ADS-B, Stuff that I have found.
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AND...my opinion is that the AEA and others will beat up on the FAA until they see the error of their ways....my opinion is also the the FAA is now feeling the pain of having a unique American only system that is internally incompatable with each other...the transponder requirment is for UAT because it is NOT a transponder, where ES is!
Personally the STC path is a bit odd for avionics fitment...understand it for any device that actually manipulates or modifies the airframe...but a radio device?
Personally the STC path is a bit odd for avionics fitment...understand it for any device that actually manipulates or modifies the airframe...but a radio device?
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The transponder requirement is also for redundancy should the GPS constellation go down for any reason, a long shot but hey the aircraft already have them so just add more gear, American overkill.
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I missed a bit buried in the middle of the explanation memo, Transponders are to stay so TCAS II can remain effective, seems they have little faith in ADSB in as a viable technology for separation.
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ADSB in Alaska misleading at best.
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You could have fooled me.
The noisest proponents tried to sell it here for traffic separation in the circuit at Oodnadatta- a SAR tool- in flight collision avoidance- real time weather and data, all at a give away government funded price = $NIL.
That fizzled out to everyone having to fund their own, if and when, it was mandated. Light aircraft of every description included.
It was and remains primarily a ATC surveillance tool. In that role it does a fine job and is a natural evolution of radar where radar is used for that purpose.
It is interesting to note the "spin" being seen for what is was with the "Capstone" project. Misleading indeed!
The noisest proponents tried to sell it here for traffic separation in the circuit at Oodnadatta- a SAR tool- in flight collision avoidance- real time weather and data, all at a give away government funded price = $NIL.That fizzled out to everyone having to fund their own, if and when, it was mandated. Light aircraft of every description included.
It was and remains primarily a ATC surveillance tool. In that role it does a fine job and is a natural evolution of radar where radar is used for that purpose.
It is interesting to note the "spin" being seen for what is was with the "Capstone" project. Misleading indeed!
Hi Frank,
I think you will find that the primary use of ADS-B, as proposed by the "believers", was to initially provide ATC with a tool ... to allow them to help us with traffic separation, traffic information and SAR ... and, by the way, not only to replace existing radar, but to add to the surveillance coverage.
The secondary advantage would be to allow those aircraft with ADS-B IN, to receive a direct traffic picture in their vicinity e.g Oodnadatta circuit area.
I think you will find that the primary use of ADS-B, as proposed by the "believers", was to initially provide ATC with a tool ... to allow them to help us with traffic separation, traffic information and SAR ... and, by the way, not only to replace existing radar, but to add to the surveillance coverage.
The secondary advantage would be to allow those aircraft with ADS-B IN, to receive a direct traffic picture in their vicinity e.g Oodnadatta circuit area.
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peuce;
I had the opportunity of having the first, very first hand, face to face, Airservices briefing by the "briefer" (who should remain anon but he knows who he is),after having walked out of an AOPA meeting at Murray Bridge many years ago during a coup which was taking place. He was the guest speaker yet to be heard. He stated in no uncertain terms the "fact" that Airservices "were" going to give "us" all an ADS-B unit at "no cost" to us and it was up to "us" to sign up for it asap. It was similarly tried on at a Bankstown Trotting Club after meeting dinner of the same organisation which supported it via a couple vested interest technocrats. All you mentioned was part of the speil.
The thing was, "they" with help from a few noisy friends, tried it on, to mandate it first, which pretty well guaranteed there would be no "freebies". (remember the tooth fairy? If it's mandated why subsidise it.)
The "spin" was amazing and got very nasty indeed. I know, I copped heaps from a mob of crazy zealots who eventually succumbed to imposed dumbness. Probably someone sued somebody. (I hope they did because they ruined a good organisation).
If they had only tried to sell it as an evolutionary ATC tool, people probably would have embraced it in Australia.
I know I would have.
But I hate liars.
I had the opportunity of having the first, very first hand, face to face, Airservices briefing by the "briefer" (who should remain anon but he knows who he is),after having walked out of an AOPA meeting at Murray Bridge many years ago during a coup which was taking place. He was the guest speaker yet to be heard. He stated in no uncertain terms the "fact" that Airservices "were" going to give "us" all an ADS-B unit at "no cost" to us and it was up to "us" to sign up for it asap. It was similarly tried on at a Bankstown Trotting Club after meeting dinner of the same organisation which supported it via a couple vested interest technocrats. All you mentioned was part of the speil.
The thing was, "they" with help from a few noisy friends, tried it on, to mandate it first, which pretty well guaranteed there would be no "freebies". (remember the tooth fairy? If it's mandated why subsidise it.)
