Was the Nomad really that bad?
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HC Sleeze operated one N22 'CRI' which I think was the original Nomad demonstrator and well worn by the time it got to Bamaga for the Littoral surveillance. It was placed there after the Avgas shortage of 1980. The initial Nomad endorsement for the Customs Searchmaster contract was done by rotating pilots through Bamaga from where the shrikes did the Cape York run around the Gulf.
There were three N22S Searchmasters, based Port Hedland, Darwin and Townsville for Customs, which began in February '81. VH-CEI was the intial Hedland aircraft.
Much of the early Port Hedland operation was inland, doing PR for Customs as they set up their network of 'ears' because of the suspected night drug overflights coming down from the north. (This was in response to the aero commander that bellied in Northern Territory a year or so earlier) One trip we worked our way from Kalumbarru to Esperance without getting offshore. Most other flights were crew positioning for the patrol boats.
Longest flight I did was shadowing the '81 Bali to Dampier yacht race with 9:40 in the logbook (Hedland - Karratha - Hedland) with most of that first nine hours at less than 1,500 ft up to 250 nm out from Hedland - no chip lights that day! Just the radar operator and myself and no dunny up front. (The Searchmaster had extended wingtip tanks for range)
I found the seat very comfortable, but it was a new aircraft.
Self contained Nav was Doppler but when the airspeed dropped below about 100 knots - it went into airmode and continued on the last known heading/speed - very handy when orbiting a yacht to see your lat/long heading for the horizon!
The bubble observer windows and searchmaster radar dome under the chin effectively killed any single engine performance above ground effect.
I enjoyed flying the Nomad over flat terrain, but avoided flying it when I went to Douglas in PNG - Daru in a Bongo was safer than a Nomad in the jungle.
There were three N22S Searchmasters, based Port Hedland, Darwin and Townsville for Customs, which began in February '81. VH-CEI was the intial Hedland aircraft.
Much of the early Port Hedland operation was inland, doing PR for Customs as they set up their network of 'ears' because of the suspected night drug overflights coming down from the north. (This was in response to the aero commander that bellied in Northern Territory a year or so earlier) One trip we worked our way from Kalumbarru to Esperance without getting offshore. Most other flights were crew positioning for the patrol boats.
Longest flight I did was shadowing the '81 Bali to Dampier yacht race with 9:40 in the logbook (Hedland - Karratha - Hedland) with most of that first nine hours at less than 1,500 ft up to 250 nm out from Hedland - no chip lights that day! Just the radar operator and myself and no dunny up front. (The Searchmaster had extended wingtip tanks for range)
I found the seat very comfortable, but it was a new aircraft.
Self contained Nav was Doppler but when the airspeed dropped below about 100 knots - it went into airmode and continued on the last known heading/speed - very handy when orbiting a yacht to see your lat/long heading for the horizon!
The bubble observer windows and searchmaster radar dome under the chin effectively killed any single engine performance above ground effect.
I enjoyed flying the Nomad over flat terrain, but avoided flying it when I went to Douglas in PNG - Daru in a Bongo was safer than a Nomad in the jungle.
Lets see Flying-Spike and associated mass in the left seat and a strong gusty quartering tailwind from the right hand side, would have made for an interesting sight at PID!
Many moons ago purchasing a flying magazine at the local surburban newsagency, the guy behind the counter says, "do you realise at one stage I had the good fortune to own the largest fleet of Nomads in Australia?" He then went onto say that he had worked for a finance company and they had a number of repossed N22/N24's parked at YMMB and YSBK hoping that they would get struck by a meteorite, lightening, flash flood or tsnuami and could be written of for scrap metal.
Many moons ago purchasing a flying magazine at the local surburban newsagency, the guy behind the counter says, "do you realise at one stage I had the good fortune to own the largest fleet of Nomads in Australia?" He then went onto say that he had worked for a finance company and they had a number of repossed N22/N24's parked at YMMB and YSBK hoping that they would get struck by a meteorite, lightening, flash flood or tsnuami and could be written of for scrap metal.
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S8
Some people say you are a wit. I tend to think you are only half way there.
You should read the CASA estimates thread about slinging crap from anonymity. Obviously I upset you somewhere in our careers and you have never gotten over it. Lets hope you never do.
P.S. I have heard it all before, over many years so you may as well save what breath you have left.
You should read the CASA estimates thread about slinging crap from anonymity. Obviously I upset you somewhere in our careers and you have never gotten over it. Lets hope you never do.
P.S. I have heard it all before, over many years so you may as well save what breath you have left.
