ADS-B, Stuff that I have found.
Thread Starter
Plumbum,
Thats why UAT and transponder. 1090ES IS a transponder. UAT is just a broadcast of GPS vector...what makes UAT different is the bandwidth available for transmission of FIS-B and TIS-B.........thats the expensive ground station bit...not so much the ground station but what is connected to it to enable the those transmissions. Plus the fact that TIS-B is a position every 12 seconds or more...after all it is from a radar feed. UAT is ground station dependent..ES is not.
Does that mean you advocate low level roll-out, Leadsled?
And you airline folks---- don't forget ----- an aircraft with 1090ES ADS-B Out will only produce the same ACAS/TCAS response as a Mode C transponder equipped aircraft, ---- 'cause you ain't got ADS-B IN to your ACAS/TCAS 11, and are not likely to have it any time soon ---- and even when you do, the results will not be any different.
And just think --- Airservices could drop a UAT card into the vacant slot in their ground stations and Hey!! Presto!! ---- (relatively) cheap ADS-B.
Thread Starter
Newsflash-
Accord Technology has just received TSOc145c approval for the NexNav Mini
My view? This will finally enable the affordable installation of ADS-B 1090ES Tx equipment.
Accord Technology has just received TSOc145c approval for the NexNav Mini
My view? This will finally enable the affordable installation of ADS-B 1090ES Tx equipment.
Thread Starter
And from Avweb Podcasts
ADS-B options from Trig Avionics. Including comments and costs. Very pertinent point at 4:50..one snag..the cost of the TSOd GPS engine to drive these transponders..
Installation cost for Rx and Tx unit TT22 and TA60 including hardware will be less than US$5000.00 (...provided you have the GPS source...see post above
)
ADS-B options from Trig Avionics. Including comments and costs. Very pertinent point at 4:50..one snag..the cost of the TSOd GPS engine to drive these transponders..
Installation cost for Rx and Tx unit TT22 and TA60 including hardware will be less than US$5000.00 (...provided you have the GPS source...see post above
)
Thread Starter
From Dynon Avionics
Skyview Mode S transponders. ADS-B 1090ES out and supporting TIS-B/FIS-B in the US.
Couldn't find a price but supposedly US$1300 cheaper than the Garmin GTX330
Skyview Mode S transponders. ADS-B 1090ES out and supporting TIS-B/FIS-B in the US.
Couldn't find a price but supposedly US$1300 cheaper than the Garmin GTX330
Thread Starter
Honeywell Summary across five sites in the US. 1090ES increasing by about 70 to 90 frames a month.
(...provided you have the GPS source...see post above
)
Oz,
And the GPS receiver must be C145/146 compliant. I listened to the podcast, interesting that the spokesman ( or should that be spokesperson) for Trig said that the addition cost of the GPS input for the cheapest ADS-B Out solution was "not cost effective", his words, not mine.
Do I support a low level roll-out, if it was UAT ---- of course not, for the same reason as always, cost benefit. The cost might be cheaper, but still unjustified by any demonstrated safety problem, to which ADS-B is the answer.
Just to remind everybody, the "official" cost/benefit completed and made public before the JCP was published was quite clear: The broad mandate could not be justified on cost/benefits --- their words, not mine ---- the "safety" benefits continue to be extremely elusive.
Even the idea that Airservices is going to increase the number of ADS-B ground stations to provide nationwide coverage to 10,000' seems most unlikely, to provide "low level" coverage just in the J-Curve is a large capital investment, and what is Airservices going to do with it then ---- have a enough additional manned consoles to do what ???? Sit there and watch Class G airspace ???
I wonder what the airline beancounters think of some of the latest "musings" from OAR.
For the FAA, ADS-B is seen as an ATC tool, not as the answer to some widespread safety problem. With the relatively minuscule low level aviation activity in Australia ( and high level, for that matter) compared to US, what is the problem, to which mandatory ADS-B is the ( very expensive) answer.
Tootle pip!!
)Oz,
And the GPS receiver must be C145/146 compliant. I listened to the podcast, interesting that the spokesman ( or should that be spokesperson) for Trig said that the addition cost of the GPS input for the cheapest ADS-B Out solution was "not cost effective", his words, not mine.
Do I support a low level roll-out, if it was UAT ---- of course not, for the same reason as always, cost benefit. The cost might be cheaper, but still unjustified by any demonstrated safety problem, to which ADS-B is the answer.
