MERGED: Petrol exempt from carbon tax. Aviation included?
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DRP, I envy your certainty that everything Julair and her acolytes tell you about global warming is 100% true.
What part of "There will be no carbon tax in a government that I lead" don't you get?
What part of "There will be no carbon tax in a government that I lead" don't you get?
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Paul Kelly doesn't share your certainty, DeepSea Racing Prawn.
Carbon package built on a gamble | The Australian
Carbon package built on a gamble | The Australian
The policy, above all, reflects two fundamental beliefs. First, that the science is right. For Labor and the Greens this is a no-brainer. They are contemptuous of doubts about the science… Labor’s policy is alarmist. Carbon pricing is essential because global temperatures “could rise” up to 6.4C by 2100… The only conclusion from this policy is that global warming has now become one of Labor’s deepest beliefs.
The second belief embedded in this policy is that the rest of the world is taking assertive action against global warming.
This theme underpins the entire policy and Treasury modelling. You may have thought Copenhagen was a setback for global action but this policy assumes the precise opposite. Australia is now taxing carbon on the basis that Copenhagen was a success. This follows pledges made at Copenhagen and affirmed later at Cancun…
Labor’s policy merrily asserts that “governments around the world” are acting on such commitments and, as a result, Australia’s price is its “fair share” in global terms.
These claims are heroic. They may be right. Yet such Cancun pledges are voluntary and non-binding… The truth is that real progress in each nation will be determined by domestic politics… The extent to which these ambitious pledges are realised remains highly uncertain and Labor’s assumption may be optimistic folly.
The second belief embedded in this policy is that the rest of the world is taking assertive action against global warming.
This theme underpins the entire policy and Treasury modelling. You may have thought Copenhagen was a setback for global action but this policy assumes the precise opposite. Australia is now taxing carbon on the basis that Copenhagen was a success. This follows pledges made at Copenhagen and affirmed later at Cancun…
Labor’s policy merrily asserts that “governments around the world” are acting on such commitments and, as a result, Australia’s price is its “fair share” in global terms.
These claims are heroic. They may be right. Yet such Cancun pledges are voluntary and non-binding… The truth is that real progress in each nation will be determined by domestic politics… The extent to which these ambitious pledges are realised remains highly uncertain and Labor’s assumption may be optimistic folly.
DSRP
In a free, democratic society, you would deny us the right to be
?
I have no problem with you expressing your views here, along with everyone else. In fact, you might be able to help me with something that has been troubling me for the past 4 years and which, as yet, remains unanswered.
Just what has the Labor Government done since 2007 to warrant our support?
In a free, democratic society, you would deny us the right to be
myopic, self-centred, luddite flat-earthers
I have no problem with you expressing your views here, along with everyone else. In fact, you might be able to help me with something that has been troubling me for the past 4 years and which, as yet, remains unanswered.
Just what has the Labor Government done since 2007 to warrant our support?
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Deepsea, you ask:
Errr.. history and recent events would suggest that you and people like you would, actually.
From my post#122:
"They're will be no carbon tax under a government that I lead."
Technically, maybe she could be said not to be lying in forcing this highly unpopular tax upon us now, for the government we have today could be said to actually be lead by Bob Brown rather than Julai(r) Gillard.
Why would anyone want to deny you the right to be myopic, self-centred, luddite flat-earthers ?
From my post#122:
If anyone has a better explanation of the difference between Conservative and Labour/Greens, I'm all ears. If you ever wondered what side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!
If a Conservative supporter doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a Labour/Green doesn't like guns, they want all guns outlawed.
If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
If a Labour/Green is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.
If a Conservative is gay, he quietly leads his life.
If a Labour/Green is gay, he demands legislated respect.
If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Labour/Green wonders who is going to take care of him.
If a Conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Labour/Greens demand that those they don't like should be banned.
If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
A Labour/Green non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)
If a Conservative supporter doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a Labour/Green doesn't like guns, they want all guns outlawed.
If a Conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
If a Labour/Green is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.
If a Conservative is gay, he quietly leads his life.
If a Labour/Green is gay, he demands legislated respect.
If a Conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Labour/Green wonders who is going to take care of him.
If a Conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Labour/Greens demand that those they don't like should be banned.
If a Conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
A Labour/Green non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)
Technically, maybe she could be said not to be lying in forcing this highly unpopular tax upon us now, for the government we have today could be said to actually be lead by Bob Brown rather than Julai(r) Gillard.