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N22/N24
Hi, first post here,
Had the opertunity to work on several Nomads. N24 BRP, N22's SNX,WRT and nutrimedics amphib 22 owned by Vic Walton, if right, were they really that bad? well they had their design shortcomings but if you had a good one and looked after it with good maint and good pilots they were ok, i s'pose. But bit of a pig to work on in some areas. try rebulding the brake master cyls buried way down below the floor, had hot section swaps down pat. stupid oleo gear. heavy not wide enough and squatted to easy. all the sheet metal could have gone up a grade or two. stab had to be removed every 100 hrs and really checked properly for skin/ spar cracks distortion of the spar and the stub fin had the same treatment, pivot bolts had to be replaced. the AD book was pretty big, three times as thick as the twin otters. They filled my SOE logs real quick and made some money out of them. BRP was the factory demonstrator and had an interesting log as it had flown around the world with new nose gear fitted in Sweden after it ran off the end of the strip. plus a couple of engine swaps injested the rubber grease nipple cover from the compressor no1 bearing. and a couple of other little hick ups. SNX was operated by Freddo's safety council earlier on. WRT was a alkazelsa tablet from operating out to the islands in queensland i knicknamed it 'lady canetoad'.
All of those three ended their days worn out from paraops. the one in the photo going vertical the wrong way was DNM. this ended up as the 'Leongatha chook house' after the pilot flamed out both just after t/o due to poor fuel managemnet. then pranged again trying to fly out. WRT just cost to much to keep in the air. BRP went gear up at corowa on a go around when it could not beat the sink from the thunderstorm. was never the same after that. the aircraft slid couple of hundred meters before the power was pulled. pretty much shook itself apart.
The nomads used in Florida for customs were owned and operated by Dolphin Air. Australian Aerospace (GAF) had the big tail mod and cure all ready to go they had to hang back from implementing it to the remaining fleet until the US court case between them and Dolphin Air was finalised. One was lost due to loss of control due to stab failure.
N24 needed about 60 kg in the rear locker if only two crew on board.
nomads they were ok but i really prefer 320 series Twin Otters. these are not good if you are an eager AME in training wanting to fill your SOE's.
Had the opertunity to work on several Nomads. N24 BRP, N22's SNX,WRT and nutrimedics amphib 22 owned by Vic Walton, if right, were they really that bad? well they had their design shortcomings but if you had a good one and looked after it with good maint and good pilots they were ok, i s'pose. But bit of a pig to work on in some areas. try rebulding the brake master cyls buried way down below the floor, had hot section swaps down pat. stupid oleo gear. heavy not wide enough and squatted to easy. all the sheet metal could have gone up a grade or two. stab had to be removed every 100 hrs and really checked properly for skin/ spar cracks distortion of the spar and the stub fin had the same treatment, pivot bolts had to be replaced. the AD book was pretty big, three times as thick as the twin otters. They filled my SOE logs real quick and made some money out of them. BRP was the factory demonstrator and had an interesting log as it had flown around the world with new nose gear fitted in Sweden after it ran off the end of the strip. plus a couple of engine swaps injested the rubber grease nipple cover from the compressor no1 bearing. and a couple of other little hick ups. SNX was operated by Freddo's safety council earlier on. WRT was a alkazelsa tablet from operating out to the islands in queensland i knicknamed it 'lady canetoad'.
All of those three ended their days worn out from paraops. the one in the photo going vertical the wrong way was DNM. this ended up as the 'Leongatha chook house' after the pilot flamed out both just after t/o due to poor fuel managemnet. then pranged again trying to fly out. WRT just cost to much to keep in the air. BRP went gear up at corowa on a go around when it could not beat the sink from the thunderstorm. was never the same after that. the aircraft slid couple of hundred meters before the power was pulled. pretty much shook itself apart.
The nomads used in Florida for customs were owned and operated by Dolphin Air. Australian Aerospace (GAF) had the big tail mod and cure all ready to go they had to hang back from implementing it to the remaining fleet until the US court case between them and Dolphin Air was finalised. One was lost due to loss of control due to stab failure.
N24 needed about 60 kg in the rear locker if only two crew on board.
nomads they were ok but i really prefer 320 series Twin Otters. these are not good if you are an eager AME in training wanting to fill your SOE's.
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no chip lights that day
We had a Nomad come over for a skydive boogie many moons ago and it was always have chip light indications.
Bottums Up
What is the most common cause for chip lights on the Allison 250 ?
God I'm getting old & old-timer's disease is setting in.
I knew the rego BRP rang a bell but not till I saw the photos above, did the penny drop. Archie Van Dongen did my first turbine endorsement in that same wee beastie out of Toowoomba, in the late 90's.
My first flight was in a N24 Air North Nomad, NTAMS contract, when I was 2 and a half years old. I got to sit in the RHS and my old man was flying it. Ever since I have wanted to fly one, but I feel I have missed the boat on that one...
A helicopter engine turned upside down!
I have never flown one, or in one , so I have no opinion.
