Flying the DC3
Silly Old Git
Two gentlemen I was privileged to know many moons ago in Madang
Barry Rogers and Alan Mossman
Dennis Gray photos
Their faces say it all.....
Barry Rogers and Alan Mossman
Dennis Gray photos
Their faces say it all.....
Last edited by tinpis; 17th Jan 2009 at 01:02.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Those days of real flying are long gone unfortunately.
I could use up most of Pprunes bandwith reminiscing about the old days of flying the DC3, we operated them on every surface imaginable from ice and snow to the sand beaches and eskers in the high Arctic, not to mention mine roads in the mountains in the Yukon..
Remember the good old days flying the Radio Range in the DC3? ..Christ I'm getting old.
I could use up most of Pprunes bandwith reminiscing about the old days of flying the DC3, we operated them on every surface imaginable from ice and snow to the sand beaches and eskers in the high Arctic, not to mention mine roads in the mountains in the Yukon..
Remember the good old days flying the Radio Range in the DC3? ..Christ I'm getting old.
) and Anchorage I purchased "Winging It" by Jack Jefford. A fascinating book.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tasman
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DogCharlieTree
DC, you may wish to comment on the obviously embellished story about the Daru Catalina hull loss! Your friend tried to give the order to abandon ship but had difficulty with the words due to the co-pilots foot on his head as he went out the hatch. Co-pilot was a "larger than life" character who may even still be in QF Ranks. Could all be just a good story!There may not even be a hatch in the Catalina cockpit?
Tinpis, remember BR well. Finished up at 30,000hrs, 20,000 of it on the DC3 not that he ever mentioned it. You had to be quick with that "gear up" call on your sector!
While we are on about yarns, there used to be a great one (true or otherwise) about "Forgie" and a QF DC4 F full of monkeys in the crz around the Gulf of Carpentaria suddenly going very quiet. The two younger lads up the front got it sorted and a couple going again just as Forgie burst in from "controlled rest" and made some adjustments from the Fitch position which certainly made things quiet again!
No disrespect intended, but my "apprenticeship" was done listening to these yarns, learning from them, and usually buying the beer. Was there any substance to them, or was I misinformed.
Tinpis, remember BR well. Finished up at 30,000hrs, 20,000 of it on the DC3 not that he ever mentioned it. You had to be quick with that "gear up" call on your sector!
While we are on about yarns, there used to be a great one (true or otherwise) about "Forgie" and a QF DC4 F full of monkeys in the crz around the Gulf of Carpentaria suddenly going very quiet. The two younger lads up the front got it sorted and a couple going again just as Forgie burst in from "controlled rest" and made some adjustments from the Fitch position which certainly made things quiet again!
No disrespect intended, but my "apprenticeship" was done listening to these yarns, learning from them, and usually buying the beer. Was there any substance to them, or was I misinformed.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Cat has two real big hatches right above the pilots.
You just reach up and unlatch it and slide it back, so the co pilot would not have been able to stand on the captains head......unless he was getting some stick time sitting on the captains lap of course.
You just reach up and unlatch it and slide it back, so the co pilot would not have been able to stand on the captains head......unless he was getting some stick time sitting on the captains lap of course.
Silly Old Git
We were lucky to have worked with/rubbed shoulders with a lot of those luminaries sundaun
Do you recall old Eddy from the Boram tavern? Christ the stories he could tell.
He was at the Jap surrender signing in Wewak and had only been south once to Townsville to demob.
Cant imagine what stories a 20000 hour A320 pilot would entertain me with except where he had stashed his money.
Do you recall old Eddy from the Boram tavern? Christ the stories he could tell.
He was at the Jap surrender signing in Wewak and had only been south once to Townsville to demob.
Cant imagine what stories a 20000 hour A320 pilot would entertain me with except where he had stashed his money.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: tasman
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tru Tok Tinnie
I recall a couple of Eddie's mates, one of which was John Stein, a European Jew who had been interned in Europe in WW2, wanting to visit Eddie at Boram latish one evening. Stein made a living melting down allied, Japanese & Gibbesy's wrecks/ordinance around the area. Stewey Forsyth sold them on the idea of a DC3 charter for 2 people Madang -Wewak and return after closing time, as the DC3s had not all been loaded for next day's Mendi SSB charters. Now we were just getting the hang of this IFR thing, the only night flying most of us had done was stuff for that extinct senior comm thing, so when the call for volunteers came through to the mess, the response was not what Stewey expected. Anyway, he rustled up two adventurers, organised some lights at Wewak, and away they went. Didn't quite make closing, but JS, Eddie & Co were still enjoying each others company days later. A prelude to todays Rock Stars/Netjets/Dream Job you might say. Two drunks in a side-saddle DC3.
