Pilot survives crash into Lake Hume
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Recommended reading all 108 pages.
Inquest into the death of Philip Henry SCHOLL. Thomas Braes, Coroner, Mareeba 27th January, 2009.
There are some elements of this coronial inquest which are very worthy of your notice:-
1) Counsel Assisting.
2) The Coroner made 58 recommendations, of which 38 began 'CASA should'.
3) Mr Thomas Braes, Coroner is clearly a man of intelligence, some wit and has pretty much summed it all up very adroitly.
4) There were 72 deaths during the 5 year period examined. It is interesting to note that deaths in the age group between 50 and 59 accounted for 21 of them, a further 12 were between 60 and 69. All male.
The inquest is food for serious thought. The Regs allow a Chief pilot to delegate authority but not responsibility. Perhaps CASA could part with some of their newly acquired, publicly donated wealth to the ATSB and RAA to allow them to function properly.
[quote]
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My bold.
There are some elements of this coronial inquest which are very worthy of your notice:-
1) Counsel Assisting.
2) The Coroner made 58 recommendations, of which 38 began 'CASA should'.
3) Mr Thomas Braes, Coroner is clearly a man of intelligence, some wit and has pretty much summed it all up very adroitly.
4) There were 72 deaths during the 5 year period examined. It is interesting to note that deaths in the age group between 50 and 59 accounted for 21 of them, a further 12 were between 60 and 69. All male.
The inquest is food for serious thought. The Regs allow a Chief pilot to delegate authority but not responsibility. Perhaps CASA could part with some of their newly acquired, publicly donated wealth to the ATSB and RAA to allow them to function properly.
The failure of CASA to directly participate in these proceedings further highlights the lack of priority given to the management of the recreation aviation industry by the statutorily appointed and government funded regulator.
Throughout this inquiry it became obvious that a weakness in the current system is the regulatory regime and the enforcement of the rules applicable to the recreation aviation industry. Put simply, the regulator is CASA. CASA delegates some authority to RA-AUS and HGFA although this delegation does not extend to prosecutions. It became obvious the level of communication and co-operation between HGFA, RA-AUS, ATSB and CASA is such that the community at large could have no confidence that the regulatory regime, being the legislation and the rules of the delegated unincorporated bodies, are being adequately administered and enforced.
My bold.
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Na, they do beatups at Hamilton Island in a Trojan at 3 ft off the deck, or beat ups at Port Maq in an MU2 and pullup at the end that leaves the aircraft with Gull wings.
Whilst it's not entirely legal in all circumstances, the runway is the best place for a beatup in my opinion.
2 ft wheels down, 3 ft wheels up, sounds like plenty of margin there!
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New evidence to hand suggests the pilot was trying to avoid birds that are prevalent over the Hume Dam.
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Seriously, not shooting the messenger however that has to be the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time.
People will say anything when they are desperate. This guy should have kept his mouth FIRMLY shut after the accident. NO COMMENT people!
People will say anything when they are desperate. This guy should have kept his mouth FIRMLY shut after the accident. NO COMMENT people!
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We all get the point, move on, we've done the poor pilot part to death.
The most constructive thing that can be done is discussion on how to avoid such events happening in the future and what you / we personally can do to actively prevent them, such as education, lobbying, peer pressure etc so as to continue to enjoy your sport as you do now.
The most constructive thing that can be done is discussion on how to avoid such events happening in the future and what you / we personally can do to actively prevent them, such as education, lobbying, peer pressure etc so as to continue to enjoy your sport as you do now.
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Who appointed you Chairperson?
If you want to start cleaning things up, start with post #164
Yes FB, definitely not the people who inherited their wealth, or cheat their customers and don't pay their taxes.
If you want to start cleaning things up, start with post #164
Yes FB, definitely not the people who inherited their wealth, or cheat their customers and don't pay their taxes.
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You are more than welcome to be Chairperson Wallsofchina/Shrike135, but please offer something constructive rather than just criticizing everything that other valued contributors have provided.
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Firstly, I'm not the one telling people to move on.
Secondly, guess again
Thirdly, I'm criticising RAAus bashing, but EVERYONE should be criticising someone who uses an accident thread to promote beatups down runways 2 feet off the ground.