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Andu
From your post#122
Was it not the Howard government that passed gun control legislation?
From your post#122
If a Conservative supporter doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a Labour/Green doesn't like guns, they want all guns outlawed.
If a Labour/Green doesn't like guns, they want all guns outlawed.
Why would anyone want to deny you the right to be myopic, self-centred, luddite flat-earthers ?
That's entirely your choice.
That's entirely your choice.
Now, about that other question?
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I see no issue with being disappointed in another persons point of view, it's not the same as trying to deny them their point of view.
Now, the other question....for starters, we do have an economy that is the envy of the developed world, and, like it or not, the Rudd governments stimulus package did protect us from the worst of the GFC.
Now a question for you...explain to me the benefits of Tony Abbott's Direct Action Scheme, a scheme that not one australian economist backs.
Now, the other question....for starters, we do have an economy that is the envy of the developed world, and, like it or not, the Rudd governments stimulus package did protect us from the worst of the GFC.
Now a question for you...explain to me the benefits of Tony Abbott's Direct Action Scheme, a scheme that not one australian economist backs.
Last edited by Deepsea Racing Prawn; 14th Jul 2011 at 03:25.
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Err...perhaps Juliar is the biggest fan DRP
The government's entire supply side case collapsed when it abandoned any pretence that the tax would clean up power stations and instead turned to the heart of the Coalition Direct Action policy to do this.
After months of denying it, the government leaked that it had been secretly negotiating with the brown coal power generators to pay for a switch from coal to gas.
The reason of course is that the carbon tax will fail to achieve this objective.
In short, the ALP's decision to use Direct Action incentives to address the power sector was complete capitulation on two fronts.
Not only will a carbon tax fail to clean up any power stations, but the Direct Action approach of targeted incentives will work to convert coal to gas.
The government's entire supply side case collapsed when it abandoned any pretence that the tax would clean up power stations and instead turned to the heart of the Coalition Direct Action policy to do this.
After months of denying it, the government leaked that it had been secretly negotiating with the brown coal power generators to pay for a switch from coal to gas.
The reason of course is that the carbon tax will fail to achieve this objective.
In short, the ALP's decision to use Direct Action incentives to address the power sector was complete capitulation on two fronts.
Not only will a carbon tax fail to clean up any power stations, but the Direct Action approach of targeted incentives will work to convert coal to gas.
Oh dear Mr Prawn, how disappointing.
A 2 speed economy, with 0% business and consumer confidence and a government debt of $195 billion that is growing larger every day
v
The US, the Eurozone, Japan, Africa, South America...........hmm, I see what you mean.
Isn't there a school of thought among economists that the GFC was a Northern Hemisphere issue that little affected Australasia and that the stimulus package was poorly handled and added unnecessary inflationary pressures leading to rate rises?
sisemen
Did you know our trawlers are having a bumper season this year? Pulling in prawns everywhere.
A 2 speed economy, with 0% business and consumer confidence and a government debt of $195 billion that is growing larger every day
v
The US, the Eurozone, Japan, Africa, South America...........hmm, I see what you mean.
Isn't there a school of thought among economists that the GFC was a Northern Hemisphere issue that little affected Australasia and that the stimulus package was poorly handled and added unnecessary inflationary pressures leading to rate rises?
sisemen
Did you know our trawlers are having a bumper season this year? Pulling in prawns everywhere.
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Don't encourage the Red Troll Bar prawn. There are some people who will defend the most irresponsible actions simply because they are devout blind followers of the faith.
Anybody who defends this government is beyond help.
Anybody who defends this government is beyond help.
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It’s disappointing to see so many myopic, self-centred, luddite flat-earthers on this forum. (Could be forgiven for thinking it is a discussion amongst a group of Tea Party members.)
Although it’s not surprising given the dose of right-wing News Ltd diatribe that the general public are exposed to everyday.
Although it’s not surprising given the dose of right-wing News Ltd diatribe that the general public are exposed to everyday.
My fellow Luddites and Flat Earthers respond well to logical argument, the occasional odd bit of humour, but you opening contribution Post #145 is insulting.
The following is from Post #42 from Andy RR, which makes a lot of sense to me. You seem to be informed on the subject - what part of it do you disagree with (and why)?
