CASA Suspends Barrier Aviation Operations
Why oh why do some people fight change so much. Wouldnt everbody like see GA reformed, new prices to reflect new machinery. And for all the uses of wikipedia and the dictionary out there, my reference to new does mean brand spanking, fresh off the factory floor. This is a forum, full explanation of every word and subject is a little to much. I realise there is 100s of pilots wanting a newish (is that a better term for the wordsmiths) aircraft. Well guess what, thats what we should be trying to push, not knocking and slandering others. Far from saying "im all right", im saying lets push for a change, check back on a few of my posts regarding updating fleets, people and business pratices.
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Why would anyone in their right mind invest millions of dollars in fleet modernisation, when there is no security of tenure and a Friday night fax at the sole discretion and determination of a public servant, can end the dream? 
And any honest operator that does invest in quality, modern aircraft, is forced to cut his hire rate due to competition from Fred the Spiv next door with his cross hired, under maintained cr*p and unpaid, inexperienced, "work experience" pilots.
And buy and operate Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC12 and the operator gets put through the wringer by CASA putting the aircraft on an AOC, amending the Operations and Maintenance manuals and gaining IFR approval.
A DUI driver gets to drive until the Court suspends his/her license. A criminal gets his immediate bail and committal hearings in a properly constituted Court. Even an illegal immigrant gets free travel, board, meals and a sympathetic ear.
But the arch deviant of the skies gets grounded for a month or two .... or three ... with no immediate, reasonable Judicial recourse, on the whim and determination of a totally unaccountable public servant.
And you wonder why the industry has attracted more than its share of shonks and spivs, with most operators grossly under capitalised with under or un paid pilots, and is full of decrepit tired, clapped out aircraft that have passed their use by date and are mostly older than the pilots that fly them?
And any honest operator that does invest in quality, modern aircraft, is forced to cut his hire rate due to competition from Fred the Spiv next door with his cross hired, under maintained cr*p and unpaid, inexperienced, "work experience" pilots.
And buy and operate Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC12 and the operator gets put through the wringer by CASA putting the aircraft on an AOC, amending the Operations and Maintenance manuals and gaining IFR approval.
A DUI driver gets to drive until the Court suspends his/her license. A criminal gets his immediate bail and committal hearings in a properly constituted Court. Even an illegal immigrant gets free travel, board, meals and a sympathetic ear.
But the arch deviant of the skies gets grounded for a month or two .... or three ... with no immediate, reasonable Judicial recourse, on the whim and determination of a totally unaccountable public servant.
And you wonder why the industry has attracted more than its share of shonks and spivs, with most operators grossly under capitalised with under or un paid pilots, and is full of decrepit tired, clapped out aircraft that have passed their use by date and are mostly older than the pilots that fly them?
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Most that washed out of the industry now "work" for CAsA.
Gives one great confidence dealing with people who, by nature, have a "chip on their shoulder".
I won't invest a cent into the industry until the rules are understandable, simple, are based on The Rule of Law, with due recourse to redressing wrongs, the AAT in its current form is is shut down, and the rug pulled out from underneath CAsA and its petty employees, (if one can call them that), are treated like the criminal element that some aptly display, serve time, and are "Rogered" by their new peers in The Grey Stone College.
Gives one great confidence dealing with people who, by nature, have a "chip on their shoulder".
I won't invest a cent into the industry until the rules are understandable, simple, are based on The Rule of Law, with due recourse to redressing wrongs, the AAT in its current form is is shut down, and the rug pulled out from underneath CAsA and its petty employees, (if one can call them that), are treated like the criminal element that some aptly display, serve time, and are "Rogered" by their new peers in The Grey Stone College.
A DUI driver gets to drive until the Court suspends his/her license.
A criminal gets his immediate bail and committal hearings in a properly constituted Court.
Even an illegal immigrant gets free travel, board, meals and a sympathetic ear.
And buy and operate Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC12 and the operator gets put through the wringer by CASA putting the aircraft on an AOC, amending the Operations and Maintenance manuals and gaining IFR approval.
Last edited by Creampuff; 10th Jan 2013 at 06:09.
Taillie, much of what you say makes sense. But old mates Barrier appear to be on the carpet precisely for having as you so succinctly put it "under maintained cr@p".
From what we garner they have been sufficiently naughty to warrant being executed by firing squad.
If it transpires that they have not done anything too serious, they will most certainly have grounds for an almighty settlement.
As for the old under maintained cr@p, the sooner it is ALL recycled into saucepans the better for all. Then those operators who have made an effort with decent turbines might just have a chance, CASA obstructionism notwithstanding.
