How long is Australian CPL vailid for?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How long is Australian CPL vailid for?
G'day fellow aviators!
I currently hold an Australian CPL, but I haven't had a flight review in over 2 years. My questions is, is my CPL still valid even though I have not had a flight review, nor had 3 takeoffs and landings in the last 90 days?
Thanks in advance!
I currently hold an Australian CPL, but I haven't had a flight review in over 2 years. My questions is, is my CPL still valid even though I have not had a flight review, nor had 3 takeoffs and landings in the last 90 days?
Thanks in advance!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have an Australian CPL and don't know the answers to these fundamental questions ? They were most certainly covered in the Air Law exam. Anyway, if you have an Aussie CPL, then just read it. The validity is printed on the licence.
Of course you also need to go back and re-read the Regs to remind yourself what else needs to be in place for you to exercise the privileges of the licence. You can download all of the required docs from the CASA website for free.
Checkboard's answer is at least partially wrong; Just go and do some simple homework for yourself.
Of course you also need to go back and re-read the Regs to remind yourself what else needs to be in place for you to exercise the privileges of the licence. You can download all of the required docs from the CASA website for free.
Checkboard's answer is at least partially wrong; Just go and do some simple homework for yourself.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is wrong about checkboard answer, ALL Australian ICAO licenses are issued as permanent licenses, to exercise the license you need a current medical and AFR with 3 takeoffs and landings in previous 90 days.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well T28D, if you don't know what's wrong with Checkboard's answer, I've got way more to do today than sort out your homework on such a basic question. BTW, your answer is also obviously incorrect, but I guess you don't understand that either.
I just wish people would refrain from posting their guesses or whatever it is that leads to answers like these. If you really don't know the answer, download the Regs from the CASA website for free and spend a few measly minutes actually reading them.
I just wish people would refrain from posting their guesses or whatever it is that leads to answers like these. If you really don't know the answer, download the Regs from the CASA website for free and spend a few measly minutes actually reading them.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 60
Posts: 1,542
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reading the regs is the key - my take on it is that you must KEEP your medical current.
Flight review or similar needed to exercise privileges thereof.
Air leg a f$^(*(ng long time ago for me.
Flight review or similar needed to exercise privileges thereof.
Air leg a f$^(*(ng long time ago for me.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Checkboard - I didn't post any such thing. That is entirely a product of your own imagination, as was your original answer.
The reason I didn't post the answers (there are several points) is exactly as Tankengine suggests - read the Regs. I spend my life working bloody hard to help people become good pilots, but that does not include wiping their arses as well as their noses. If you want to be pilot in command of an aircraft, then you need to demonstrate a modicum of self-motivation and pride, and do just a little bit of your own work. I even pointed you at the Regs so that you didn't have to waste time on all of the other myriad documents that regulate Australian aviation, but I refuse to select the document, hold the book, open it to the page, and then read the answer out to you and other lazy "pilots".
I can teach anyone to fly (as in, manipulate the controls), what I can't teach is decision making, professionalism, pride in your own performance and airmanship. That comes from within the person, and without it, all of the flight skills in the world won't make a competent pilot.
The reason I didn't post the answers (there are several points) is exactly as Tankengine suggests - read the Regs. I spend my life working bloody hard to help people become good pilots, but that does not include wiping their arses as well as their noses. If you want to be pilot in command of an aircraft, then you need to demonstrate a modicum of self-motivation and pride, and do just a little bit of your own work. I even pointed you at the Regs so that you didn't have to waste time on all of the other myriad documents that regulate Australian aviation, but I refuse to select the document, hold the book, open it to the page, and then read the answer out to you and other lazy "pilots".
I can teach anyone to fly (as in, manipulate the controls), what I can't teach is decision making, professionalism, pride in your own performance and airmanship. That comes from within the person, and without it, all of the flight skills in the world won't make a competent pilot.
All Australian licences are issued permanently.
Once you have the licence, you need a current medical & flight test to validate it.
Flight test, INCORRECT. You did one to get the licence, you need a flight review or equivalent (CAR 5.108) to exercise the privileges of the licence.