Hope GA address all of these issues
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Chippies
I was a black hander on them when the Army first got them then an alltrades after 3 years in a chopper squadron and worst of the chip detectors was the one on the reduction gearbox. It was the hardest to get to and lit up the most with the degradation of the remains of the prop brake that was still in those gearboxes though not operable in the aircraft. Next worst was the cracks in the flutes on the horizontal stabiliser trim tab. Both of which gave us so much grief that we had to accompany the aircraft on any flight away from Oakey.
I had a day return trip to Bankstown extended to two weeks due to an engine failure and subsequent change (gearbox chips) Still, it was nice to fly fixed wing and be forced to land at an aerodrome (with motel overnights) rather than have the Kiowa go u/s and land in a paddock to do the repairs
I had a day return trip to Bankstown extended to two weeks due to an engine failure and subsequent change (gearbox chips) Still, it was nice to fly fixed wing and be forced to land at an aerodrome (with motel overnights) rather than have the Kiowa go u/s and land in a paddock to do the repairs
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Indonesian Navy Nomads to be Retired
Navy to ground 27 old war machines
The Jakarta Post | Mon, 12/21/2009 3:01 PM | National
The Indonesian Navy is to ground six warships and 21 Nomad surveillance planes as part of its gradual phasing-out of its aging war machines.
Navy chief Vice Adm. Agus Suhartono said on Monday the armed force would maintain six other Nomad planes as training aircraft for cadets. It has also struck a deal worth US$80 million to purchase three maritime patrol aircraft from state aircraft maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) as replacements for the old Nomads.
“The three CN-235 maritime patrol planes and the six remaining Nomads [are] adequate to conduct surveillance duties,” Agus told Antara news agency.
He said PT DI would develop a more sophisticated surveillance aircraft for the Navy.
“In the future the aircraft [will be] equipped with anti-submarine technology, depending on equipment, operational needs and technical specifications that we want,” Agus said.
The Jakarta Post | Mon, 12/21/2009 3:01 PM | National
The Indonesian Navy is to ground six warships and 21 Nomad surveillance planes as part of its gradual phasing-out of its aging war machines.
Navy chief Vice Adm. Agus Suhartono said on Monday the armed force would maintain six other Nomad planes as training aircraft for cadets. It has also struck a deal worth US$80 million to purchase three maritime patrol aircraft from state aircraft maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia (DI) as replacements for the old Nomads.
“The three CN-235 maritime patrol planes and the six remaining Nomads [are] adequate to conduct surveillance duties,” Agus told Antara news agency.
He said PT DI would develop a more sophisticated surveillance aircraft for the Navy.
“In the future the aircraft [will be] equipped with anti-submarine technology, depending on equipment, operational needs and technical specifications that we want,” Agus said.
Don't hold your breath for surplus sales, it normally takes 3 to 4 yrs for the military to sell off surplus aircraft after they have been retired.
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I remember in the mid 80s FHR and FHS operating the PH-RTI-PH run for Rottnest Airbus. Had a large Quokka painted on the side holding a surfboard.
Alex ? used to be the main pilot for them, not sure if he was the CP or not. They were loads of fun to sequence back from the island. Westerly blowing always made them number 1 for RWY 11, hell they'd take 10 kts downwind to do it! Easterly blowing, toss a coin and it could be No 3,4, or 5!!
Alex ? used to be the main pilot for them, not sure if he was the CP or not. They were loads of fun to sequence back from the island. Westerly blowing always made them number 1 for RWY 11, hell they'd take 10 kts downwind to do it! Easterly blowing, toss a coin and it could be No 3,4, or 5!!
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I'm guessing that not every poster here flew the Nomad, so a lot of what is written is hearsay.
I did about 1500 hours on the N22 & N24, and found both to be quite good for the role for which they were designed.
The problem faced by the design team was that they were given funding incrementally, so had to change the design as they went depending on what funds were available, and the result was probably more changed appearance than much else, e.g., the gear was going to be retractable into the fuselage, then money ran out, so it was going to be fixed, then more funding became available, hence the pods, and on it went.
I don't recall a better STOL aircraft in that category, and getting into and out of 1000' strips with trees to about 80' right to the threshold was quite normal, and exhilirating. Landing at Kununurra on the 60 metre stopway and taxying off at the threshold taxyway was a good example of short field performance.
On takeoff, it would accelerate well to about 60 knots and then flaps were selected, and it would fly off the ground like a helicopter
An approach into Danger Point with a couple of small fires for the threshold and a 4WD at the other end shining lights down the runway to keep us straight on landing is a nice memory; all to evacuate a petrol sniffing kid!!
The only bad fault I recall was a slow roll rate and I even more vividly recall finding myself all but upside down in some heavy weather down near Troughton Island one night.
I look back on my Nomad flying with great fondness and if that sort of flying paid more, I'd go back and do it tomorow.
I did about 1500 hours on the N22 & N24, and found both to be quite good for the role for which they were designed.