Just to remind everybody, the "official" cost/benefit completed and made public before the JCP was published was quite clear: The broad mandate could not be justified on cost/benefits --- their words, not mine ---- the "safety" benefits continue to be extremely elusive.
Even the idea that Airservices is going to increase the number of ADS-B ground stations to provide nationwide coverage to 10,000' seems most unlikely, to provide "low level" coverage just in the J-Curve is a large capital investment, and what is Airservices going to do with it then ---- have a enough additional manned consoles to do what ???? Sit there and watch Class G airspace ???
I wonder what the airline beancounters think of some of the latest "musings" from OAR.
For the FAA, ADS-B is seen as an ATC tool, not as the answer to some widespread safety problem. With the relatively minuscule low level aviation activity in Australia ( and high level, for that matter) compared to US, what is the problem, to which mandatory ADS-B is the ( very expensive) answer.
Tootle pip!!
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Sydney Area Tx/Rx sites for 1090MHz bases:-
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Airservices Australia site MT BOYCE
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Airservices Australia Valley Rd KATOOMBA
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Cecil Park
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Cecil Park
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Gate 9 Light Pole Domestic Terminal T3 SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Gate 31 Light Pole Domestic Terminal T2 SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Sydney Terminal Control Tower SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Airservices Australia Building 237 KYEEMAGH
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences CMTS/Airservices Site 164-174 Liverpool Rd ASHFIELD
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Parallel Approach Runway Monitor SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Runway 34L Glide Path Hut SYDNEY AIRPORT SYDNEY
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Terrey Hills
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Bondi Junction
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Calga
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Calga
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Camden Tower - YSCN
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Centrepoint Tower Sydney
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Centrepoint Tower Sydney
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Wentworth Falls
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Cronulla
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Knights Hill
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Knights Hill
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Kurnell
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Pennant Hills
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Razorback
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Kurrajong Heights
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Hurstville
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Richmond
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Sydney Airport Control Tower
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Kyeemagh
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Woronora
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Airservices Australia site MT BOYCE
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Airservices Australia Valley Rd KATOOMBA
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Cecil Park
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Cecil Park
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Gate 9 Light Pole Domestic Terminal T3 SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Gate 31 Light Pole Domestic Terminal T2 SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Sydney Terminal Control Tower SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Airservices Australia Building 237 KYEEMAGH
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences CMTS/Airservices Site 164-174 Liverpool Rd ASHFIELD
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Parallel Approach Runway Monitor SYDNEY AIRPORT
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Runway 34L Glide Path Hut SYDNEY AIRPORT SYDNEY
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Terrey Hills
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Bondi Junction
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Calga
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Calga
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Camden Tower - YSCN
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Centrepoint Tower Sydney
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Centrepoint Tower Sydney
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Wentworth Falls
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Cronulla
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Knights Hill
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Knights Hill
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Kurnell
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Pennant Hills
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Razorback
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Kurrajong Heights
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Hurstville
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Richmond
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Sydney Airport Control Tower
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Kyeemagh
Australian Communications and Media Authority: Register of Radiocommunication Licences Woronora
Last edited by VK2TVK; 2nd Aug 2010 at 04:50.
Leadsled,
You are showing your naivety here ...
I don't think CBAs or rational research are relevant to Australian aviation management policy anymore.
Aviation Policy is now dictated by public opinion, fueled by alarmism.
So, your rhetoric is wasted here. Your time might be better spent trying to get the manipulators of public opinion onside.
You are showing your naivety here ...
Even the idea that Airservices is going to increase the number of ADS-B ground stations to provide nationwide coverage to 10,000' seems most unlikely, to provide "low level" coverage just in the J-Curve is a large capital investment, and what is Airservices going to do with it then ---- have a enough additional manned consoles to do what ???? Sit there and watch Class G airspace ???
I wonder what the airline beancounters think of some of the latest "musings" from OAR.
For the FAA, ADS-B is seen as an ATC tool, not as the answer to some widespread safety problem. With the relatively minuscule low level aviation activity in Australia ( and high level, for that matter) compared to US, what is the problem, to which mandatory ADS-B is the ( very expensive) answer.
I wonder what the airline beancounters think of some of the latest "musings" from OAR.
For the FAA, ADS-B is seen as an ATC tool, not as the answer to some widespread safety problem. With the relatively minuscule low level aviation activity in Australia ( and high level, for that matter) compared to US, what is the problem, to which mandatory ADS-B is the ( very expensive) answer.