5.108 Commercial (aeroplane) pilot: regular flight reviews required
(1) A commercial (aeroplane) pilot must not fly an aeroplane as pilot in command if the pilot has not, within the period of 2 years immediately before the day of the proposed flight, satisfactorily completed an aeroplane flight review.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
Note A pilot who flies aeroplanes for an operator to whom regulation 217 applies will be required to undertake proficiency checks at more frequent intervals.
(2) An aeroplane flight review must be conducted only by an appropriate person and, unless the person otherwise approves having regard to the circumstances of the case, must be conducted in:
(a) an aeroplane:
(i) of the type in which the pilot flew the greatest amount of flight time during the 10 flights the pilot undertook as pilot in command immediately before the flight review; and
(ii) unless the type of aeroplane mentioned in subparagraph (i) is a single place aeroplane — that is fitted with fully functioning dual controls; and
(iii) unless the type of aeroplane mentioned in subparagraph (i) is a single place aeroplane or is not fitted with wheel brakes — that is fitted with dual control brakes; or
(b) an approved synthetic flight trainer appropriate to the type of aeroplane mentioned in subparagraph (a) (i).
Note For appropriate person see subregulation (8).
(3) If:
(a) a commercial (aeroplane) pilot undertakes an aeroplane flight review; and
(b) the requirements of subregulation (2) are not satisfied in relation to the review;
the pilot is taken not to have satisfactorily completed the review.
(4) If a commercial (aeroplane) pilot satisfactorily completes an aeroplane flight review, the person conducting the review must make an entry in the pilot’s personal log book to the effect that the pilot has satisfactorily completed the aeroplane flight review.
Penalty: 10 penalty units.
(4A) An offence against subregulation (1) or (4) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(5) A commercial (aeroplane) pilot who has, within the period of 2 years immediately before the day of the proposed flight:
(a) passed a flight test conducted for the purpose of:
(i) the issue of an aeroplane pilot licence; or
(ii) the issue, or renewal, of an aeroplane pilot rating; or
(b) satisfactorily completed an aeroplane proficiency check; or
(c) satisfactorily completed aeroplane conversion training given by the holder of a grade of flight instructor (aeroplane) rating that authorises him or her to conduct aeroplane flight reviews;
is taken to have satisfactorily completed an aeroplane flight review.
Note Conversion training given by a person who does not hold a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating must not be substituted for a flight review.
(6) For the purposes of paragraph (5) (b), a commercial (aeroplane) pilot is not taken to have satisfactorily completed an aeroplane proficiency check unless the organisation that conducted the check has made an entry in the pilot’s personal log book to that effect.
(7) CASA may approve a synthetic flight trainer for the purposes of paragraph (2) (b).
(8) In this regulation:
appropriate person means:
(a) an authorised flight instructor who holds a grade of flight instructor (aeroplane) rating that authorises him or her to conduct flight reviews in aeroplanes; or
(b) an approved testing officer; or
(c) a CASA flying operations inspector.
(1) A commercial (aeroplane) pilot must not fly an aeroplane as pilot in command if the pilot has not, within the period of 2 years immediately before the day of the proposed flight, satisfactorily completed an aeroplane flight review.
Penalty: 50 penalty units.
Note A pilot who flies aeroplanes for an operator to whom regulation 217 applies will be required to undertake proficiency checks at more frequent intervals.
(2) An aeroplane flight review must be conducted only by an appropriate person and, unless the person otherwise approves having regard to the circumstances of the case, must be conducted in:
(a) an aeroplane:
(i) of the type in which the pilot flew the greatest amount of flight time during the 10 flights the pilot undertook as pilot in command immediately before the flight review; and
(ii) unless the type of aeroplane mentioned in subparagraph (i) is a single place aeroplane — that is fitted with fully functioning dual controls; and
(iii) unless the type of aeroplane mentioned in subparagraph (i) is a single place aeroplane or is not fitted with wheel brakes — that is fitted with dual control brakes; or
(b) an approved synthetic flight trainer appropriate to the type of aeroplane mentioned in subparagraph (a) (i).
