.
It appears that the NCN and show cause process is easier for CASA to employ because it's "sloppy".
When I spent some time in the Victorian public service as a specialist in the engineering industry, no "slop" was allowed. Facts had to be verified and woe betide you if you confused fact and opinion.
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rules / regs
Some posters above seem to have complicated a very simple procedure.
I personally think regulations pertaining to maintenance on Aircraft within Australia are extraordinarily simple. If you take the time to break down the rules and regs surrounding commercial aircraft maintenance in Australia you will come up with the following.
If it’s broken, fix it or buy a new one. If it looks asthough it is suffering from wear and tear repair it or replace it before it gets worse.
If you do repair, fix and or renew defective parts before they become defective or as soon as you are aware they are defective you will not ever have CASA or anyone else accusing you of running around in broken down machines. You will not make a lot ofmoney either. But you will be operating an aircraft which is as safe as that aircraft can be. How easy is that ?.
I personally think regulations pertaining to maintenance on Aircraft within Australia are extraordinarily simple. If you take the time to break down the rules and regs surrounding commercial aircraft maintenance in Australia you will come up with the following.
If it’s broken, fix it or buy a new one. If it looks asthough it is suffering from wear and tear repair it or replace it before it gets worse.
If you do repair, fix and or renew defective parts before they become defective or as soon as you are aware they are defective you will not ever have CASA or anyone else accusing you of running around in broken down machines. You will not make a lot ofmoney either. But you will be operating an aircraft which is as safe as that aircraft can be. How easy is that ?.
I have some serious doubts about the AAT as the appropriate forum to test aviation matters
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PLovett;
Can you give me any point of contact for enabling me, (for example), to do this at 4:55 PM on any Friday or Christmas Eve'. Most Lawyers are in the Pub after 12 Noon on Friday's.
The matter of extending the grounding only exacerbates the financial losses and generally a Company goes under not being able to service it's debts. Not to mention Employee entitlements.
could have tested the legality of the CASA decision and because of the implications of being shut down, a court will move rapidly to conduct at least an interim hearing to determine whether or not the initial CASA action should stand until a full hearing can be undertaken.
The matter of extending the grounding only exacerbates the financial losses and generally a Company goes under not being able to service it's debts. Not to mention Employee entitlements.
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Frank,
All courts have an emergency system in place for such occasions. How do you think the criminal system can find a magistrate at ungodly hours in the morning when required?
I have applied for emergency orders in the Family Court where it was suspected that a parent was about to remove their child from the state. The court heard the matter by telephone and made interim orders within 5 minutes.
I can't give you a point of contact now as I haven't worked as a lawyer for over 15 years but the legal system is well aware of the need for urgent intervention and it can be done.
Agreed. The legal system requires deep pockets unfortunately but then so should aviation otherwise you are a problem waiting to happen.
All courts have an emergency system in place for such occasions. How do you think the criminal system can find a magistrate at ungodly hours in the morning when required?
I have applied for emergency orders in the Family Court where it was suspected that a parent was about to remove their child from the state. The court heard the matter by telephone and made interim orders within 5 minutes.
I can't give you a point of contact now as I haven't worked as a lawyer for over 15 years but the legal system is well aware of the need for urgent intervention and it can be done.
The matter of extending the grounding only exacerbates the financial losses and generally a Company goes under not being able to service it's debts. Not to mention Employee entitlements.
... I am surprised that, where possible, the Administrative Decisions Judicial Review Act is not used more often, proceedings before a Federal Court are far more rigorous than in the AAT.
The Federal Court does not have jurisdiction to review the merits of administrative decisions.
The Federal Court can award costs. (You'd better know WTF you're doing. Do you really want to be in debt to pay CASA's costs?)
All recent wars fought in the Federal Court against CASA have been won by CASA. (A few interlocutory and first-instance battles were won by applicants along the way, but CASA won the substantive wars in the Full Court.)
But I could be giving an inaccurate or incomplete picture. I'd suggest aggrieved industry participants contact Leaddie for advice.
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Have had a chat with a very well informed individual.
Some asked about the "informant":
Apparently ex NZ ATC, Dash 8 FO with a PNG operator, they suggested he / she leave the company and gain some command experience elsewhere ( we all know what that means ).
The fable I was told, this person was employed by one of Barriers competitors, the bigger Torres operator, they apparently sacked this individual after a month.
Sometime later was employed by Barrier, in a very short time had multiple issues, this person had a bit of a hard on for the bigger company and went out of his/her way to cause grief for the competition.
Apparently did not play well with others ( including his own company ) and was non compliant with the COM ( because he/she knew better ), apparently pulled out in front of two aircraft that were on finals on separate occasions, I believe one was at MBG, then the second one at CCT or WBR.
He / she blamed everyone else for these events, after the events were investigated by the company, he /she was sacked, this was circa July
2012.
Apparently this pilot has scampered back to NZ for a jet job.
Individuals name is now well known in Torres / FNQ ( not by my actions ).
