Requirements for Tailwheel Endorsment
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: oz
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Requirements for Tailwheel Endorsment
Been looking around and struggling to find the min. requirements for a tailwheel endorsment. Going to do aeros in a citabria soon and thought if im going to meet the requirments in course of doing them, i may as well get it added to my licence.
Thanks
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: the back of my falcoon
Age: 41
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no min's as such for a tail wheel endo, all thats required is that you meet the standard req'd & the schools happy to let you loose in their aircraft, usually they say it'll take approx 5hrs but depends on your previous experiences etc can easily be done in 2hrs if your feet are on the ball!
Grandpa Aerotart
Why? (rhetorical) The approach/round out/flare/landing attitude is identical between a TW and NW aircraft...what happens next, in the TW, provides the challenge
In WW2 training movies for pilots transitioning onto NW aircraft they simply say, over and over, DONT be 'nose-wheel conscious' just land normally.
In WW2 training movies for pilots transitioning onto NW aircraft they simply say, over and over, DONT be 'nose-wheel conscious' just land normally.
Shame they aren't used in training as much these days. NW's have led to a big decrease in student's appreciation for the use of rudder IMO.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why? (rhetorical) The approach/round out/flare/landing attitude is identical between a TW and NW aircraft..
Are you sure?
Is there not a difference in the height above the surface at which you flare and the touch down attitude when performing a wheel landing and the height at which you flare and the touch down attitude in a nose wheel airplane?
Or is the wheel landing no longer taught?
Are you sure?
Is there not a difference in the height above the surface at which you flare and the touch down attitude when performing a wheel landing and the height at which you flare and the touch down attitude in a nose wheel airplane?
Or is the wheel landing no longer taught?
Grandpa Aerotart
Well maybe I should have said 'similar' and perhaps that is a product of the vast majority of my tailwheel time (just shy 1000hrs) being in Cessna 185s and the vast majority of that 3 pointing or tail low wheelers into crappy little jungle strips in my youth...maybe 1 landing in 10 a wheel landing on a sealed runway. Only have a handful of hours in oleo undercarriage tail draggers which seemed easier to wheel land on sealed runways.
I have flown Winjeel(1950s RAAF trainer)/C180/V35/C210 in the last year or so and I honestly don't see a huge difference until the main wheels touch.
These days I am lucky to fly Cessna's finest maybe two or three times a year...I certainly don't lay claim to the polish of my youth
That is slowly changing though...more mates are buying Cessna tail draggers...I get to sample a mates recently purchased C195 in April and another has recently finished a ground up restoration on his early 60s 185
To answer the thread starter...my initial TW training, early 80s, was 3 hours in a Decathlon.
I have flown Winjeel(1950s RAAF trainer)/C180/V35/C210 in the last year or so and I honestly don't see a huge difference until the main wheels touch.
These days I am lucky to fly Cessna's finest maybe two or three times a year...I certainly don't lay claim to the polish of my youth
That is slowly changing though...more mates are buying Cessna tail draggers...I get to sample a mates recently purchased C195 in April and another has recently finished a ground up restoration on his early 60s 185
To answer the thread starter...my initial TW training, early 80s, was 3 hours in a Decathlon.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 22nd Jan 2009 at 16:37.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just thought I would comment Chimbu.
Of course there are different methods that suit different situations and are quite often airplane specific.
Having said that I personally think that both wheel landing and three point landing skills have to be taught and used as needed.
In Canada we have a new generation who seem to think that teaching the wheel landing is not needed....mostly because they were never taught them because their instructors couldn't do them. And thus the dumbing down of aviation continues.
Silly Old Git
Wheeler schmeeler..
Really I think its a matter of being able to turn a BOING! into something neat and tidy without having to apply much thought to it.
Speaking of BOINGS! I await your assessment of the 195 Chuckley
Really I think its a matter of being able to turn a BOING! into something neat and tidy without having to apply much thought to it.
Speaking of BOINGS! I await your assessment of the 195 Chuckley
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Windy Capital
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In Canada we have a new generation who seem to think that teaching the wheel landing is not needed....mostly because they were never taught them because their instructors couldn't do them. And thus the dumbing down of aviation continues.
I have done most of my flying with nw aircraft and due to an employment opportunity recently, I now instruct on tw a/c. It has certainly improved my flying skills and solved the complacent Piper pilot feet as they have to dance a lot more! I get the most pleasure out of a perfectly executed wheeler landing, especially on a challenging day.
The school where I instruct only has tail wheel aircraft on line for training, so the students know no different at the ab-initio stage. Later on in their flying I should imagine the skills taught will stand them in good stead.
All of our students are taught 3 point and wheeler landings as a matter of course. As it says on our training notes - "some days a wheeler landing is the only way of getting the aircraft down in one piece".
Last edited by Mr & Mrs Rocketboots; 22nd Jan 2009 at 17:59. Reason: Add further comment
In WW2 training movies for pilots transitioning onto NW aircraft they simply say, over and over, DONT be 'nose-wheel conscious' just land normally.
I find that most people have enough trouble learning just one other new way of landing an aeroplane so I just teach threepointers. Crosswinds up to the AFM limit are fine with that technique. The same technique is suitable for transition into flying a Pitts.
Once pilots have some solo experience I'm happy to do wheelers with them - its their choice.
For those who seek a tailwheel endorsement to go and fly something else then I'll happily teach wheelers too. I also do wheelers with instructors who want to teach on tailwheels.
However, my typical student sticks with the Decathlon. From memory, that old draft CASA MOS supported my approach above. I'm sure that my insurance company would agree too.
On the other hand, one of my good friends, an instructor who I regard as a master of tailwheel operations disagrees with me - he insists on wheelers as well in the endorsement.
Recommended reading are these notes from Rich Stowell although with an American flavour and their rules.
Two excellent books are avalable locally.
CC,
any chance your friend would swap some 185 time for a bit of 195 time?
As to the other matters on this thread, the most important thing to do after your conversion, is to go out and seriously consolidate what you have been taught in the TW training. Any time you have to think about what is required, the machine will have probably got away from you.
I am a liability in a N/W aircraft these days and have to remind myself not to check forward on the controls after touch-down.
185.
any chance your friend would swap some 185 time for a bit of 195 time?
As to the other matters on this thread, the most important thing to do after your conversion, is to go out and seriously consolidate what you have been taught in the TW training. Any time you have to think about what is required, the machine will have probably got away from you.
I am a liability in a N/W aircraft these days and have to remind myself not to check forward on the controls after touch-down.
185.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was taught both wheeler and three point during my training, but was discouraged from using the wheeler. I actually find the wheel landing a better option and use it more often than not. I tend to get a little slower and three point into short strips and on sealed, but am happy enough with either. I guess it comes down to what you have the most exposure to, or what your most comfortable with. I went from DH82a to PA18 to C185, then swapped between the pawnee, C188, thrush Etc without problem. The 185 had the longer legs and pod and took a couple of landings to get used to though, but was easy enough once you get it right once.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did whoever tried to discourage you from doing wheel landings give you a reason?
Personally I wheel land about 80% of the time regardless of what tail wheel airplane I am flying...the only tail wheel airplane that I have flown that is difficult to wheel on is the Pitts S2B and that is because of the poor visibility out of the thing.
Personally I wheel land about 80% of the time regardless of what tail wheel airplane I am flying...the only tail wheel airplane that I have flown that is difficult to wheel on is the Pitts S2B and that is because of the poor visibility out of the thing.