Flying the DC3
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Talking of overspeeding props, there is an interesting procedure for a prop overspeed during takeoff. This could be the result of a sheared CSU drive shaft; the CSU senses an underspeed and schedules the prop full fine. If power from the engine was required, rather than shut it down, the trick was to coarsen the prop with judicious, intermittent use of the Feather pump.
Ted McKenzie, who was flying 3s since before Adam was a boy, illustrates the technique in perhaps more dubious circumstances.
It’s the late 50s, a ferry from Richmond to Sydney, and the outfit he was involved with was under the scrutiny of the regulator so an engine shut down would not have assisted their cause. Ted relates, “Takeoff was normal and all went well until at about 500 ft the starboard airscrew ran away. I wanted to avoid at all costs generating an incident and increased power on the starboard and controlling revs with the feathering button. However, the feathering caper was only a short term solution and on reaching 1000 ft we allowed the engine to feather.
“Fortunately Radar did not notice our abnormally low airspeed and I made contact with Sydney Tower and requested priority landing, subtly stressing that I did not wish to be faced with having to go around from the approach. They obliged and did not query the request. At a reasonable distance out, I unfeathered the starboard and we proceeded with low power and coarse on that side. All went as planned and we taxied to the hangar as though nothing had happened – which of course it hadn’t.”
For full story:
ADASTRA AERIAL SURVEYS - Adastra's Doug
Ted McKenzie, who was flying 3s since before Adam was a boy, illustrates the technique in perhaps more dubious circumstances.
It’s the late 50s, a ferry from Richmond to Sydney, and the outfit he was involved with was under the scrutiny of the regulator so an engine shut down would not have assisted their cause. Ted relates, “Takeoff was normal and all went well until at about 500 ft the starboard airscrew ran away. I wanted to avoid at all costs generating an incident and increased power on the starboard and controlling revs with the feathering button. However, the feathering caper was only a short term solution and on reaching 1000 ft we allowed the engine to feather.
“Fortunately Radar did not notice our abnormally low airspeed and I made contact with Sydney Tower and requested priority landing, subtly stressing that I did not wish to be faced with having to go around from the approach. They obliged and did not query the request. At a reasonable distance out, I unfeathered the starboard and we proceeded with low power and coarse on that side. All went as planned and we taxied to the hangar as though nothing had happened – which of course it hadn’t.”
For full story:
ADASTRA AERIAL SURVEYS - Adastra's Doug
Chuck led with -
to which I come back with -
A virile old bugger goes to see his quack and find out the results of some tests. The doc says to him, well we've got all these results back from the lab, but they're rather inconclusive. In fact it could be that you've got a dose of the clap or it could be that you test positive for alzheimers. What I want you to do is go home. And if you do manage to remember where home is, whatever you do, do not give the missus a poke.
A joke's a joke. A smoke's a smoke. A poke's a poke. But to talk about it's effing ridiculous.
Speaking of catching the clap.
Mixed emotions is when you get back home after an out of town trip that you caught the clap on and not knowing you have it yet you hump your wife as per expected.
When she confronts with the fact you gave her the clap you blame her for giving it to you and she starts to cry and asks you to forgive her.
Mixed emotions is when you get back home after an out of town trip that you caught the clap on and not knowing you have it yet you hump your wife as per expected.
When she confronts with the fact you gave her the clap you blame her for giving it to you and she starts to cry and asks you to forgive her.
A virile old bugger goes to see his quack and find out the results of some tests. The doc says to him, well we've got all these results back from the lab, but they're rather inconclusive. In fact it could be that you've got a dose of the clap or it could be that you test positive for alzheimers. What I want you to do is go home. And if you do manage to remember where home is, whatever you do, do not give the missus a poke.
A joke's a joke. A smoke's a smoke. A poke's a poke. But to talk about it's effing ridiculous.
This one concerns an East-West Airlines "Three", operating the regular run out to Lake Cargellico in central western New South Wales. The skipper was the late Toby Alleyne, and the F/O the late Dick Creak, ("Creaky Dick"). The hostie was Penny Sullivan, and years later I heard Dick's story and I heard Penny's story, and even though I flew with Toby and shared overnights with him, he would not be drawn on the subject.
"The Lake" had grass strips back then, (probably still has), and as Toby swung the old girl into the circuit, Dick, who'd not long before joined the company and was still learning the ropes, asked Tobe if he would demonstrate a short field landing. Now Tobe, if he was anything, was the most laconic man you'd ever be likely to meet. Without a word he drags her back till she's hanging on the props over the fence, pegs her on and with his backside riding up the seat back an inch or two, stands on the brakes and hauls the wheel hard back into his stomach.