The "spin" was amazing and got very nasty indeed. I know, I copped heaps from a mob of crazy zealots who eventually succumbed to imposed dumbness. Probably someone sued somebody. (I hope they did because they ruined a good organisation).
If they had only tried to sell it as an evolutionary ATC tool, people probably would have embraced it in Australia.
I know I would have.
But I hate liars.
Frank,
As to the politics of how, or whether, or if, it would have been given to the fleet for nicks ... I don't really care ... I think that door has closed ...I'm a bit over it now.
The future should be the focus now. I still believe it's an extremely useful bit of kit to be in the Industry's arsenal... one way or the other. What form it will take, who will use it, and how, and when, and at what cost, are the interesting questions for me.
As to the politics of how, or whether, or if, it would have been given to the fleet for nicks ... I don't really care ... I think that door has closed ...I'm a bit over it now.
The future should be the focus now. I still believe it's an extremely useful bit of kit to be in the Industry's arsenal... one way or the other. What form it will take, who will use it, and how, and when, and at what cost, are the interesting questions for me.
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Look at posts 187 and 188 and if you dare ask ASA what the real story is.
I think you will find both posts say the same thing, however one has a large amount of spin on it, and its not the one by an ATC'er either!
J
PS........Time waits for no man!
I think you will find both posts say the same thing, however one has a large amount of spin on it, and its not the one by an ATC'er either!
J
PS........Time waits for no man!
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peuce;
I agree with your sentiments, however one should always remember those that fail to learn from historical mistakes are certainly doomed to a live through a repeat performance.
I'm in a fight right now for my right to earn a quid because some commo wants to take my water away from me and give it to some frogs downstream.
Same orchestra, different music mate.
I agree with your sentiments, however one should always remember those that fail to learn from historical mistakes are certainly doomed to a live through a repeat performance.
I'm in a fight right now for my right to earn a quid because some commo wants to take my water away from me and give it to some frogs downstream.
one way or the other. What form it will take, who will use it, and how, and when, and at what cost, are the interesting questions for me
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Frankie,
I know you will find it hard to believe.....but I am with you now....you have my support with the water BS............not even knowing the whole story, but I know the BS you will be facing. Having said that..........ADSB is they way of the future one way or another.
So the water you catch is yours??????? No I thought not......Fecking C
nts!!!
I hope you win on that one!
I know you will find it hard to believe.....but I am with you now....you have my support with the water BS............not even knowing the whole story, but I know the BS you will be facing. Having said that..........ADSB is they way of the future one way or another.
So the water you catch is yours??????? No I thought not......Fecking C
nts!!!I hope you win on that one!
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The question is irrelevant if you don't understand the answer. But my own curiosity is satisfied.
In the meantime, some historical philosophy for your entertainment;
'Twas a dangerous cliff, as they freely confessed,
Though to walk near its crest was so pleasant;
But over its terrible edge there had slipped
A duke and full many a peasant.
So the people said something would have to be done,
But their projects did not at all tally;
Some said, "Put a fence 'round the edge of the cliff,"
Some, "An ambulance down in the valley."
But the cry for the ambulance carried the day,
For it spread through the neighboring city;
A fence may be useful or not, it is true,
But each heart became full of pity
For those who slipped over the dangerous cliff;
And the dwellers in highway and alley
Gave pounds and gave pence, not to put up a fence,
But an ambulance down in the valley.
"For the cliff is all right, if you're careful," they said,
"And, if folks even slip and are dropping,
It isn't the slipping that hurts them so much
As the shock down below when they're stopping."
So day after day, as these mishaps occurred,
Quick forth would those rescuers sally
To pick up the victims who fell off the cliff,
With their ambulance down in the valley.
Then an old sage remarked: "It's a marvel to me
That people give far more attention
To repairing results than to stopping the cause,
When they'd much better aim at prevention.
Let us stop at its source all this mischief," cried he,
"Come, neighbors and friends, let us rally;
If the cliff we will fence, we might almost dispense
With the ambulance down in the valley."
"Oh he's a fanatic," the others rejoined,
"Dispense with the ambulance? Never!
He'd dispense with all charities, too, if he could;
No! No! We'll support them forever.
Aren't we picking up folks just as fast as they fall?
And shall this man dictate to us? Shall he?
Why should people of sense stop to put up a fence,
While the ambulance works in the valley?"
But the sensible few, who are practical too,
Will not bear with such nonsense much longer;
They believe that prevention is better than cure,
And their party will soon be the stronger.