Here's a practical way to understand Julia Gillard’s Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme.
Imagine 1 kilometre of atmosphere and we want to get rid of the carbon pollution in it created by human activity. Let's go for a walk along it.
The first 770 metres are Nitrogen.
The next 210 metres are Oxygen - that's 980 metres of the 1 kilometre. 20 metres to go.
The next 10 metres are water vapour. 10 metres left.
The next 9 metres are argon. Just 1 more metre.
A few gases make up the first bit of that last metre. The last 38 centimetres of the kilometre - that's carbon dioxide. A bit over one foot. 96% of that is produced by Mother Nature. It’s natural.
Out of our journey of one kilometre, there are just 14 millimetres left. Just over a centimetre - about half an inch. That’s the amount of carbon dioxide that global human activity puts into the atmosphere.
And of those 14 millimetres Australia puts in 0.21 of a millimetre. About the thickness of a hair. Out of a kilometre!
As a hair is to a kilometre - so is Australia 's contribution to what Julia Gillard calls Carbon Pollution.
Imagine Brisbane's new Gateway Bridge, ready to be opened by Julia Gillard. It's been polished, painted and scrubbed by an army of workers till its 1 kilometre length is surgically clean. Except that Julia Gillard says we have a huge problem, the bridge is polluted - there's a human hair on the roadway.
We'd laugh ourselves silly.
Imagine 1 kilometre of atmosphere and we want to get rid of the carbon pollution in it created by human activity. Let's go for a walk along it.
The first 770 metres are Nitrogen.
The next 210 metres are Oxygen - that's 980 metres of the 1 kilometre. 20 metres to go.
The next 10 metres are water vapour. 10 metres left.
The next 9 metres are argon. Just 1 more metre.
A few gases make up the first bit of that last metre. The last 38 centimetres of the kilometre - that's carbon dioxide. A bit over one foot. 96% of that is produced by Mother Nature. It’s natural.
Out of our journey of one kilometre, there are just 14 millimetres left. Just over a centimetre - about half an inch. That’s the amount of carbon dioxide that global human activity puts into the atmosphere.
And of those 14 millimetres Australia puts in 0.21 of a millimetre. About the thickness of a hair. Out of a kilometre!
As a hair is to a kilometre - so is Australia 's contribution to what Julia Gillard calls Carbon Pollution.
Imagine Brisbane's new Gateway Bridge, ready to be opened by Julia Gillard. It's been polished, painted and scrubbed by an army of workers till its 1 kilometre length is surgically clean. Except that Julia Gillard says we have a huge problem, the bridge is polluted - there's a human hair on the roadway.
We'd laugh ourselves silly.
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Deep Sea Racing Prawn- -Did you write that yourself or was it a cut and paste from the Get-Up Manual of Gratuitous Insults?
Frank, I have only been attempting to provide another viewpoint in this one-sided discussion. Obviously our political views will never match, but that’s OK. At least in this country there’s no chance of ending up in a gulag for having a particular political view.
Ovation, I did read post #42 from Andy RR. However I have to agree with the reply 18-Wheeler provided at post #54.
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At least in this country there’s no chance of ending up in a gulag for having a particular political view.
However, if the Watermelons ever get into a position of such power that they can rule alone, I fear they will drop their sheep's clothing and show their true colours, colours which brook no argument with dissenting views "because they know what's good for us all' - whether we want it or not.
.....we do have an economy that is the envy of the developed world...
There is a considered view among many economic commentators that our economy is in fact very fragile, and that some the most recent indicators (consumer confidence, housing prices, retail sales etc) coupled with developments in Europe and the US point to - at the very least - a weakening of our economy.
....the Rudd governments stimulus package did protect us from the worst of the GFC....
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...and Deep Sea Prawn, if you believe the Treasury figures that, after the government handouts, the average household will be 10 cents - not nine cents, not eleven cents, but ten cents better off - after the carbon tax kicks in, I really despair for your niavete.
I wouldn't go quite as far as to say that Stationair. We'll still be a comparatively comfortable country no matter how much damage the Gillard Greens do to the middle class in the meantime.
However, listening to Brown and Milne going on about "reviewing" media ownership etc, I somehow found my thoughts going to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Now that was a scary thought.
However, listening to Brown and Milne going on about "reviewing" media ownership etc, I somehow found my thoughts going to Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Now that was a scary thought.