Note For appropriate person see subregulation (8).
(3) If:
(a) a commercial (aeroplane) pilot undertakes an aeroplane flight review; and
(b) the requirements of subregulation (2) are not satisfied in relation to the review;
the pilot is taken not to have satisfactorily completed the review.
(4) If a commercial (aeroplane) pilot satisfactorily completes an aeroplane flight review, the person conducting the review must make an entry in the pilot’s personal log book to the effect that the pilot has satisfactorily completed the aeroplane flight review.
Penalty: 10 penalty units.
(4A) An offence against subregulation (1) or (4) is an offence of strict liability.
Note For strict liability, see section 6.1 of the Criminal Code.
(5) A commercial (aeroplane) pilot who has, within the period of 2 years immediately before the day of the proposed flight:
(a) passed a flight test conducted for the purpose of:
(i) the issue of an aeroplane pilot licence; or
(ii) the issue, or renewal, of an aeroplane pilot rating; or
(b) satisfactorily completed an aeroplane proficiency check; or
(c) satisfactorily completed aeroplane conversion training given by the holder of a grade of flight instructor (aeroplane) rating that authorises him or her to conduct aeroplane flight reviews;
is taken to have satisfactorily completed an aeroplane flight review.
Note Conversion training given by a person who does not hold a flight instructor (aeroplane) rating must not be substituted for a flight review.
(6) For the purposes of paragraph (5) (b), a commercial (aeroplane) pilot is not taken to have satisfactorily completed an aeroplane proficiency check unless the organisation that conducted the check has made an entry in the pilot’s personal log book to that effect.
(7) CASA may approve a synthetic flight trainer for the purposes of paragraph (2) (b).
(8) In this regulation:
appropriate person means:
(a) an authorised flight instructor who holds a grade of flight instructor (aeroplane) rating that authorises him or her to conduct flight reviews in aeroplanes; or
(b) an approved testing officer; or
(c) a CASA flying operations inspector.
to exercise the license you need a current medical and AFR with 3 takeoffs and landings in previous 90 days.
You could technically go out 23 months after your last flight review, conduct 3 T/O and Lands and board passengers immediately.
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gods Country
Age: 53
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Above is 100% correct. I have CPL.
I didnt fly at all or have valid med cert for over 12yrs. (correction, I did 0.4 of circuits in YBCS after 5yrs no flying with no med cert, but had G2 instructor in RHS)
I had to do initial issue standard Class 1 medical and then FR with a CFI (just happened to be a CFI for me, an approved instructor operating under AOC can do) and I was good to go. Oh and had to go through all the hooplah re getting an initial ASIC too.
I didnt fly at all or have valid med cert for over 12yrs. (correction, I did 0.4 of circuits in YBCS after 5yrs no flying with no med cert, but had G2 instructor in RHS)
I had to do initial issue standard Class 1 medical and then FR with a CFI (just happened to be a CFI for me, an approved instructor operating under AOC can do) and I was good to go. Oh and had to go through all the hooplah re getting an initial ASIC too.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Millonario:
Be careful with the term "validate" here in Australia. It does not carry the same connotations as in EASA member states. Perhaps you have already seen that from the quoted law, above. In general it is true to say that all Australian licenses and ratings are valid for the lifetime of the holder, but privileges cannot be exercised unless... see above.
No doubt, when or if CASA works out how to update aviation law, regulations will be clearer and easier to find.
Be careful with the term "validate" here in Australia. It does not carry the same connotations as in EASA member states. Perhaps you have already seen that from the quoted law, above. In general it is true to say that all Australian licenses and ratings are valid for the lifetime of the holder, but privileges cannot be exercised unless... see above.
No doubt, when or if CASA works out how to update aviation law, regulations will be clearer and easier to find.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 768
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Make it Happen, the other tossers can go jump, my license is valid until I die.
My right to exercise its priviliges rests with a current medical certificate and recency along with a current AFR. QED !!!!!
As it has always been for the 50 years I have held the license.
