JetGo Australia????
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"I know their leased aircraft is in town. I know they took Photos of an all white plane claiming to be theirs. I know that it's also not their money, I know it's not their balls on the line and I know their application has not been in with CASA for over a year.
Sure you do Bizzy old chum.....suurre you do!! I'd put forward the proposition that you're a worried competitor!!!!
I LOVE this thread!!
Sure you do Bizzy old chum.....suurre you do!! I'd put forward the proposition that you're a worried competitor!!!!
I LOVE this thread!!
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Please note I wish no harm on anyone. I really do wish them well as I do with another that wants to have a go.
Lol I really don't think you can compare jetgo to Virgin though. Skyair and strategic started the same way too
A worried competitor????? Baaaaahahahahahaha could not be further from the truth my friend..
Lol I really don't think you can compare jetgo to Virgin though. Skyair and strategic started the same way too
A worried competitor????? Baaaaahahahahahaha could not be further from the truth my friend..
Actually Bizzy, you have just proven yourself to be a fool.
The first thing you learn to do when developing something, is you don't tell everyone all of the story.
Everyone gets a bout 80% of the news and the remaining 20% is divided up among the flock and to see what comes back full circle.... ie who can keep their mouth shut and who cant. A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing because that is exactly what you have shot yourself with.
You are blatantly wrong about some details you sprout forth as fact. How do I know this, because I countersigned the documents you portray as not existing.
I think it could be wise for your to remove you incorrect statement, the word you should look up is Libel, but as you are a bit slow on the uptake I will give you a hint.
Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person.
The first thing you learn to do when developing something, is you don't tell everyone all of the story.
Everyone gets a bout 80% of the news and the remaining 20% is divided up among the flock and to see what comes back full circle.... ie who can keep their mouth shut and who cant. A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing because that is exactly what you have shot yourself with.
You are blatantly wrong about some details you sprout forth as fact. How do I know this, because I countersigned the documents you portray as not existing.
I think it could be wise for your to remove you incorrect statement, the word you should look up is Libel, but as you are a bit slow on the uptake I will give you a hint.
Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person.
Bizzybody, et al,
You may want to brush up on this;
Australian Defamation Laws and the Internet
Especially after a statement of "material that could be found to be defamatory includes that which has the tendency to lower the person in the estimation of others" eg about their financial commitment in their company. That would, IMHO, lower the estimation of a fledgling business man, who's establishing a business in a small aviation community, in the eyes of a reasonable person. ie a client or potential supplier or employee.
A rumour is one thing, a statement is quite another, especially about individuals; can you back up this statement? I'm willing to bet you can't from Twotbags' reaction.
PPRuNe is an anonymous rumour network, but it's not going to be that anonymous for you, if the PPRuNe management is involved in a libel action, as has been hinted at by Twotbags.
Seaeagle109
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus, 535-475BC
You may want to brush up on this;
Australian Defamation Laws and the Internet
Especially after a statement of "material that could be found to be defamatory includes that which has the tendency to lower the person in the estimation of others" eg about their financial commitment in their company. That would, IMHO, lower the estimation of a fledgling business man, who's establishing a business in a small aviation community, in the eyes of a reasonable person. ie a client or potential supplier or employee.
A rumour is one thing, a statement is quite another, especially about individuals; can you back up this statement? I'm willing to bet you can't from Twotbags' reaction.
PPRuNe is an anonymous rumour network, but it's not going to be that anonymous for you, if the PPRuNe management is involved in a libel action, as has been hinted at by Twotbags.
Seaeagle109
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus, 535-475BC
Last edited by Seaeagle109; 26th Mar 2012 at 20:54. Reason: Spelling and to remove a republication of a potentially libelous statement
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Bollocks
Grrowler - nice post, nailed it in one!
And then come the 'libel' posts, right on cue. The threat of libel (by posters) is usually rolled out when people start sooking because they aren't reading 'wonderful, positive, enthralling statements'. I am wondering out of curiosity- how does one get sued for libel if one posts his/her comments from a public computer that is located well away from any pesky CCTV cameras and one has originally set up ones email account at Gmail with false details? Just curious, seriously.
And then come the 'libel' posts, right on cue. The threat of libel (by posters) is usually rolled out when people start sooking because they aren't reading 'wonderful, positive, enthralling statements'. I am wondering out of curiosity- how does one get sued for libel if one posts his/her comments from a public computer that is located well away from any pesky CCTV cameras and one has originally set up ones email account at Gmail with false details? Just curious, seriously.