Probably as close as I will get to that Dream Job.
While I'm on this WW2 topic, I was in Popondetta in 2004, and sighted the very old Japanese gentleman, living in a village near Girua, who didn't quite make the roll-call, surrender or whatever it was all those years ago. He still has a 'spare dick at the wedding' appearance but has been well looked after all these years.
Probably as close as I will get to that Dream Job.
While I'm on this WW2 topic, I was in Popondetta in 2004, and sighted the very old Japanese gentleman, living in a village near Girua, who didn't quite make the roll-call, surrender or whatever it was all those years ago. He still has a 'spare dick at the wedding' appearance but has been well looked after all these years.
Last edited by sundaun; 18th Jan 2009 at 02:57.
Purists may shout me down but that is a hot looking three! (Could be worse, thems could be Garretts. )
)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Yorkey's Knob
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, the 1830s would be struggling to drag all those additions through the air.
Speaking of which, how do you start the 1830?
After all these years of operation, it seems the start mixture control sequence of the DC3 is a bone of contention.
The traditional technique is after 9 blades, start using prime and then when engine is firing, to move the Mixture lever to Auto Rich.
However, the modern procedure is after 9 blades, to move the Mixture lever to Auto Rich and prime is not usually required.
Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the better method?
Speaking of which, how do you start the 1830?
After all these years of operation, it seems the start mixture control sequence of the DC3 is a bone of contention.
The traditional technique is after 9 blades, start using prime and then when engine is firing, to move the Mixture lever to Auto Rich.
However, the modern procedure is after 9 blades, to move the Mixture lever to Auto Rich and prime is not usually required.
Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the better method?
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the better method?
I do.
But this sure isn't it.
However, the modern procedure is after 9 blades, to move the Mixture lever to Auto Rich and prime is not usually required.
I do.
But this sure isn't it.
However, the modern procedure is after 9 blades, to move the Mixture lever to Auto Rich and prime is not usually required.
Working from memory now, as it's been a few years.
If fitted with electric fuel booster, put it on for the associated engine when ready to go, not before; otherwise F/O starts on the wobble pump as the cranking commences. Crank 9 blades with ignition OFF while giving it a shot ot two of prime, depending on how cold it is. Obviously cold = more prime than warm/hot. While continuing to crank, ignition ON, boost ON and more flicks of the primer until it catches, then mixture to auto-rich. If it stumbles after selecting auto-rich, a few more flicks of the primer.
But I will take advice from those more current.
If fitted with electric fuel booster, put it on for the associated engine when ready to go, not before; otherwise F/O starts on the wobble pump as the cranking commences. Crank 9 blades with ignition OFF while giving it a shot ot two of prime, depending on how cold it is. Obviously cold = more prime than warm/hot. While continuing to crank, ignition ON, boost ON and more flicks of the primer until it catches, then mixture to auto-rich. If it stumbles after selecting auto-rich, a few more flicks of the primer.
But I will take advice from those more current.
I could probably find this by searching the net - but I thought it might be more interesting to ask here... I remember reading years ago some form of explantion... but I cant remember what it was..
Can any DC3 drivers explain to me why the right main gear always came up last when retracted?
Can any DC3 drivers explain to me why the right main gear always came up last when retracted?
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While we are on about yarns, there used to be a great one (true or otherwise) about "Forgie" and a QF DC4 F full of monkeys in the crz around the Gulf of Carpentaria suddenly going very quiet. The two younger lads up the front got it sorted and a couple going again just as Forgie burst in from "controlled rest" and made some adjustments from the Fitch position which certainly made things quiet again
Unless of course there were other incidents involving DC4's and monkeys and double close downs which would seem highly coincidental, then one of the "two younger lads" you referred to was former Flight Lieutenant John B. Thomas AFC. Flt Lt Thomas was a RAAF Dakota captain when he was awarded the Air Force Cross (AFC) for exemplary flying during rescue missions during the Mount Lamington (TPNG) volcano disaster which killed well over a thousand people.