Some asked about the "informant":
Apparently ex NZ ATC, Dash 8 FO with a PNG operator, they suggested he / she leave the company and gain some command experience elsewhere ( we all know what that means ).
The fable I was told, this person was employed by one of Barriers competitors, the bigger Torres operator, they apparently sacked this individual after a month.
Sometime later was employed by Barrier, in a very short time had multiple issues, this person had a bit of a hard on for the bigger company and went out of his/her way to cause grief for the competition.
Apparently did not play well with others ( including his own company ) and was non compliant with the COM ( because he/she knew better ), apparently pulled out in front of two aircraft that were on finals on separate occasions, I believe one was at MBG, then the second one at CCT or WBR.
He / she blamed everyone else for these events, after the events were investigated by the company, he /she was sacked, this was circa July
2012.
Apparently this pilot has scampered back to NZ for a jet job.
Individuals name is now well known in Torres / FNQ ( not by my actions ).
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Come on everbody, GA is infested with old plane and old minds.And if you think CASA is over regulating the industry, go compete in the mining industry in a 1967 D9 Dozer.
That is probably because there are no 35 year old Dash 8 airframes in existence. They were introduced and entered service in 1984 making them at the oldest in their late 20s (like I still wish I was)....
Regards,
OpsN.
Regards,
OpsN.
I still wish I was...
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So did the Federal Court - so much so that they overturned the AAT's ruling in that case
Incidentally, the result of which should send shivers down the spine of any FIFO operator who does not have RPT on their AOC because, despite the ramblings of the judge in question about such operations, they could just as easily come under the same logic as he applied to the Directair flights.
VH QQB
Power Driven Aeroplane with TRICYCLE-RETRACTABLE landing gear
2 Turboprop engines
Manufacturer: DE HAVILLAND CANADA
Model: DHC-8-102
Serial number: 004
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 29 December 1988
Year of manufacture: 1983
Power Driven Aeroplane with TRICYCLE-RETRACTABLE landing gear
2 Turboprop engines
Manufacturer: DE HAVILLAND CANADA
Model: DHC-8-102
Serial number: 004
Aircraft first registered in Australia: 29 December 1988
Year of manufacture: 1983
New Direction:
Actually not always that easy - which is why there are LAMES..
Unless thing s have changed, on larger aircraft parts are classified as "Hard time" - meaning they have a definite life in cycles or hours. "On condition" - meaning that when the fail you replace them. The last category is "condition monitored" - meaning that you examine their condition from time to time and decide if they are within tolerances or not.
It might surprise some people to discover that the nozzle guide vanes and turbine blades of some engines can look like half sucked icecreams and the engine is still acceptable.
Similarly all sorts of parts can be worn, cracked, corroded and yet the aircraft is still serviceable (well at least that is what the MR says).
The PBO (poor bloody operator) is simply trying to maximise the economic life of their equipment and sometimes the difference between serviceable and unserviceable is in the eye of the beholder.
Some posters above seem to have complicated a very simple procedure.
I personally think regulations pertaining to maintenance on Aircraft within Australia are extraordinarily simple. If you take the time to break down the rules and regs surrounding commercial aircraft maintenance in Australia you will come up with the following.
If it’s broken, fix it or buy a new one. If it looks asthough it is suffering from wear and tear repair it or replace it before it gets worse.
If you do repair, fix and or renew defective parts before they become defective or as soon as you are aware they are defective you will not ever have CASA or anyone else accusing you of running around in broken down machines. You will not make a lot ofmoney either. But you will be operating an aircraft which is as safe as that aircraft can be. How easy is that ?.
I personally think regulations pertaining to maintenance on Aircraft within Australia are extraordinarily simple. If you take the time to break down the rules and regs surrounding commercial aircraft maintenance in Australia you will come up with the following.
If it’s broken, fix it or buy a new one. If it looks asthough it is suffering from wear and tear repair it or replace it before it gets worse.
If you do repair, fix and or renew defective parts before they become defective or as soon as you are aware they are defective you will not ever have CASA or anyone else accusing you of running around in broken down machines. You will not make a lot ofmoney either. But you will be operating an aircraft which is as safe as that aircraft can be. How easy is that ?.
Unless thing s have changed, on larger aircraft parts are classified as "Hard time" - meaning they have a definite life in cycles or hours. "On condition" - meaning that when the fail you replace them. The last category is "condition monitored" - meaning that you examine their condition from time to time and decide if they are within tolerances or not.
It might surprise some people to discover that the nozzle guide vanes and turbine blades of some engines can look like half sucked icecreams and the engine is still acceptable.
Similarly all sorts of parts can be worn, cracked, corroded and yet the aircraft is still serviceable (well at least that is what the MR says).
The PBO (poor bloody operator) is simply trying to maximise the economic life of their equipment and sometimes the difference between serviceable and unserviceable is in the eye of the beholder.
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The PBO (poor bloody operator) is simply trying to maximise the economic life of their equipment and sometimes the difference between serviceable and unserviceable is in the eye of the beholder.