It's not so long ago that you were actually asking people to vote for you to MANAGE behaviour like this. How do you think it looks?
Secondly, guess again
Thirdly, I'm criticising RAAus bashing, but EVERYONE should be criticising someone who uses an accident thread to promote beatups down runways 2 feet off the ground.
It's not so long ago that you were actually asking people to vote for you to MANAGE behaviour like this. How do you think it looks?
but EVERYONE should be criticising someone who uses an accident thread to promote beatups down runways 2 feet off the ground.
It's not so long ago that you were actually asking people to vote for you to MANAGE behaviour like this. How do you think it looks?
It's not so long ago that you were actually asking people to vote for you to MANAGE behaviour like this. How do you think it looks?
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WOC
you are losing the plot.
Nowhere..and I mean NOWHERE did I see anyone on this thread promoting beatups. Period!
Just like one other serial pest around here, you have taken some legitimate comment about something else, and made an accusation OUT OF CONTEXT.
blackhand said;
To which XXX said;
So take a rest hey, you are digging a hole here, so deep it could be filled with water and water skiing folk afraid of aerial attackers!
you are losing the plot.
Thirdly, I'm criticising RAAus bashing, but EVERYONE should be criticising someone who uses an accident thread to promote beatups down runways 2 feet off the ground.
It's not so long ago that you were actually asking people to vote for you to MANAGE behaviour like this. How do you think it looks?
It's not so long ago that you were actually asking people to vote for you to MANAGE behaviour like this. How do you think it looks?
Just like one other serial pest around here, you have taken some legitimate comment about something else, and made an accusation OUT OF CONTEXT.
blackhand said;
Na, they do beatups at Hamilton Island in a Trojan at 3 ft off the deck, or beat ups at Port Maq in an MU2 and pullup at the end that leaves the aircraft with Gull wings.
Quote:
Na, they do beatups at Hamilton Island in a Trojan at 3 ft off the deck, or beat ups at Port Maq in an MU2 and pullup at the end that leaves the aircraft with Gull wings.
Down the runway though, or elsewhere?
Whilst it's not entirely legal in all circumstances, the runway is the best place for a beatup in my opinion.
Na, they do beatups at Hamilton Island in a Trojan at 3 ft off the deck, or beat ups at Port Maq in an MU2 and pullup at the end that leaves the aircraft with Gull wings.
Down the runway though, or elsewhere?
Whilst it's not entirely legal in all circumstances, the runway is the best place for a beatup in my opinion.
So take a rest hey, you are digging a hole here, so deep it could be filled with water and water skiing folk afraid of aerial attackers!
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"Whilst it's not entirely legal in all circumstances, the runway is the best place for a beatup in my opinion.
"2 ft wheels down, 3 ft wheels up, sounds like plenty of margin there!"
Yeah Right!
"2 ft wheels down, 3 ft wheels up, sounds like plenty of margin there!"
Yeah Right!
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Hear Hear Jabba.
Good posts are what people want to see, with good information.
Worth a read the post from Kharon, which I have now read and you can find on:
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/...h-20090127.pdf
It deserves careful thought as to the actions of the regulator.
Good posts are what people want to see, with good information.
Worth a read the post from Kharon, which I have now read and you can find on:
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/...h-20090127.pdf
It deserves careful thought as to the actions of the regulator.
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Thanks Jaba, hear hear, I don't think everyone is going to go out and do beat-ups down the runway because of a comment about 3 ft beat-ups that has been taken out of context. I said that the best place for a beat-up is down the runway. That beat-up could be an airshow or an aerobatic pilot or whatever is legal, but not 2ft above a recreational lake amongst powerboats and skiers.
Perhaps WOC should should offer his skills and experience in marketing that he has been mentioning of late to work closely with RA-Aus to assist them in being constructive and developing content for their new website. The new website will be running very soon. Start with segments on the dangers of low flying, pilot behaviour and human factors that he appears to be passionate about.
Perhaps include information on the importance of pilots remaining current, in particular their licence and registration and how they would be un-insured should they lapse financially. Maybe he could also write some articles to the editor of Sport Pilot magazine; cover off maintenance items, best practices and information from his experience working with engines. RA-Aus are always interested in hearing from people that are able to run workshops such as maintenance on airframe and engine. Perhaps if someone were to assist or run such events, then others may benefit and might not be tempted to do the wrong thing next time they go out flying.