Gobbledock,
Sorry if my “libel post” has offended you, but my interest was sparked by the hint of a libel threat/action, so I Goggled “libel”, as I’m a total legal layman, and found out about the Libel laws for electronic media in Australia to inform myself and posted a link for any other interested PPRuNer users. I am aware that there was a recent successful action against an Australian blogger over statements made in a blog, which were incorrect about an individual. If you read the linked page in my previous post you'll find even the truth is not a defense in some cases, if the disclosure of facts is not in the public interest; that I personally found very interesting as I thought the truth is the ultimate defense; Twotbags quite accurately pointed that out to Bizzybody.
Your question about how someone could be identified if they used a public computer and avoided CCTV is an interesting one but I thought PPRuNe wouldn’t let you set up an account using services like Hotmail and possibly Gmail, so that we can all actually be identified if required. I do know that a person can be tracked down by a knowledgeable computer user, look at the recent case of the “Collar Bomb” offender; he was tracked to a public computer in his local library and an anonymous email address . I’d hazard a guess that, like me, most PPRuNer users use either personal or work computers to view and post on this forum, so identification of an individual is probably easy. Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun
Bizzybody has made a statement about individuals and their financial involvement in their company that I believe triggered the hint of legal action, not made a comment like “I believe or I’ve heard” or stated a negative opinion or comment like you and others have about JetGo, which you're entitled to do. So, that’s a bit of a difference in my opinion (only that of a legal layman) and reading the article/definitions on libel, it could be a prudent move to either retract it, or prove it, or apologise for it, as a “reasonable person” could form a negative opinion of the identified individuals and the subsequent post about meaning no harm to JetGo probably isn’t enough. JR was ID’d on the first page of this thread and anyone dealing with JetGo on a professional basis would know AM’s identity.
I'd guess there's real money on the line here and inflicting damage on some person or entity's reputation could cause them problems (financially or professionally) and ultimately the person making the offending statements, problems, should legal action be taken over the offending statements. I believe PPRuNe has in the past blocked posts about companies and individuals due to legal issues but I'm not sure if that is still happening.
However, it’s no problem of mine and maybe Bizzybody will either “put up or shut up” regarding his/her statement; I’ll be interested to see what happens.
Seaeagle109
“A man’s character is his fate” Heraclitus, 535-475BC.
Sorry if my “libel post” has offended you, but my interest was sparked by the hint of a libel threat/action, so I Goggled “libel”, as I’m a total legal layman, and found out about the Libel laws for electronic media in Australia to inform myself and posted a link for any other interested PPRuNer users. I am aware that there was a recent successful action against an Australian blogger over statements made in a blog, which were incorrect about an individual. If you read the linked page in my previous post you'll find even the truth is not a defense in some cases, if the disclosure of facts is not in the public interest; that I personally found very interesting as I thought the truth is the ultimate defense; Twotbags quite accurately pointed that out to Bizzybody.
Your question about how someone could be identified if they used a public computer and avoided CCTV is an interesting one but I thought PPRuNe wouldn’t let you set up an account using services like Hotmail and possibly Gmail, so that we can all actually be identified if required. I do know that a person can be tracked down by a knowledgeable computer user, look at the recent case of the “Collar Bomb” offender; he was tracked to a public computer in his local library and an anonymous email address . I’d hazard a guess that, like me, most PPRuNer users use either personal or work computers to view and post on this forum, so identification of an individual is probably easy. Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun
Bizzybody has made a statement about individuals and their financial involvement in their company that I believe triggered the hint of legal action, not made a comment like “I believe or I’ve heard” or stated a negative opinion or comment like you and others have about JetGo, which you're entitled to do. So, that’s a bit of a difference in my opinion (only that of a legal layman) and reading the article/definitions on libel, it could be a prudent move to either retract it, or prove it, or apologise for it, as a “reasonable person” could form a negative opinion of the identified individuals and the subsequent post about meaning no harm to JetGo probably isn’t enough. JR was ID’d on the first page of this thread and anyone dealing with JetGo on a professional basis would know AM’s identity.
I'd guess there's real money on the line here and inflicting damage on some person or entity's reputation could cause them problems (financially or professionally) and ultimately the person making the offending statements, problems, should legal action be taken over the offending statements. I believe PPRuNe has in the past blocked posts about companies and individuals due to legal issues but I'm not sure if that is still happening.
However, it’s no problem of mine and maybe Bizzybody will either “put up or shut up” regarding his/her statement; I’ll be interested to see what happens.
Seaeagle109
“A man’s character is his fate” Heraclitus, 535-475BC.
Last edited by Seaeagle109; 28th Mar 2012 at 03:22. Reason: Spelling and grammar
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Love your work Gobbledock.... Sniping from the edges as usual. Nothing positive to say as usual. Nothing of any real consequence to say as usual. Just the usual flying club drivel!!!