The bloody GA fleet in PNG - supposed third world country - is light years ahead of our pathetic collection of the world's most tired airframes. Operating in PNG is somewhat aided by reasonable regulations that are easily understood.
CASA PNG needs fixing, but they are still better to deal with than our lot.
From what we garner they have been sufficiently naughty to warrant being executed by firing squad.
If it transpires that they have not done anything too serious, they will most certainly have grounds for an almighty settlement.
As for the old under maintained cr@p, the sooner it is ALL recycled into saucepans the better for all. Then those operators who have made an effort with decent turbines might just have a chance, CASA obstructionism notwithstanding.
The bloody GA fleet in PNG - supposed third world country - is light years ahead of our pathetic collection of the world's most tired airframes. Operating in PNG is somewhat aided by reasonable regulations that are easily understood.
CASA PNG needs fixing, but they are still better to deal with than our lot.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 10th Jan 2013 at 06:59.
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Tailwheel -
Can agree in part, CASA is saying 90 days minimum to put C208 on existing AOC - and make sure the ops manual and FCOM are perfect. Plus $8000.00 up front for assesment.
Mach, yupla gamon manki, noken save displa tok save belong Balus belong PNG
And buy and operate Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC12 and the operator gets put through the wringer by CASA putting the aircraft on an AOC, amending the Operations and Maintenance manuals and gaining IFR approval.
Operating in PNG is somewhat aided by reasonable regulations that are easily
understood.
understood.
Last edited by blackhand; 10th Jan 2013 at 07:14.
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Creamie
In this state a DUI drivers license is automatically suspended for 24 hours, then the recalcitrant may drive until the Courts dictate otherwise. And no, I have no personal experience with the system.
An arrested person has access to a bail hearing and, at the Court's pleasure, may be released to return to work.
Pay attention! No where in my post did I refer to Barrier or it's principals, nor do I have the evidence to ever give an opinion on Barrier.
They may get a bill but how many get paid?
Deep pockets.
In this state a DUI drivers license is automatically suspended for 24 hours, then the recalcitrant may drive until the Courts dictate otherwise. And no, I have no personal experience with the system.
An arrested person has access to a bail hearing and, at the Court's pleasure, may be released to return to work.
Pay attention! No where in my post did I refer to Barrier or it's principals, nor do I have the evidence to ever give an opinion on Barrier.
They may get a bill but how many get paid?
So to what do you attribute the success of successful operators of C208s and PC12s in Australia?
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A criminal gets his immediate bail and committal hearings in a properly constituted Court.
Are the Barrier proprietors in gaol?
Are the Barrier proprietors in gaol?
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Why would anyone in their right mind invest millions of dollars in fleet modernisation, when there is no security of tenure and a Friday night fax at the sole discretion and determination of a public servant, can end the dream?
And any honest operator that does invest in quality, modern aircraft, is forced to cut his hire rate due to competition from Fred the Spiv next door with his cross hired, under maintained cr*p and unpaid, inexperienced, "work experience" pilots.
And buy and operate Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC12 and the operator gets put through the wringer by CASA putting the aircraft on an AOC, amending the Operations and Maintenance manuals and gaining IFR approval.
A DUI driver gets to drive until the Court suspends his/her license. A criminal gets his immediate bail and committal hearings in a properly constituted Court. Even an illegal immigrant gets free travel, board, meals and a sympathetic ear.
But the arch deviant of the skies gets grounded for a month or two .... or three ... with no immediate, reasonable Judicial recourse, on the whim and determination of a totally unaccountable public servant.
And any honest operator that does invest in quality, modern aircraft, is forced to cut his hire rate due to competition from Fred the Spiv next door with his cross hired, under maintained cr*p and unpaid, inexperienced, "work experience" pilots.
And buy and operate Cessna 208 or Pilatus PC12 and the operator gets put through the wringer by CASA putting the aircraft on an AOC, amending the Operations and Maintenance manuals and gaining IFR approval.
A DUI driver gets to drive until the Court suspends his/her license. A criminal gets his immediate bail and committal hearings in a properly constituted Court. Even an illegal immigrant gets free travel, board, meals and a sympathetic ear.
But the arch deviant of the skies gets grounded for a month or two .... or three ... with no immediate, reasonable Judicial recourse, on the whim and determination of a totally unaccountable public servant.
Why does CASA have powers to destroy businesses who are acountable for their activities yet at the same time CASA is not held accountable for their activities?
For those of us long enough in the game to have seen power wielded abitarily by the unaccountable it is truly an eye opener.
Investigator, Administrator, Judge, Educator, Jury, Advisor, Executionor all in one tyrannacial organisation.