Perhaps WOC should should offer his skills and experience in marketing that he has been mentioning of late to work closely with RA-Aus to assist them in being constructive and developing content for their new website. The new website will be running very soon. Start with segments on the dangers of low flying, pilot behaviour and human factors that he appears to be passionate about.
Perhaps include information on the importance of pilots remaining current, in particular their licence and registration and how they would be un-insured should they lapse financially. Maybe he could also write some articles to the editor of Sport Pilot magazine; cover off maintenance items, best practices and information from his experience working with engines. RA-Aus are always interested in hearing from people that are able to run workshops such as maintenance on airframe and engine. Perhaps if someone were to assist or run such events, then others may benefit and might not be tempted to do the wrong thing next time they go out flying.
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WOC
He is commenting on someone elses post about a trojan allegedly at a class D aerodrome, doing what might well be an approved pass.
If you are doing such displays whether they are legal or not....and XXX is not suggesting you or anyone go doing them if not legal, but his point is the best place for a low pass, is over a runway. Ever noticed that is where airshow displays are done?
Maybe this is a glass half full/empty argument.
I have had enough for now!
He is commenting on someone elses post about a trojan allegedly at a class D aerodrome, doing what might well be an approved pass.
If you are doing such displays whether they are legal or not....and XXX is not suggesting you or anyone go doing them if not legal, but his point is the best place for a low pass, is over a runway. Ever noticed that is where airshow displays are done?
Maybe this is a glass half full/empty argument.
I have had enough for now!
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One last tid bit....
Up into the air
The problem I see here is, that the criticism in the coroners report of the regulator and RAA is seemingly justified, yet how do you enforce the morons?
I do think tighter control over training and education of the membership is possibly the only way. When you have poorly maintained microlights or King Airs, poorly trained RAA students or poorly trained RFDS CPL's you could expect somewhat similar results. When you look at what we really have is chalk and cheese. One system costs a damned sight more than the other too. The problem is to keep the morons from doing these dumb things or keep them out altogether will cost RAA a massive fortune, and in the process the rank and file will be screaming about rights being taken away etc etc.
I do not know what the answer is, but it reflects badly on all of us every time one of the dumb accidents happen. Look at the Piper prang a few months back, I suspect that is a classic case of confusing ambition with ability. It reflects on all of us.
Education is about the only way I can think of. At all levels, Good education costs lots of money to cover many areas. So costs go up. This will be the challenge for RAO's where everyone wants their freedom too.
Freedom is not Free!
Maybe Chopper has the answer to fixing all these morons or whatever he calls them.....(be warned coarse language)
It deserves careful thought as to the actions of the regulator.
I do think tighter control over training and education of the membership is possibly the only way. When you have poorly maintained microlights or King Airs, poorly trained RAA students or poorly trained RFDS CPL's you could expect somewhat similar results. When you look at what we really have is chalk and cheese. One system costs a damned sight more than the other too. The problem is to keep the morons from doing these dumb things or keep them out altogether will cost RAA a massive fortune, and in the process the rank and file will be screaming about rights being taken away etc etc.
I do not know what the answer is, but it reflects badly on all of us every time one of the dumb accidents happen. Look at the Piper prang a few months back, I suspect that is a classic case of confusing ambition with ability. It reflects on all of us.
Education is about the only way I can think of. At all levels, Good education costs lots of money to cover many areas. So costs go up. This will be the challenge for RAO's where everyone wants their freedom too.
Freedom is not Free!
Maybe Chopper has the answer to fixing all these morons or whatever he calls them.....(be warned coarse language)
Last edited by Jabawocky; 10th Jan 2012 at 05:26. Reason: forget my cheeky title!
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The problem I see here is, that the criticism in the coroners report of the regulator and RAA is seemingly justified
Another is that the only person involved in the accident not lying was the dead bloke.
How the coroner could decide to believe some lies and not others is most intriguing.
And again, how the f...k could any blame be laid on CASA or RAA is beyond me.