Aviation Policy is now dictated by public opinion, fueled by alarmism.
So, your rhetoric is wasted here. Your time might be better spent trying to get the manipulators of public opinion onside.
Thread Starter
The Trig guy is quite correct...thanks for listening, Leadsled.
Will not ry and goad an argument. IF the NexNav mini comes in at a reasonable price point then it stands to reason that ADS-B Tx fitment is affordable.
Will not ry and goad an argument. IF the NexNav mini comes in at a reasonable price point then it stands to reason that ADS-B Tx fitment is affordable.
OZ,
It will be interesting to see if the NextNav Mini is the goods, all the way along the patents held for C145/146 receivers has been a very major issue, not just price, but getting a license to use them. Just ask the guys in Bundaberg.
Peuce,
Too true, but when Ken Henry ( or his successor) and the airlines see the bill, other forces will come into play.
Tootle pip!!
It will be interesting to see if the NextNav Mini is the goods, all the way along the patents held for C145/146 receivers has been a very major issue, not just price, but getting a license to use them. Just ask the guys in Bundaberg.
Aviation Policy is now dictated by public opinion, fueled by alarmism.
Too true, but when Ken Henry ( or his successor) and the airlines see the bill, other forces will come into play.
Tootle pip!!
Thread Starter
Certified by FAA for TSO-C145c Class Beta-1 operation
Don't you just love the way that sounds...certified
See your point, Leadsled..Garmin bought out AT Apollo just to get their hands on just such an engine...however, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
Don't you just love the way that sounds...certified
See your point, Leadsled..Garmin bought out AT Apollo just to get their hands on just such an engine...however, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
Thread Starter
Interesting article in the Boeing Aero magazine.
To quote-
A picture is worth a thousand words-
To quote-
The benefits of ADS-B to airlines
With appropriate ground and airborne equipage updates and operational procedure readiness, ADS-B may provide airlines with several benefits, including:
Safety. ADS-B gives the aviation industry the ability to maintain or improve existing safety standards while increasing system efficiency and capacity.
ADS-B significantly improves flight crews’ situational awareness because they know where they are in relation to other airplanes.
It gives a real-time, common surveillance picture to share information quickly if participating airplanes deviate from their assigned flight paths.
It offers more precise and commonly shared traffic information. All participants have a common operational picture.
It provides more accurate and timely surveillance information than radar. ADS-B provides more frequent updates than radar, which rotates once every 6 or 12 seconds for terminal and en route surveillance, respectively.
It displays both airborne and ground traffic.
It allows for a much greater margin in which to implement conflict detection and resolution than is available with any other system by providing an effective range of more than 100 nmi with high accuracy.
It clearly and immediately indicates changes as the conflicting traffic turns, accelerates, climbs, or descends.
ADS-B In applications can provide automatic traffic call-outs or warnings of imminent runway incursion
With appropriate ground and airborne equipage updates and operational procedure readiness, ADS-B may provide airlines with several benefits, including:
Safety. ADS-B gives the aviation industry the ability to maintain or improve existing safety standards while increasing system efficiency and capacity.
ADS-B significantly improves flight crews’ situational awareness because they know where they are in relation to other airplanes.
It gives a real-time, common surveillance picture to share information quickly if participating airplanes deviate from their assigned flight paths.
It offers more precise and commonly shared traffic information. All participants have a common operational picture.
It provides more accurate and timely surveillance information than radar. ADS-B provides more frequent updates than radar, which rotates once every 6 or 12 seconds for terminal and en route surveillance, respectively.
It displays both airborne and ground traffic.
It allows for a much greater margin in which to implement conflict detection and resolution than is available with any other system by providing an effective range of more than 100 nmi with high accuracy.
It clearly and immediately indicates changes as the conflicting traffic turns, accelerates, climbs, or descends.
ADS-B In applications can provide automatic traffic call-outs or warnings of imminent runway incursion
A bit more - from todays AVWEB site; (Mon27th.9.10)
"ADS-B Full Deployment By 2013
ADS-B will be fully operational in the U.S. by 2013; the FAA announced Friday that it had approved full deployment of the satellite and ground-based system. In a statement, the agency said it approved full deployment after successful testing of full systems at Philadelphia, Louisville, over the Gulf of Mexico and in Alaska proved it could work in the full range of operating conditions. "This approach ensured that ADS-B was tested in the most extreme environments, allowing the agency to uncover and resolve any anomalies before the commissioning," the statement said.