My right to exercise its priviliges rests with a current medical certificate and recency along with a current AFR. QED !!!!!
As it has always been for the 50 years I have held the license.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hiding between the Animal Bar and the Suave Bar
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"my license is valid until I die." Which is printed on your licence as I said in my very first post. Nothing to do with 3 take-offs and landings as you incorrectly posted as fact.
"As it has always been for the 50 years I have held the license." In Australia licences are now permanently valid once issued, but that has certainly not been the case for all of the last 50 years. I don't care about your personal misperceptions any more than I care about your inability to spell; I do however care about you putting incorrect information out there, and proclaiming it to be the truth.
Lancair and MakeItHappen have it correct as far as they go, and that's all I'd ask. The additional information you need to be aware of relates to endorsements (which don't expire) and ratings (some of which do expire). Oktas8 is also correct, except that in the Australian aviation legal framework some ratings do expire - Command Instrument Ratings expire every year, and Instructor Ratings expire every one or two years depending on the circumstances; Night VFR ratings and Ag Ratings don't expire.
"As it has always been for the 50 years I have held the license." In Australia licences are now permanently valid once issued, but that has certainly not been the case for all of the last 50 years. I don't care about your personal misperceptions any more than I care about your inability to spell; I do however care about you putting incorrect information out there, and proclaiming it to be the truth.
Lancair and MakeItHappen have it correct as far as they go, and that's all I'd ask. The additional information you need to be aware of relates to endorsements (which don't expire) and ratings (some of which do expire). Oktas8 is also correct, except that in the Australian aviation legal framework some ratings do expire - Command Instrument Ratings expire every year, and Instructor Ratings expire every one or two years depending on the circumstances; Night VFR ratings and Ag Ratings don't expire.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you all for your answers, especially MakeItHappenCaptain for the extract from the regulations. Unhinged, take it easy mate. Questioning other pilots for their professionalism without knowing their background is a bit unfair in my opinion....
Anyways, the reason I asked this "easy" question was because I am back in my home country of Sweden and I am looking into converting my license to JAR. To do this, I need 100 hours PIC before going any further. At the moment, I have 82 hours, so I need 18 more. I talked to the authorities here about flying PIC without a JAR license and they said I can fly privately with my Australian CPL for 12 months as long as my license is valid throughout the time I will be exercising such operations. Basically, they said they don't care if I go and rent a plane tomorrow and start flying as long as I notify them I will be doing so and that I am aware of my obligations.
So let's see if I got this right: My CPL is valid forever and I can fly with it in Sweden for 12 months, but I need a flight review before flying PIC. Subject to the regulations, can the flight review be done in Sweden? The regulations don't state that the "appropriate person" has to be Australian.
Thanks again!
Anyways, the reason I asked this "easy" question was because I am back in my home country of Sweden and I am looking into converting my license to JAR. To do this, I need 100 hours PIC before going any further. At the moment, I have 82 hours, so I need 18 more. I talked to the authorities here about flying PIC without a JAR license and they said I can fly privately with my Australian CPL for 12 months as long as my license is valid throughout the time I will be exercising such operations. Basically, they said they don't care if I go and rent a plane tomorrow and start flying as long as I notify them I will be doing so and that I am aware of my obligations.
So let's see if I got this right: My CPL is valid forever and I can fly with it in Sweden for 12 months, but I need a flight review before flying PIC. Subject to the regulations, can the flight review be done in Sweden? The regulations don't state that the "appropriate person" has to be Australian.
Thanks again!
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for being worse than useless unhinged.
a) I have an Aussie licence, but I have not flown in aussie, nor read any of the regs. If I was about to start flying there however, I would read the air law book because there are a few things that are slightly different in each country.
b) I do not have my Aussie licence with me as I am flying overseas and do not want to lose it.
c) Not all of us spend our time teaching students this sort of thing, and the less practiced parts of the law, as opposed to give way rules, light signals and air spaces, tend to get forgotten.
Hence why help was asked for.