Bizzy..... let's face it....you are worried mate. Didn't that new F-50 app die a quick death?! I mean really darling boy.... the cake is a lot larger than you think. Let somebody else have a slice you greedy bugger!!! ;-)
Bizzy..... let's face it....you are worried mate. Didn't that new F-50 app die a quick death?! I mean really darling boy.... the cake is a lot larger than you think. Let somebody else have a slice you greedy bugger!!! ;-)
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TWOTBAGS
TWOTBAGS: You stated 'I have been here since 1996 when PPRuNe was a two forum email BBS'
Thats great mate but One question for you. How come your JOIN DATE is MAY 2001
You dont need to answer that.
BizzyBody: not comparing the 2 companies but stating that Virgin did have a fleet of 10 B747 400's when they started. I hope that JetGo all the way.
Laters
Thats great mate but One question for you. How come your JOIN DATE is MAY 2001
You dont need to answer that.
BizzyBody: not comparing the 2 companies but stating that Virgin did have a fleet of 10 B747 400's when they started. I hope that JetGo all the way.
Laters
Springbokflyer145,
Perhaps, like me, he had to re-register at some stage; from memory, back around the late '90s/2000 I changed service providers and also had a bit of a computer meltdown/virus, hence a new email address, which at the time required a re-registration. Anyway, I think that's why I re-registered, as my original joining date was around late'98/early'99.
Seaeagle109
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus, 535-475BC
Perhaps, like me, he had to re-register at some stage; from memory, back around the late '90s/2000 I changed service providers and also had a bit of a computer meltdown/virus, hence a new email address, which at the time required a re-registration. Anyway, I think that's why I re-registered, as my original joining date was around late'98/early'99.
Seaeagle109
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus, 535-475BC
Last edited by Seaeagle109; 28th Mar 2012 at 04:02.
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Poking the bear
Now now GADRIVR, no taunting please. Otherwise I may snipe you from behind a sand dune or hill and fire a few shots across the bow of your little piston rig!
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No AOC, no need
You don't an AOC for private flights. You only need that when you start conducting revenue flights or training. Positioning flights can be conducted as private ops. Obviously enthusiasm is filling the knowledge and experience void. A dangerous precondition for a start up.
Time to grab the tiller and set the ship straight again for those that obviously have no idea about ferry flights, training flights, proving flights, private flights and commercial operations.
JetGo have been conducting both training and proving flights with CASA on board observing the crew actions are in accordance with their published manuals.
As the company is yet to get its AOC, it is quite obvious that the training and proving flights are conducted as a private operation.
These flights have taken in multiple ports and sectors where the crew have been observed in real world operating conditions. Cobham did it a few weeks back when they brought the 717 back to Brisbane. Tiger did numerous flights to satisfy the above requirements (twice now) all as a private operation until they received their AOC.
What these guys are doing is not easy, if it was everyone would have a jet AOC. The reality is that you can count on one hand the number of new jet AOC's that have been issued by CASA in the last 2 decades.
So think before you make that next key stroke, the JetGo boys and girls are hard at work actually doing it, as opposed to the vast majority who have a word but dont have a show.
If you feel like shooting down your fellow aviators from the sideline with biased or as displayed in this thread, by a distinct lack of knowledge.
Then sure if it makes you feel like a big man have a dig, but you only look like a friday night fool in front of everyone else here.
Play the Ball, Not the Man. and right now, the JetGo boys are the only ones playing the Ball. To date they have been hitting 6's out of the park with not a peep from the department, which is a lot more than most people can say.
Actions speak a lot louder than words and JetGo are letting their plane do the talking.
JetGo have been conducting both training and proving flights with CASA on board observing the crew actions are in accordance with their published manuals.
As the company is yet to get its AOC, it is quite obvious that the training and proving flights are conducted as a private operation.
These flights have taken in multiple ports and sectors where the crew have been observed in real world operating conditions. Cobham did it a few weeks back when they brought the 717 back to Brisbane. Tiger did numerous flights to satisfy the above requirements (twice now) all as a private operation until they received their AOC.
What these guys are doing is not easy, if it was everyone would have a jet AOC. The reality is that you can count on one hand the number of new jet AOC's that have been issued by CASA in the last 2 decades.
So think before you make that next key stroke, the JetGo boys and girls are hard at work actually doing it, as opposed to the vast majority who have a word but dont have a show.
If you feel like shooting down your fellow aviators from the sideline with biased or as displayed in this thread, by a distinct lack of knowledge.
Then sure if it makes you feel like a big man have a dig, but you only look like a friday night fool in front of everyone else here.
Play the Ball, Not the Man. and right now, the JetGo boys are the only ones playing the Ball. To date they have been hitting 6's out of the park with not a peep from the department, which is a lot more than most people can say.
Actions speak a lot louder than words and JetGo are letting their plane do the talking.
