ADS-B, Stuff that I have found.
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It may happen to all you booing drivers but nobody else is going to pay up to $8,000 (Say what you will it will cost at least that) just so Captains can see them coming. Look at transponders, how many aircraft don't have them? How many "Close calls" are only TCAS alarms and not seen out the window? If it was up to some of you blokes nobody would have access to airfields because they would all be controlled airspace and we would have to have tens of thousands dollars of lectronicks ruling out everybody but booings.
Thread Starter
No SC..it isn't so Captains can see them coming but ATC sitting over 3000km away who can see them coming.
$8000 you say...I should start a business selling the stuff to guys like you....nice little mark-up
$8000 you say...I should start a business selling the stuff to guys like you....nice little mark-up
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Ozbusdriver, you done anything to your own aircraft lately? Try just getting the EO for mounting extra avionics, looking at $1,500+. What would be your estimate of supply and fitment (Including paperwork) of transponder, adsb and certified GPS?
Unfortunately Cecil, it's the cost of doing aviation ...
Even a gogomobile has to have headlights, indicators and brake lamps if it wants to travel on our roads.
As the airways get more crowded, with faster and more sophisticated machinery, even the gogomobiles of the sky, sharing the same airways ... will need to equip up.
It's in all our interests to make that exercise as inexpensive and painless as reasonably possible.
Even a gogomobile has to have headlights, indicators and brake lamps if it wants to travel on our roads.
As the airways get more crowded, with faster and more sophisticated machinery, even the gogomobiles of the sky, sharing the same airways ... will need to equip up.
It's in all our interests to make that exercise as inexpensive and painless as reasonably possible.
Thread Starter
SC...does it make any difference if I own an aeroplane or not?
I am only putting information up for you to make your own decision. It's your choice
I do have an opinion that the technology is going to happen...I was a seismic surveyor and I can tell you using technology is a lot easier and a lot more boring than having to do even first order tacheometry...in fact...my old job hardly exists because of GPS. Because of my pilot experience I knew GPS was coming in 1984...not one of my colleagues would believe that we would be superceeded by a puck mounted on the top of a dogbox and puck mounted on the top of a vibe machine. The recorder operator understood completely...just another line of data on his recordings.
Today, a survey with modern total stations compared to my old T1(state of the art for my work at the time)...I feel I was working on the slipway for the ark by comparison.
I am only putting information up for you to make your own decision. It's your choice
I do have an opinion that the technology is going to happen...I was a seismic surveyor and I can tell you using technology is a lot easier and a lot more boring than having to do even first order tacheometry...in fact...my old job hardly exists because of GPS. Because of my pilot experience I knew GPS was coming in 1984...not one of my colleagues would believe that we would be superceeded by a puck mounted on the top of a dogbox and puck mounted on the top of a vibe machine. The recorder operator understood completely...just another line of data on his recordings.
Today, a survey with modern total stations compared to my old T1(state of the art for my work at the time)...I feel I was working on the slipway for the ark by comparison.
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peuce;
If by "airways" you mean controlled airspace, I am not in a position to say whether or not they are busier or more crowded.
However I believe GA has been so decimated so as to NOT represent a "crowd" and to this extent that it is no longer feasable for your average private pilot to access this airspace. The growth of recreational aviation gives credibility to this statement. These particular "gogomobiles" in the main operate OCTA in the more than 7.5 million sq kilometers of Australian airspace with a cubic capacity that could probably be worked out by any surveyor.
OCTA aircraft simply don't need it.
Super Cecil;
ADSB is an ATC tool.
The main proponents of it want aircraft owners to pay for it. The only beneficiaries of ADSB are ATC. It does not replace TCAS. It does not replace mode C transponder. It does nothing to enhance SAR. However as peuce mentions, it is an evolutionary replacement for what we now have WHERE RADAR IS REQUIRED. Therefor you will have to
if you want to fly there when it is mandated.
The main problem is a concerted "push" by some to have it mandated for everybody and this is the catalyst for much heated debate on the subject.
As the airways get more crowded, with faster and more sophisticated machinery, even the gogomobiles of the sky, sharing the same airways ... will need to equip up
However I believe GA has been so decimated so as to NOT represent a "crowd" and to this extent that it is no longer feasable for your average private pilot to access this airspace. The growth of recreational aviation gives credibility to this statement. These particular "gogomobiles" in the main operate OCTA in the more than 7.5 million sq kilometers of Australian airspace with a cubic capacity that could probably be worked out by any surveyor.
OCTA aircraft simply don't need it.
Super Cecil;
ADSB is an ATC tool.
The main proponents of it want aircraft owners to pay for it. The only beneficiaries of ADSB are ATC. It does not replace TCAS. It does not replace mode C transponder. It does nothing to enhance SAR. However as peuce mentions, it is an evolutionary replacement for what we now have WHERE RADAR IS REQUIRED. Therefor you will have to
equip up
The main problem is a concerted "push" by some to have it mandated for everybody and this is the catalyst for much heated debate on the subject.
Thread Starter
It does not replace mode C transponder.
So, TCAS still sees the new transponder...whats the beef?