True that the time could have been taken in searching through the Regs online, but navigating the CASA website, just like any other civil aviation website, causes major headaches.
Its a bit easier to just ask the people in the know.
The reason why I wanted to know is that is is apparently it is easier to convert an Aussie licence to a Canadian licence than what it is to convert a NZ licence to a Canadian licence. So I was wanting to see if my licence was still valid to convert, not to fly on.
I was aware that they are a lifetime licence, but needed to know if there were anything silly like the 3 T/O and landings, or flight reviews to keep them Valid.
After reading Make it happen's post, it cleared a few things up, but raised another issue.
Is the medical required to make it VALID or is the medical required to excerise the privilage of flying PIC? You can fly without a medical... just not without an instructor.
a) I have an Aussie licence, but I have not flown in aussie, nor read any of the regs. If I was about to start flying there however, I would read the air law book because there are a few things that are slightly different in each country.
b) I do not have my Aussie licence with me as I am flying overseas and do not want to lose it.
c) Not all of us spend our time teaching students this sort of thing, and the less practiced parts of the law, as opposed to give way rules, light signals and air spaces, tend to get forgotten.
Hence why help was asked for.
True that the time could have been taken in searching through the Regs online, but navigating the CASA website, just like any other civil aviation website, causes major headaches.
Its a bit easier to just ask the people in the know.
The reason why I wanted to know is that is is apparently it is easier to convert an Aussie licence to a Canadian licence than what it is to convert a NZ licence to a Canadian licence. So I was wanting to see if my licence was still valid to convert, not to fly on.
I was aware that they are a lifetime licence, but needed to know if there were anything silly like the 3 T/O and landings, or flight reviews to keep them Valid.
After reading Make it happen's post, it cleared a few things up, but raised another issue.
Is the medical required to make it VALID or is the medical required to excerise the privilage of flying PIC? You can fly without a medical... just not without an instructor.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Well thats a big volcano...
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great post, I was wondering this a while back and tried to troll the CASA website...too, but its not easy when you are out of the system.
Thanks for your help unhinged, it was highly unhelpful and very spiteful... let me hope you arent taking that personality to work as a professional pilot!
I last used my Australian ATPL in 1997, good that its still easy to get it back to current status should I ever be mad enough to ever want to deal with CASA again (read extremely unlikely).
Thanks for your help unhinged, it was highly unhelpful and very spiteful... let me hope you arent taking that personality to work as a professional pilot!
I last used my Australian ATPL in 1997, good that its still easy to get it back to current status should I ever be mad enough to ever want to deal with CASA again (read extremely unlikely).
Millionaro,
If you are flying private ops (eg hour building), your Class 2 medical if still valid will cover you. Class 1 only required for other than PVT ops. An appropriate person will have to hold a valid Australian rating if they are an instructor, will have to be operating under an AOC that permits international operations and you will have to get permission from the relevant national authority to conduct the "training" in their airspace.
Better to keep it PVT.
And unless you hold a foreign licence, certificate of validation or whatever the situation is, you may find yourself limited to VH registered aircraft as PIC as well.
Getting more difficult!
Lilfly,
If you are under instruction, the instructor, as PIC is the only one required to hold the current medical, eg ab-initio students, prior to 1st solo are not required to have a licence. Once they go solo (ie. PIC), must hold (and carry with them) the licence and medical.
Cheers!
If you are flying private ops (eg hour building), your Class 2 medical if still valid will cover you. Class 1 only required for other than PVT ops. An appropriate person will have to hold a valid Australian rating if they are an instructor, will have to be operating under an AOC that permits international operations and you will have to get permission from the relevant national authority to conduct the "training" in their airspace.
Better to keep it PVT.
And unless you hold a foreign licence, certificate of validation or whatever the situation is, you may find yourself limited to VH registered aircraft as PIC as well.
Getting more difficult!
Lilfly,
If you are under instruction, the instructor, as PIC is the only one required to hold the current medical, eg ab-initio students, prior to 1st solo are not required to have a licence. Once they go solo (ie. PIC), must hold (and carry with them) the licence and medical.
Cheers!