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“……………Obviously enthusiasm is filling the knowledge and experience void. A dangerous precondition for a start up.” flying-spike, Post#116
What monumental arrogance and ignorance is this load of cr@p statement? A previous poster says, probably after checking Flight Aware or similar:
“Quite a few flights, not bad for someone that doesn't have an AOC yet” Falconx, Post# 113
and the "flying-spike" is jumping to a conclusion about JetGo’s knowledge base and experience levels. Maybe these flights were with CASA to pass the various requirements for the AOC? For example, Check Approvals, Proving Flights, etc? It takes time to jump through all of CASA’s hoops, multiple flights are part of the process.
Really, Spike, that’s just a downright insult to the experience and professionalism of the crews flying the aircraft and the guys setting up JetGo. You might get away with questioning the advisability of establishing the operation, which is a fair question, but to infer these guys are setting up a dangerous operation is really bad form. You’ve crossed the line with that inference. You really need to apologise to the crews for that one!
The Caveman
What monumental arrogance and ignorance is this load of cr@p statement? A previous poster says, probably after checking Flight Aware or similar:
“Quite a few flights, not bad for someone that doesn't have an AOC yet” Falconx, Post# 113
and the "flying-spike" is jumping to a conclusion about JetGo’s knowledge base and experience levels. Maybe these flights were with CASA to pass the various requirements for the AOC? For example, Check Approvals, Proving Flights, etc? It takes time to jump through all of CASA’s hoops, multiple flights are part of the process.
Really, Spike, that’s just a downright insult to the experience and professionalism of the crews flying the aircraft and the guys setting up JetGo. You might get away with questioning the advisability of establishing the operation, which is a fair question, but to infer these guys are setting up a dangerous operation is really bad form. You’ve crossed the line with that inference. You really need to apologise to the crews for that one!
The Caveman
flying-spike,
I've always tried too, as Twotbags says, "play the ball not the man" on this forum but you're sorely tempting me to say something very insulting about you after your last statement regarding the "knowledge and experience void" about your fellow aviation professionals.
I don't know about you but I believe that you give other aviation professionals the courtesy of professional respect until they prove to you beyond doubt that they're not worthy of it.
The crews flying the JetGo aircraft have not, as far as I know, shown any lack of experience or knowledge; if they have please enlighten us all, if not then I think you need to acknowledge that you have created an erroreous idea about their professional abilities and knowledge.
The idea that the people establishing JetGo are creating something dangerous because you don't think it's a good idea or business plan is very unprofessional and discourteous.
Sure, have at them as much as you like about whether they'll suceed or fail, and their aircraft choices but you've really impuned their reputations over their supposed lack of experience and knowledge with out any just reason.
Seaeagle109
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus, 535-475BC
I've always tried too, as Twotbags says, "play the ball not the man" on this forum but you're sorely tempting me to say something very insulting about you after your last statement regarding the "knowledge and experience void" about your fellow aviation professionals.
I don't know about you but I believe that you give other aviation professionals the courtesy of professional respect until they prove to you beyond doubt that they're not worthy of it.
The crews flying the JetGo aircraft have not, as far as I know, shown any lack of experience or knowledge; if they have please enlighten us all, if not then I think you need to acknowledge that you have created an erroreous idea about their professional abilities and knowledge.
The idea that the people establishing JetGo are creating something dangerous because you don't think it's a good idea or business plan is very unprofessional and discourteous.
Sure, have at them as much as you like about whether they'll suceed or fail, and their aircraft choices but you've really impuned their reputations over their supposed lack of experience and knowledge with out any just reason.
Seaeagle109
"A man's character is his fate" Heraclitus, 535-475BC
Last edited by Seaeagle109; 30th Mar 2012 at 03:41. Reason: Spelling
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Correct
Correct TBM-Legend.. Very Valid Comment, Where do we get back up aircraft! We have a few allies in the industry and will rely on them until we manage to go through the saga of importing aircraft 2 , 3 and 4 over the next 12 months.. Until then we agree, we will no doubt experience teething problems.
For those others of you out there that choose to sprout 'crap' about safety, and privacy of the companies officers and affairs ( You know who you are), I believe the real professionals following on this forum have already 'outed' you as being the clowns you really are.. Yes, we are in the midst of prooving flights, our crew are doing an excellent job thus far of getting through this daunting task. Thanks for the support guys, We always welcome help and advice!
For those others of you out there that choose to sprout 'crap' about safety, and privacy of the companies officers and affairs ( You know who you are), I believe the real professionals following on this forum have already 'outed' you as being the clowns you really are.. Yes, we are in the midst of prooving flights, our crew are doing an excellent job thus far of getting through this daunting task. Thanks for the support guys, We always welcome help and advice!