However I believe GA has been so decimated so as to NOT represent a "crowd" and to this extent that it is no longer feasable for your average private pilot to access this airspace. The growth of recreational aviation gives credibility to this statement. These particular "gogomobiles" in the main operate OCTA in the more than 7.5 million sq kilometers of Australian airspace with a cubic capacity that could probably be worked out by any surveyor.
This thread is about information!
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Apologies, I forgot you "owned" this thread.
And what did you and your zealots ever do for aviation in any decade that has succeeded.
The ADSB "subsidy" that never existed was your war cry and it was a "fizzer". But I told you that in the beginning didn't I?
This thread is about your mis-information.
And what did you and your zealots ever do for aviation in any decade that has succeeded.
The ADSB "subsidy" that never existed was your war cry and it was a "fizzer". But I told you that in the beginning didn't I?
This thread is about your mis-information.
Thread Starter
OK, SC. Money where mouth is..a straight swap of a transponder(different brand) into the same mounts and power source under an EASA type approval..how much above the cost of equipment? Do you have a C145a or 146a GPS already fitted? I see you enjoy the virtue of the benefits of a GPS295 Garmin...did you enjoy spending that amount of AU$ on a non-certified piece of equipment?
Francis...I have been warned about allowing this thread to degenerate into a slanging match ala ADS-B subsidy...I can say heaps on the subject but refuse to. Yes, I can delete the entire thread as can the moderators...so far not required and I will honour the deal.
Show one post of mine that can be construed as mis-information, Francis. Everything is linked and verifiable. Just like your recent link...bet you didn't read the entire link that you put...I bet Mr Binghi started salivating on the headlines only to have the report put forward the need for backups...very prudent. However, even my link says errors are in the order of 20m...Not good for WAAS enabled approaches but still good enough for ATC. All electrical systems are affected to some extent by solar radiation..how you deal with it is the robustness of the design.
Mis-information indeed...by the way, I think my team is batting pretty good compared to you lot!
Francis...I have been warned about allowing this thread to degenerate into a slanging match ala ADS-B subsidy...I can say heaps on the subject but refuse to. Yes, I can delete the entire thread as can the moderators...so far not required and I will honour the deal.
Show one post of mine that can be construed as mis-information, Francis. Everything is linked and verifiable. Just like your recent link...bet you didn't read the entire link that you put...I bet Mr Binghi started salivating on the headlines only to have the report put forward the need for backups...very prudent. However, even my link says errors are in the order of 20m...Not good for WAAS enabled approaches but still good enough for ATC. All electrical systems are affected to some extent by solar radiation..how you deal with it is the robustness of the design.
Mis-information indeed...by the way, I think my team is batting pretty good compared to you lot!
Thread Starter
For fully equiping a VFR aircraft that only has a VHF
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By not answering the question you are admitting it will be very expensive. If you have no idea about even how much the paperwork will cost shows you don't have much idea of real world non airline costs. I am happy working out of both non and controlled airspace.
Thread Starter
AS I do not "own' an aeroplane I do not have the need. However, I do know a good tech on my local field. I will ask the question for replacing a transponder...as for your question...what type of aircraft you talking about?
You after a TSO GPS as well? Another radio? how new is your radio..might be able to trade on a Garmin type navigator. How about just a TSO C145a with no nothing except a GPS output? Specify, if you can..and I will ask the questions Aircraft type? STC? or are we talking about a homebuilt with the need for a complete certification process.
You after a TSO GPS as well? Another radio? how new is your radio..might be able to trade on a Garmin type navigator. How about just a TSO C145a with no nothing except a GPS output? Specify, if you can..and I will ask the questions
Aircraft type? STC? or are we talking about a homebuilt with the need for a complete certification process.
Last edited by OZBUSDRIVER; 4th Jul 2010 at 09:30.
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Righto then, we're talking fitout for most VFR aircraft. For ASDB you would have to have a TSO GPS, transponder with C .
So for an aircraft to have a TSO'd GPS, ADSB and transponder fitted paperwork and out the door you wouldn't have any change from $10,000? TSO'd GPS 3, ADSB 3, transponder 2 and paperwork/fitting/EO 2. Remember most aircraft the gear will have to be mounted not just slid in, EO/fittment/wiring diagram/electrical load/W+B for such then data entry for the mods. Real world.
Back to you
So for an aircraft to have a TSO'd GPS, ADSB and transponder fitted paperwork and out the door you wouldn't have any change from $10,000? TSO'd GPS 3, ADSB 3, transponder 2 and paperwork/fitting/EO 2. Remember most aircraft the gear will have to be mounted not just slid in, EO/fittment/wiring diagram/electrical load/W+B for such then data entry for the mods. Real world.
Back to you
Thread Starter
SC....you do not need another transponder....this isn't the United States.
Actually, curiosity has tweaked my mind. I know the TT31 will fit into any KT76 pad as it was designed as a straight copy...as well as having European approval which also makes it legal here..so that must save on installation costs as approved wiring and W&B issues...so just need the C145a GPS. Will ask the question.
Actually, curiosity has tweaked my mind. I know the TT31 will fit into any KT76 pad as it was designed as a straight copy...as well as having European approval which also makes it legal here..so that must save on installation costs as approved wiring and W&B issues...so just need the C145a GPS. Will ask the question.