The problem faced by the design team was that they were given funding incrementally, so had to change the design as they went depending on what funds were available, and the result was probably more changed appearance than much else, e.g., the gear was going to be retractable into the fuselage, then money ran out, so it was going to be fixed, then more funding became available, hence the pods, and on it went.
I don't recall a better STOL aircraft in that category, and getting into and out of 1000' strips with trees to about 80' right to the threshold was quite normal, and exhilirating. Landing at Kununurra on the 60 metre stopway and taxying off at the threshold taxyway was a good example of short field performance.
On takeoff, it would accelerate well to about 60 knots and then flaps were selected, and it would fly off the ground like a helicopter
An approach into Danger Point with a couple of small fires for the threshold and a 4WD at the other end shining lights down the runway to keep us straight on landing is a nice memory; all to evacuate a petrol sniffing kid!!
The only bad fault I recall was a slow roll rate and I even more vividly recall finding myself all but upside down in some heavy weather down near Troughton Island one night.
I look back on my Nomad flying with great fondness and if that sort of flying paid more, I'd go back and do it tomorow.
Silly Old Git
Ah "Truffton Island" I knew of somebody that landed a Nomad there before it was opened in the early 80's
Grass up to the doors, terrific collection of clam shells take yer pick, nobody had been out there for years....
Grass up to the doors, terrific collection of clam shells take yer pick, nobody had been out there for years....
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Yesmad!
I have often thought that if the design & development team knew then what they we know now, what sort of machine would it have been?
It is the only machine that has gone some way to rivaling the Twin Otter!
Despite all its nuances! I guess it was not too bad, but as I said in an earlier post, I would not care to get re acquainted with the old tart.
If the Chain driven U/C system, Empenarge, and the choice of noise makers been different (PT6-s fitted), it could have been a different animal from a purely Pilots perspective.
Empty on strip work it out shone a 300 series empty Twotter:
At MAUW on Take off it used a far greater distance than a Twotter:
At MAUW on landing it out shone a Twotter.
If the strip was wet, the Otter was far superior, and felt more ground controllable, (safer).
At MAUW to lose an engine on takeoff, I would want to be in a Twin Otter.
H/Snort.
It is the only machine that has gone some way to rivaling the Twin Otter!
Despite all its nuances! I guess it was not too bad, but as I said in an earlier post, I would not care to get re acquainted with the old tart.
If the Chain driven U/C system, Empenarge, and the choice of noise makers been different (PT6-s fitted), it could have been a different animal from a purely Pilots perspective.
Empty on strip work it out shone a 300 series empty Twotter:
At MAUW on Take off it used a far greater distance than a Twotter:
At MAUW on landing it out shone a Twotter.
If the strip was wet, the Otter was far superior, and felt more ground controllable, (safer).
At MAUW to lose an engine on takeoff, I would want to be in a Twin Otter.
H/Snort.
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The N22 was a much smaller airplane than a Twin Otter, how can you compare them? A Zenith Sport will get off the ground faster than either but what is the point of that comparison? The N24 was not a STOL airplane so again what is the point of comparing them?
What do you get for your money? Does the airplane carry the payload as far as you want? Can the airplane operate in the airfields you need it to? How much does it cost to maintain, to run?
Within those parameters, is there a better/best airplane?
So far as I can see, there is no other airplane in the same group as the Nomad. No turbine airplane of similar weight and speed. Maybe a Conquest or Aerocommander? How does the Nomad compare to those?
I only flew the N22 but I enjoyed doing so. It could take off from a 5000 foot strip, climb to 1000 feet and descend again to land straight ahead on the same strip, with room to spare.
It flew fast enough for me, was not underpowered, had good control feel and never let me down. I flew it between islands in the South Pacific 90 minutes from land with absolutely no problems and no worries. Had good single engine performance too, compared to other airplanes of its class.
Would fly one again in a heart beat.
I am sorry it got such bad press and a lack of support from the people who should have been its champion: the aussie pilots.
What do you get for your money? Does the airplane carry the payload as far as you want? Can the airplane operate in the airfields you need it to? How much does it cost to maintain, to run?
Within those parameters, is there a better/best airplane?
So far as I can see, there is no other airplane in the same group as the Nomad. No turbine airplane of similar weight and speed. Maybe a Conquest or Aerocommander? How does the Nomad compare to those?
I only flew the N22 but I enjoyed doing so. It could take off from a 5000 foot strip, climb to 1000 feet and descend again to land straight ahead on the same strip, with room to spare.
It flew fast enough for me, was not underpowered, had good control feel and never let me down. I flew it between islands in the South Pacific 90 minutes from land with absolutely no problems and no worries. Had good single engine performance too, compared to other airplanes of its class.
Would fly one again in a heart beat.
I am sorry it got such bad press and a lack of support from the people who should have been its champion: the aussie pilots.