The ground was probably a fair bit softer than he thought, but whatever the case, up came the tail and down went the nose, and as Dick said, the earth that was thrown up beat loudly against the cockpit sides. The tail fell back, heavily of course, whereupon Tobe opened the taps and taxied to the shed that passed as a terminal, the props making that curious swishing noise that tells of bent blades.
Penny, on "touchdown", was standing down the back close to the door and right behind the last row of seats on the left side, giving her nose or her lips a little service. The severity of the landing threw her over the seat back and on top of the startled passenger sitting there. Penny extricated herself and doing her best to gather her composure, waited at the door till they pulled up. From up front a glowering Toby emerged, and when Penny asked him all wide-eyed "Wh-what happened Toby?" his only reply, in a hissed whisper was "Shut your face!"
It took them quite a while to get home that day.
"The Lake" had grass strips back then, (probably still has), and as Toby swung the old girl into the circuit, Dick, who'd not long before joined the company and was still learning the ropes, asked Tobe if he would demonstrate a short field landing. Now Tobe, if he was anything, was the most laconic man you'd ever be likely to meet. Without a word he drags her back till she's hanging on the props over the fence, pegs her on and with his backside riding up the seat back an inch or two, stands on the brakes and hauls the wheel hard back into his stomach.
The ground was probably a fair bit softer than he thought, but whatever the case, up came the tail and down went the nose, and as Dick said, the earth that was thrown up beat loudly against the cockpit sides. The tail fell back, heavily of course, whereupon Tobe opened the taps and taxied to the shed that passed as a terminal, the props making that curious swishing noise that tells of bent blades.
Penny, on "touchdown", was standing down the back close to the door and right behind the last row of seats on the left side, giving her nose or her lips a little service. The severity of the landing threw her over the seat back and on top of the startled passenger sitting there. Penny extricated herself and doing her best to gather her composure, waited at the door till they pulled up. From up front a glowering Toby emerged, and when Penny asked him all wide-eyed "Wh-what happened Toby?" his only reply, in a hissed whisper was "Shut your face!"
It took them quite a while to get home that day.
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Saw a Super DC3 in Manila years ago. Looks quite different, larger, think it has the DC4 tail?
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What is the difference between a DC-3 C47 and Super DC-3....
DC-3 (the original design) has the small Pax door. This particular airframe was a C47 but in 1948 Qantas did the mod where they took the door area out and replaced it with the Passenger door.
The C47 doors changed from the passenger door to these during the Second World War.
This was a passenger "airliner" with 28 seats. That's Brian Costello and Vic Pascoe loadin' the dunny with cartons of SP for the last flight to Buin on Bouganville. What a party... and the poor bloody crew couldn't partake because of the early departure.
Wasn't fair! Next morning Kieta (our destination maybe 20 minutes away) had 60 minutes holding (no fuel at Buin) and we didn't have it. The party rocked on till about 2 PM when the holding was lifted
The Super DC-3 has longer wings with squared tips, different tail (but not a DC-4 one they're rounded), bigger engines and wheel fairings for flight.
DC-3 (the original design) has the small Pax door. This particular airframe was a C47 but in 1948 Qantas did the mod where they took the door area out and replaced it with the Passenger door.
The C47 doors changed from the passenger door to these during the Second World War.
This was a passenger "airliner" with 28 seats. That's Brian Costello and Vic Pascoe loadin' the dunny with cartons of SP for the last flight to Buin on Bouganville. What a party... and the poor bloody crew couldn't partake because of the early departure.
Wasn't fair! Next morning Kieta (our destination maybe 20 minutes away) had 60 minutes holding (no fuel at Buin) and we didn't have it. The party rocked on till about 2 PM when the holding was lifted
The Super DC-3 has longer wings with squared tips, different tail (but not a DC-4 one they're rounded), bigger engines and wheel fairings for flight.
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The Super DC-3 (DC-3S) also has the fuselage stretched both fore and aft of the wing. The outer wing is a different airfoil with some leading and trailing edge sweep. Wright 1820's.
It has a post-WWII technology AC and DC electrical system, with some fault tolerance.
The load capacity is increased, as one would expect. The horizontal tail area is roughly doubled.
The fuel capacity is doubled over the DC-3, 1600gal total (the additional tanks in outer wing panels).
Usually has radar.