Does CASA have an Internal Affairs department hunting out incompetent and corrupt officers in its ranks? If not why not? Countless business lives ride on their whims ... how many times have CASA officials been found guiltily of illegal conduct?
Delay is death for business.
Innocent until proved guiltily - if no one has been proved guiltily why are all being punished?
Unaccountable Power is TYRANY.
Last edited by weloveseaplanes; 10th Jan 2013 at 09:29.
Where are the pitchforks? To the barricades!
"Les Miserables" could really be about Australian GA.
Casting anyone?
"Les Miserables" could really be about Australian GA.
Casting anyone?
Major Characters:
Jean Valjean - (also known as Monsieur Madeleine, Ultime Fauchelevent, Monsieur Leblanc, and Urbain Fabre) – Main Protagonist, convicted for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his sister’s seven starving children and sent to prison for five years,
Javert – A fanatic police inspector. The main antagonist of the novel. Born in the prisons to a convict father and a gypsy mother, he renounces both of them and starts working as a guard in the prison, including one stint as the overseer for the chain gang of which Valjean is part (and here witnesses firsthand Valjean's enormous strength and just what he looks like). Eventually he joins the police force in the small village of Montreuil-sur-Mer. He arrests Fantine and butts heads with Valjean (as M. Madeleine, the mayor of Montreuil-sur-Mer), who orders him to release Fantine. Valjean dismisses Javert in front of his squad and Javert, seeking revenge, reports to the Police Inspector that he has discovered Jean Valjean.
Fantine – A beautiful Parisian grisette abandoned with a small child by her lover Félix Tholomyès. Fantine leaves her daughter Cosette in the care of the Thénardiers, innkeepers in the village of Montfermeil.
Cosette (a nickname, formally Euphrasie, also known as "the Lark", Mademoiselle Lanoire, Ursula) – The illegitimate daughter of Fantine and Tholomyès. From approximately the age of three to the age of eight, she is beaten and forced to work as a drudge for the Thénardiers.
Enjolras – The leader of Les Amis de l'ABC (Friends of the ABC) in the Paris uprising. His followers admire and believe in him. A charming and intimidating man with angelic beauty, he is passionately devoted to democracy, equality and justice.
Gavroche – The unloved middle child and eldest son of the Thénardiers. He lives on his own as a street urchin and sleeps inside an elephant statue outside the Bastille. He briefly takes care of his two younger brothers, unaware they are related to him. He takes part in the barricades and is killed while collecting bullets from dead National Guardsmen.
Jean Valjean - (also known as Monsieur Madeleine, Ultime Fauchelevent, Monsieur Leblanc, and Urbain Fabre) – Main Protagonist, convicted for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his sister’s seven starving children and sent to prison for five years,
Javert – A fanatic police inspector. The main antagonist of the novel. Born in the prisons to a convict father and a gypsy mother, he renounces both of them and starts working as a guard in the prison, including one stint as the overseer for the chain gang of which Valjean is part (and here witnesses firsthand Valjean's enormous strength and just what he looks like). Eventually he joins the police force in the small village of Montreuil-sur-Mer. He arrests Fantine and butts heads with Valjean (as M. Madeleine, the mayor of Montreuil-sur-Mer), who orders him to release Fantine. Valjean dismisses Javert in front of his squad and Javert, seeking revenge, reports to the Police Inspector that he has discovered Jean Valjean.
Fantine – A beautiful Parisian grisette abandoned with a small child by her lover Félix Tholomyès. Fantine leaves her daughter Cosette in the care of the Thénardiers, innkeepers in the village of Montfermeil.
Cosette (a nickname, formally Euphrasie, also known as "the Lark", Mademoiselle Lanoire, Ursula) – The illegitimate daughter of Fantine and Tholomyès. From approximately the age of three to the age of eight, she is beaten and forced to work as a drudge for the Thénardiers.
Enjolras – The leader of Les Amis de l'ABC (Friends of the ABC) in the Paris uprising. His followers admire and believe in him. A charming and intimidating man with angelic beauty, he is passionately devoted to democracy, equality and justice.
Gavroche – The unloved middle child and eldest son of the Thénardiers. He lives on his own as a street urchin and sleeps inside an elephant statue outside the Bastille. He briefly takes care of his two younger brothers, unaware they are related to him. He takes part in the barricades and is killed while collecting bullets from dead National Guardsmen.
CASA's powers are not exclusive. If a health inspector visits a restaurant and finds rats in the rafters or cats on the cutting board, he can close the business without notice. Prosecution follows in due course and even if the defendant can prove that the rats were rabies-free and the cats were sourced from the finest organic/halal/kosher purveyors he is still out of business. There was just such a case in Perth a few years ago. Only the cats and rats did not come with a clean bill of health, so I don't know if any defence was offered.