Encourage them then, with your purse, voice, and pen,
And while other philanthropists dally,
They will scorn all pretense, and put up a stout fence
On the cliff that hangs over the valley.
Better guide well the young than reclaim them when old,
For the voice of true wisdom is calling.
"To rescue the fallen is good, but 'tis best
To prevent other people from falling."
Better close up the source of temptation and crime
Than deliver from dungeon or galley;
Better put a strong fence 'round the top of the cliff
Than an ambulance down in the valley.
-- Joseph Malins (1895)
In the meantime, some historical philosophy for your entertainment;
'Twas a dangerous cliff, as they freely confessed,
Though to walk near its crest was so pleasant;
But over its terrible edge there had slipped
A duke and full many a peasant.
So the people said something would have to be done,
But their projects did not at all tally;
Some said, "Put a fence 'round the edge of the cliff,"
Some, "An ambulance down in the valley."
But the cry for the ambulance carried the day,
For it spread through the neighboring city;
A fence may be useful or not, it is true,
But each heart became full of pity
For those who slipped over the dangerous cliff;
And the dwellers in highway and alley
Gave pounds and gave pence, not to put up a fence,
But an ambulance down in the valley.
"For the cliff is all right, if you're careful," they said,
"And, if folks even slip and are dropping,
It isn't the slipping that hurts them so much
As the shock down below when they're stopping."
So day after day, as these mishaps occurred,
Quick forth would those rescuers sally
To pick up the victims who fell off the cliff,
With their ambulance down in the valley.
Then an old sage remarked: "It's a marvel to me
That people give far more attention
To repairing results than to stopping the cause,
When they'd much better aim at prevention.
Let us stop at its source all this mischief," cried he,
"Come, neighbors and friends, let us rally;
If the cliff we will fence, we might almost dispense
With the ambulance down in the valley."
"Oh he's a fanatic," the others rejoined,
"Dispense with the ambulance? Never!
He'd dispense with all charities, too, if he could;
No! No! We'll support them forever.
Aren't we picking up folks just as fast as they fall?
And shall this man dictate to us? Shall he?
Why should people of sense stop to put up a fence,
While the ambulance works in the valley?"
But the sensible few, who are practical too,
Will not bear with such nonsense much longer;
They believe that prevention is better than cure,
And their party will soon be the stronger.
Encourage them then, with your purse, voice, and pen,
And while other philanthropists dally,
They will scorn all pretense, and put up a stout fence
On the cliff that hangs over the valley.
Better guide well the young than reclaim them when old,
For the voice of true wisdom is calling.
"To rescue the fallen is good, but 'tis best
To prevent other people from falling."
Better close up the source of temptation and crime
Than deliver from dungeon or galley;
Better put a strong fence 'round the top of the cliff
Than an ambulance down in the valley.
-- Joseph Malins (1895)
Thread Starter
thanks for that link, Frank. Interesting podcast.
Imagine a ground receiver on top of Mt Mowbulin....
However, I was led to believe that the Capstone guys had put receiver/transmitter sites in to attempt to eliminate that problem..so there you go.
Try to take this as appolitical as possible...The CASA wants to mandate by December 2013 for ALL aircraft.
[Drift]Pretty cool that a mob of "well meaning" Wentworth group """EXPERTS""" make a statement in the height of the biggest droubt in recent memory to save the Murray and proceed to use the argument that farmers proved they can do it tough with limited water because they survived that drought...so can easily afford to forgo water for the environment
...Feel for you, Frank[/Drift]
Imagine a ground receiver on top of Mt Mowbulin....
However, I was led to believe that the Capstone guys had put receiver/transmitter sites in to attempt to eliminate that problem..so there you go.
Try to take this as appolitical as possible...The CASA wants to mandate by December 2013 for ALL aircraft.
[Drift]Pretty cool that a mob of "well meaning" Wentworth group """EXPERTS""" make a statement in the height of the biggest droubt in recent memory to save the Murray and proceed to use the argument that farmers proved they can do it tough with limited water because they survived that drought...so can easily afford to forgo water for the environment
...Feel for you, Frank[/Drift]
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Sometimes we all have to pull together for a common good. Goes for water or aviation.
I admit to being a bit biased when discussing ADSB and I guess it's time to play with what we may be dealt with and forget the lead up bull$hit we were fed.
I had a feeling they would pull this mandate for ALL aircraft again so it doesn't surprise me.
Time to pull together I think.
I admit to being a bit biased when discussing ADSB and I guess it's time to play with what we may be dealt with and forget the lead up bull$hit we were fed.
I had a feeling they would pull this mandate for ALL aircraft again so it doesn't surprise me.
Time to pull together I think.