The tailwheel retracts - that's the good part; the bad part is that in ground handling there is no more pushing the aircraft back and manuevering in restricted parking - tow it forward, or hook up to tailwheel and tow it backwards, with roughly 45deg (i think) tow limits.
Overall, a shame that only 103 were built - and built (remanufactured) from actual C47 airframes, I believe. 100 for the Navy/Marines, 3 for Capitol Airlines.
My parents rode on part of their trip to/from Europe in the 50's a 14 hr. (!) leg one end of which was the Azores (they were Navy officers).
It has a post-WWII technology AC and DC electrical system, with some fault tolerance.
The load capacity is increased, as one would expect. The horizontal tail area is roughly doubled.
The fuel capacity is doubled over the DC-3, 1600gal total (the additional tanks in outer wing panels).
Usually has radar.
The tailwheel retracts - that's the good part; the bad part is that in ground handling there is no more pushing the aircraft back and manuevering in restricted parking - tow it forward, or hook up to tailwheel and tow it backwards, with roughly 45deg (i think) tow limits.
Overall, a shame that only 103 were built - and built (remanufactured) from actual C47 airframes, I believe. 100 for the Navy/Marines, 3 for Capitol Airlines.
My parents rode on part of their trip to/from Europe in the 50's a 14 hr. (!) leg one end of which was the Azores (they were Navy officers).
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The Super DC3 / C117 / R4D-8 was a different animal entirely from a DC3 .
I used to be chief Pilot for a freighter air service that operated four of them and did type ratings on them.
I still have the AFM and the training manuals for them in my collection of "stuff ".
It was a real performer but not as easy to fly as the DC3, especially in a X/wind.
I used to be chief Pilot for a freighter air service that operated four of them and did type ratings on them.
I still have the AFM and the training manuals for them in my collection of "stuff ".
It was a real performer but not as easy to fly as the DC3, especially in a X/wind.
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I flew the Super and was also the Director of maint. on one.
The wing is SHORTER at 90 ft with squared off tips. Additionally the wing is flush riveted. Much smoother.
The cowl flaps are electric.
The oil cooler is faired and is automatically controllled.
Gear wells are faired and have gear doors.
Tail wheel retracts
Flight controls have aerodynamic Boost tabs.
Most Supers had outer wing tanks for a total of 1600 gal. of fuel.
The Super is a transport Catagory aircraft (the 3/47 was a CAR 3 Cert.)
There were a bunch of other differences I'm sure I'll remember more
The one I flew was sold to another company and was crashed and burrned on a street in Miami.
The wing is SHORTER at 90 ft with squared off tips. Additionally the wing is flush riveted. Much smoother.
The cowl flaps are electric.
The oil cooler is faired and is automatically controllled.
Gear wells are faired and have gear doors.
Tail wheel retracts
Flight controls have aerodynamic Boost tabs.
Most Supers had outer wing tanks for a total of 1600 gal. of fuel.
The Super is a transport Catagory aircraft (the 3/47 was a CAR 3 Cert.)
There were a bunch of other differences I'm sure I'll remember more
The one I flew was sold to another company and was crashed and burrned on a street in Miami.
Dose any one know if there is a skerrick of truth in this or is me old mate taking the piss?
An immediate action is reduce the true air speed by descending to a lower altitude and slowing up to near minimum control speed. This may or may not bring back the propeller into its governing range where the prop could be feathered eventually. An interesting prospect if IMC or at night on instruments. In fact I experienced one personally shortly after lift off in a Convair 440 where a broken oil line caused a runaway prop from 2400 to 3200 rpm in six seconds. Fortunately we managed to feather the prop so I guess it was an overspeed rather than a true uncontrollable runaway.
The Stratocruiser pilot was unable to feather it despite reducing speed. The reduction gear surrounding the prop shaft began to glow with heat. The pilot decided to try to get rid of the prop and used a method involving intermittent cutting off the oil supply to the prop by means of the fire wall shut-off handle. This was known as "freezing." Eventually the prop shaft would seize and fling off the propeller.
The problem was the departing prop may hit the adjacent engine and prop. If that happened there could be catastrophic vibration causing the aircraft to shake itself to destruction.
He then thought of an ingenious idea. Obviously this type of scenario was one that was well thought out in his mind from previous knowledge of the dangers of runaway propellers. He first deliberately feathered the propeller of the adjacent engine (port inner) to the runaway prop, then while intermittently "freezing" the oil supply to No 1 he carefully observed its spinning prop. In those days aircraft carried flight engineers so he was obviously involved with the process and CRM and TEM were futuristic terms - you just did your job professionally without all the fancy psycho-babble warm and fuzzy terms of today.