The FAA has already installed 300 of the 800 systems that will be required to ensure ADS-B provides all the coverage that radar does now. In mountainous areas, a system of ground sensors called Wide Area Multilateration will provide coverage for the nooks and crannies that the ADS-B sensors can't see. WAM will also serve as a backup for GPS in high-traffic areas. By 2020, aircraft operating in controlled airspace will have to have ADS-B out capability to announce their position and identification. If they have the optional ADS-B in they'll get cockpit displays of traffic and weather."
Just for info and interest.....
"ADS-B Full Deployment By 2013
ADS-B will be fully operational in the U.S. by 2013; the FAA announced Friday that it had approved full deployment of the satellite and ground-based system. In a statement, the agency said it approved full deployment after successful testing of full systems at Philadelphia, Louisville, over the Gulf of Mexico and in Alaska proved it could work in the full range of operating conditions. "This approach ensured that ADS-B was tested in the most extreme environments, allowing the agency to uncover and resolve any anomalies before the commissioning," the statement said.
The FAA has already installed 300 of the 800 systems that will be required to ensure ADS-B provides all the coverage that radar does now. In mountainous areas, a system of ground sensors called Wide Area Multilateration will provide coverage for the nooks and crannies that the ADS-B sensors can't see. WAM will also serve as a backup for GPS in high-traffic areas. By 2020, aircraft operating in controlled airspace will have to have ADS-B out capability to announce their position and identification. If they have the optional ADS-B in they'll get cockpit displays of traffic and weather."
Just for info and interest.....
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I used ADS-B in Alaska. Loved it. It is by far one of the best systems available for spotting traffic VFR, and very very helpful in sequencing yourself during SVFR conditions. ADS-B is the bomb diggety.
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Binghi.... sigh....
which civvy signal are you talking about ?
Yes I know that most of the world is still using the US GPS, but that's only because they were the first and have had more time to build up 'market share'.
There are 2 civilian+military systems flying now (GPS & GLONASS) and at least another 2 that have test birds up. (COMPASS & GALILEO)
There are at least 5 nations who have satellites flying for local augmentation systems (USA, Europe, India, Russia, Japan)
which civvy signal are you talking about ?
Yes I know that most of the world is still using the US GPS, but that's only because they were the first and have had more time to build up 'market share'.
There are 2 civilian+military systems flying now (GPS & GLONASS) and at least another 2 that have test birds up. (COMPASS & GALILEO)
There are at least 5 nations who have satellites flying for local augmentation systems (USA, Europe, India, Russia, Japan)
s.
From today's AVWEB Site..........
Very I N T E R E S T I N G ......
"PLANE-TRACKING PHONE APP RAISES SECURITY WORRIES
Even the early critics of ADS-B, who warned that broadcasting the position, type and altitude of individual aircraft might help terrorists target specific aircraft, probably didn't envision pointing a cellphone at an aircraft in flight and getting all those details.
But a British software company has released an iPhone/iPad and Android application called Plane Finder AR that matches the real-time ADS-B signals of passing aircraft with a database built by ADS-B-equipped planespotters and displays the ID of the plane, altitude and destination. The "AR" stands for "Augmented Reality" and it's the feature that has furrowed the brows of British lawmakers. Pointing the phone's camera at the aircraft will superimpose the aircraft's bearing and range on the screen."
The android is said to cost $3 !!!
There's more.....whole item avbl on AvWeb...
Fly Safe Boys and Girls....
Very I N T E R E S T I N G ......
"PLANE-TRACKING PHONE APP RAISES SECURITY WORRIES
Even the early critics of ADS-B, who warned that broadcasting the position, type and altitude of individual aircraft might help terrorists target specific aircraft, probably didn't envision pointing a cellphone at an aircraft in flight and getting all those details.
But a British software company has released an iPhone/iPad and Android application called Plane Finder AR that matches the real-time ADS-B signals of passing aircraft with a database built by ADS-B-equipped planespotters and displays the ID of the plane, altitude and destination. The "AR" stands for "Augmented Reality" and it's the feature that has furrowed the brows of British lawmakers. Pointing the phone's camera at the aircraft will superimpose the aircraft's bearing and range on the screen."
The android is said to cost $3 !!!
There's more.....whole item avbl on AvWeb...
Fly Safe Boys and Girls....
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 4th Oct 2010 at 10:00.