Retirement care homes have been closed and the patients removed overnight to safer premises. Prosecution followed at a much later date.
A school bus has been put off the road because it was unsafe and the children sent home by alternative means. As the bus operator was a one man-one vehicle business, he lost the contract to the opposition.
If the bus had been an aircraft found to have bogus parts fitted, the same thing would happen, and if that was the operator's main income, end of his aviation ambitions. Even if he had acquired the aircraft second hand and had no knowledge of the bogus parts, he is still stuffed. Caveat emptor.
A whole fleet of aircraft have been grounded because it was found that inspections had been overlooked, not by a few hours or days, but by a very long over-run. No question of waiting for the courts to decide whether the cover-up was deliberate or accidental. Anyone associated with aviation who does not understand that?
We set these authorities up to protect us from ourselves.
I do not like the way CASA do many things, and positively hate their mess of regulations. But aviation businesses should not think that they are somehow to be treated differently from other safety critical endeavours.
The balance is in ensuring that absolute power does not corrupt absolutely.
Retirement care homes have been closed and the patients removed overnight to safer premises. Prosecution followed at a much later date.
A school bus has been put off the road because it was unsafe and the children sent home by alternative means. As the bus operator was a one man-one vehicle business, he lost the contract to the opposition.
If the bus had been an aircraft found to have bogus parts fitted, the same thing would happen, and if that was the operator's main income, end of his aviation ambitions. Even if he had acquired the aircraft second hand and had no knowledge of the bogus parts, he is still stuffed. Caveat emptor.
A whole fleet of aircraft have been grounded because it was found that inspections had been overlooked, not by a few hours or days, but by a very long over-run. No question of waiting for the courts to decide whether the cover-up was deliberate or accidental. Anyone associated with aviation who does not understand that?
We set these authorities up to protect us from ourselves.
I do not like the way CASA do many things, and positively hate their mess of regulations. But aviation businesses should not think that they are somehow to be treated differently from other safety critical endeavours.
The balance is in ensuring that absolute power does not corrupt absolutely.
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Mach, you post a lot of good relevant stuff here. 
Another restaurant analogy may go like this.
A recently dismissed employee of a restaurant chain says that he once saw a rat at one of the restaurants. The health department (on a 'Non Business' day) informs the restaurant chain that all of their outlets are to be closed for several months while the health department looks over their paperwork.
That paperwork is available for checking even while the restaurants that did not have any rats, remain open.
The health department though, likes to wield a big stick and insists on closing all the restaurant outlets so that they look decisive at the senate hearings, that are looking into the departments p!ss poor past history.
Another restaurant analogy may go like this.
A recently dismissed employee of a restaurant chain says that he once saw a rat at one of the restaurants. The health department (on a 'Non Business' day) informs the restaurant chain that all of their outlets are to be closed for several months while the health department looks over their paperwork.
That paperwork is available for checking even while the restaurants that did not have any rats, remain open.
The health department though, likes to wield a big stick and insists on closing all the restaurant outlets so that they look decisive at the senate hearings, that are looking into the departments p!ss poor past history.
Last edited by Trent 972; 10th Jan 2013 at 21:57.
Trent, point taken. Though in my short experience at CASA we did take the allegations of disgruntled ex-employees with a pinch of salt.
And before shutting an operator down, there was considerable debate between FOIs, AWIs, Team Leaders, the Area Manager and the Legal Counsel mob.
I guess we will have to wait for the specifics because we all appear to be guessing and working on rumour. Which is what a lot of this site is about.
Blackhand, rather than allow thread drift, I sent you a PM.
Are the relative merits of our jurisdiction and rules versus PNG worthy of a separate thread? Think I will start one.
And before shutting an operator down, there was considerable debate between FOIs, AWIs, Team Leaders, the Area Manager and the Legal Counsel mob.
I guess we will have to wait for the specifics because we all appear to be guessing and working on rumour. Which is what a lot of this site is about.
Blackhand, rather than allow thread drift, I sent you a PM.
Are the relative merits of our jurisdiction and rules versus PNG worthy of a separate thread? Think I will start one.
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maintenance release V snag book
any defect, no matter how trivial should be recorded AND Insp/ assessed by a professional Licenced engineer, and certified in the M/R. this is part of the history of the aircraft, and is recorded in triplicate, in an accident the SNAG BOOK may be destroyed and the M/R will show no defects (not much help if it was a technical defect that caused the accident), Why is it that pilots expect to be treated with respect because of the experience and knowledge they have but do not accord the same standard to maintenance staff?