Soon the spinning prop began to wobble on the shaft indicating it was near to flinging off. The prop reduction gear housing now glowed red hot and when he judged the moment right, the pilot gave a huge bunt (or maybe be a huge pull), depending on the direction of rotation of the prop, to impart a severe gyroscopic effect on the windmilling prop.
The prop broke free of its reduction gear and at the same time the pilot banked hard right and the prop flew under the fuselage. He had used gyroscopic effect of the windmilling prop to steer, as it were, the prop in the safest direction; which was under the banking aircraft.
As the prop broke away it clipped one of the feathered prop blades of the adjacent No 2 engine and damaged it. This is exactly what the pilot feared might happen which is why he had earlier feathered that engine as a precaution. This was splendid airmanship at its best. The pilot then was on two engines on one side because the No 2 prop was too seriously damaged to risk starting its engine. The pilot then had no choice but to let the aircraft drift down using the two remaining engines until at 50 feet above the Pacific he was able to fly in ground effect for over 500 miles. As fuel was consumed and the aircraft got lighter he was able to reduce power on the two live engines and even gradually climb to 200 feet above the water. The aircraft landed safely at its destination after several hours across the Pacific on two engines.
I recall this incident was described in one of the early Aviation Safety Digest magazines published by the original Australian Department of Civil Aviation in those days. Incidently those magazines were far more readable in terms of true flight safety stories than the current Flight Safety Australia mag which is mainly advertising copy and very little serious flight safety content. Cost recovery had diminished the quality. A pity.
Last edited by Centaurus; 7th Feb 2009 at 08:27.
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Must have happened after Ernest Gann wrote Fate is the Hunter. Sounds like one he'd claim.
An old bomber pilot I was flying with remarked, "he certainly seems to have had More than his believable share of troubles... more than a couple of pilots...." when I was raving about the book.
I guess you had time to think when you were WAAAY out in the Pacific.
Yes the good old "crash comics"
I still have a wad of 'em and you CAN read and learn from THEM
I loved the one about the Super Connie landing into Nairobe (I think... mislaid that copyin the early seventies... it had a purple cover).
Crew felt a small lurch about ten miles out on the localizer at night.
Engineer called the pilots over when they alighted and showed them ALL the dirt stuck in the undercarriage.
The next day investigators went out to the ten mile point and found the hill top ploughed up in two or three furrows.
The hilltop was lousy with bloody great boulders poking out.
The aircraft had missed many by an awfull small amount. The investigators reckoned it was the only path through the rocks they could have gone and not knocked something off the aircraft.
An old bomber pilot I was flying with remarked, "he certainly seems to have had More than his believable share of troubles... more than a couple of pilots...." when I was raving about the book.
I guess you had time to think when you were WAAAY out in the Pacific.
Yes the good old "crash comics"
I still have a wad of 'em and you CAN read and learn from THEM
I loved the one about the Super Connie landing into Nairobe (I think... mislaid that copyin the early seventies... it had a purple cover).
Crew felt a small lurch about ten miles out on the localizer at night.
Engineer called the pilots over when they alighted and showed them ALL the dirt stuck in the undercarriage.
The next day investigators went out to the ten mile point and found the hill top ploughed up in two or three furrows.
The hilltop was lousy with bloody great boulders poking out.
The aircraft had missed many by an awfull small amount. The investigators reckoned it was the only path through the rocks they could have gone and not knocked something off the aircraft.
Back in the early Fifties however, a Stratocruiser flying to or from Honolulu (I forget which) had a runaway prop on the port outer (No 1). A runaway prop was a deadly serious matter as the drag was enormous and the prop uncontrollable.
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Here's a modified DC 3 I'd like to know more about. I believe Air France had some of these and this survivor is at La Fèrte-Alais, south of Paris. I do not think it is a Super DC3 ... the tailplane is still as per original. Engine cowlings are very different.What engines does it have behind them...?
1962 | 1371 | Flight Archive
1962 | 1376 | Flight Archive
These two pages from FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL tell the story of the French conversion.
1962 | 1376 | Flight Archive
These two pages from FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL tell the story of the French conversion.
Last edited by Fantome; 17th Feb 2009 at 01:38.
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Thanks a million, Fantome .. I couldn't open the links ("page load error" for some reason) but for anyone else interested, the references are from Flight International Archives 9th August 1962 pp 185 & 190, and 29th June 1956 pg 850.
What a superb resource these on-line archives are!
What a superb resource these on-line archives are!