Sorry, Mr MEA, I see you are no longer there, so, nothing personal, but the 'system', or 'modus operandi'.....(excuse spelling if needs be...)
'there was considerable debate between FOIs, AWIs, Team Leaders, the Area Manager and the Legal Counsel'
How come there was no mention of 'checking out' the allegations / facts..??
Or did I miss something here?
'there was considerable debate between FOIs, AWIs, Team Leaders, the Area Manager and the Legal Counsel'
How come there was no mention of 'checking out' the allegations / facts..??
Or did I miss something here?
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 11th Jan 2013 at 00:43.
Nah, I couldn't stand the Public Service. It was straight out of 'Yes Minister'. But believe it, they really only used the big stick of a total shutdown after issuing repeated warnings, or on operators who simply never got around to fixing stuff found at audit. It was not unusual for stuff found at one audit to be outstanding a year later at the next audit.
The little stick was used constantly in the issuance of NCNs, Show Cause Notices and the rare EVA (enforceable voluntary undertaking). Some of the stuff CASA people dished out was unreasonable, just done so that petty auditors could justify their existence.
BUT, in more serious cases, I believe that a stern reading of the riot act on the spot - while politically incorrect - would have been more effective, given some of the hard-nosed personalities that we had to deal with. However, these days you can't talk like they do in an American Cop Show: imagine the noise someone would make if an Inspector said "I will give you seven days to come up with the goods. Otherwise I will send the hit squad in and we will turn this place upside down, and if we find the slightest thing wrong we will put your licences through the shredder - capiche?" Jesus, the lawyers would go nuts, CASA would be dragged on 'A Current Affair' and every other name-and-shame program, Allan Jones and John Laws would take up the cudgels, the Inspector who made the threat would be gone for a duck etc.
The mealy-mouthed legal touchy-feely language that is used these days is lost on these hard cases. Even the term for what is now a NCN, "Request for Corrective Action" sent a totally wrong signal that it was only something that CASA would 'like' you to do, not something you 'had' to do. It was frustrating getting the message across. The American term 'Violation' has much more impact.
Lest you think that I was on a power trip at CASA, any ops manual amendment or check pilot approvals that came my way got dealt with very quickly and I always sought to minimise costs to the operator. I hated audits because I knew how slow the corrective action processes were and how unlikely any 'fixes' were to be permanent.
But getting back to the question. IS there evidence or is there not?
So far no-one who has contributed to this thread has come up with FACTS.
All we get is the Italian suppository.
The little stick was used constantly in the issuance of NCNs, Show Cause Notices and the rare EVA (enforceable voluntary undertaking). Some of the stuff CASA people dished out was unreasonable, just done so that petty auditors could justify their existence.
BUT, in more serious cases, I believe that a stern reading of the riot act on the spot - while politically incorrect - would have been more effective, given some of the hard-nosed personalities that we had to deal with. However, these days you can't talk like they do in an American Cop Show: imagine the noise someone would make if an Inspector said "I will give you seven days to come up with the goods. Otherwise I will send the hit squad in and we will turn this place upside down, and if we find the slightest thing wrong we will put your licences through the shredder - capiche?" Jesus, the lawyers would go nuts, CASA would be dragged on 'A Current Affair' and every other name-and-shame program, Allan Jones and John Laws would take up the cudgels, the Inspector who made the threat would be gone for a duck etc.
The mealy-mouthed legal touchy-feely language that is used these days is lost on these hard cases. Even the term for what is now a NCN, "Request for Corrective Action" sent a totally wrong signal that it was only something that CASA would 'like' you to do, not something you 'had' to do. It was frustrating getting the message across. The American term 'Violation' has much more impact.
Lest you think that I was on a power trip at CASA, any ops manual amendment or check pilot approvals that came my way got dealt with very quickly and I always sought to minimise costs to the operator. I hated audits because I knew how slow the corrective action processes were and how unlikely any 'fixes' were to be permanent.
But getting back to the question. IS there evidence or is there not?
So far no-one who has contributed to this thread has come up with FACTS.
All we get is the Italian suppository.
Mea I agree with you. Take the social workers. They remove a kid from an abusive family and get called " jackbooted nazi thugs".
They leave the kid and it's " why was little Daniel Valerio allowed to die?"
However the social workers are not judge jury and executioner.
It would be better, and more efficient in my opinion, if the enforcer didn't get to write the regs they enforce.
They leave the kid and it's " why was little Daniel Valerio allowed to die?"
However the social workers are not judge jury and executioner.
It would be better, and more efficient in my opinion, if the enforcer didn't get to write the regs they enforce.