I knew Jack Thomas well as I was his copilot on Lincoln bombers based at Townsville in 1953. He was a superb operator and my understanding is he joined Qantas as a DC4 second officer after his short service commission expired. I have often wondered if he is still alive - if so he would about 86 by now. After the DC4 incident referred to above, I understand he was sacked from Qantas as he was partially blamed for the incident by QF management at the time. For a man with such excellent flying skills demonstrated in the dangerous skies around Mt Lamington and the recipient of the highly regarded AFC, his apparent dismissal by Qantas over the incident brings to mind the expression "scapegoat."
Does any Pprune reader know if Jack Thomas is still around and what the real story was as against myths?
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mach E. Avelli's :-If fitted with electric fuel booster, put it on for the associated engine when ready to go, not before; otherwise F/O starts on the wobble pump as the cranking commences. Crank 9 blades with ignition OFF while giving it a shot ot two of prime, depending on how cold it is. Obviously cold = more prime than warm/hot. While continuing to crank, ignition ON, boost ON and more flicks of the primer until it catches, then mixture to auto-rich. If it stumbles after selecting auto-rich, a few more flicks of the primer.
is right according to the man standing beside me and he started 'em last week.
His other comment is, Every engine is different and has it's little quirks that have most engines needing to be fondled, and with the wobble pump it takes two to start her.
is right according to the man standing beside me and he started 'em last week.
His other comment is, Every engine is different and has it's little quirks that have most engines needing to be fondled, and with the wobble pump it takes two to start her.
Agree with most of Mach E. Avelli's post except that a 3 with a wobble pump can be started by one person if the engines are warm (from memory) by building up pressure with the wobble pump and then starting in the normal manner as described. The second engine is easy - select cross feed and the fuel pressure from the running engine provides the required fuel pressure for starting the second engine. Of course you need the other pilot outside to give assurance that the props are clear for the start!
Blackburn
Blackburn
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
starting the 1830.
Reading all these ways of starting and to be honest they all will work of course. It just comes down to preference. I am a EASA B1 engineer with dc3 type rating. Over the past 15 years I have worked on Daks all over the world including UK,Europe,US and Australia. My claim to fame is doing the taxi and start scenes on the set for speilbergs epic Band of Brothers and working on Bransons dc3s in Florida. Helping the team initially assess the CAT that has just arrived in Aussie when it was in Portugal.
Everyone has a different way...but they all work. My only pet hate was seeing people start them and watch them race upto about 1500+ rpm then to bring back to 1000!! But thats just me with my engineers head on!
I have always counted 3 blades tickle prime, 6 blades tickle prime, 9 blades tickle prime. Once the mags are on and as long as you have set your throttle so that it idles no more than to 800rpm on initial start, it will run on the prime all day untill you want to drop up the mixture!(if carb is set right)
We also had some mesh starters so you had to have mister tickle fingers going on!
...It saddens me that slowly we are running out of pax operated daks, no thanks to EASA EU ops.
Everyone has a different way...but they all work. My only pet hate was seeing people start them and watch them race upto about 1500+ rpm then to bring back to 1000!! But thats just me with my engineers head on!
I have always counted 3 blades tickle prime, 6 blades tickle prime, 9 blades tickle prime. Once the mags are on and as long as you have set your throttle so that it idles no more than to 800rpm on initial start, it will run on the prime all day untill you want to drop up the mixture!(if carb is set right)
We also had some mesh starters so you had to have mister tickle fingers going on!
...It saddens me that slowly we are running out of pax operated daks, no thanks to EASA EU ops.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most 1830's are real easy to start if they are still warm after a shut down.
Before cranking starter turn mags on, Auto Rich, throttle cracked, fuel pump on and engage starter....the engine will just fire right up.
If the engine does not start in the first few blades it is flooded.......mixture idle cut off and throttle full open..engage starter when engine fires close throttle to idle setting....
The 1830 is a marvel but the Wright 1820 is a different animal all together.
Before cranking starter turn mags on, Auto Rich, throttle cracked, fuel pump on and engage starter....the engine will just fire right up.
If the engine does not start in the first few blades it is flooded.......mixture idle cut off and throttle full open..engage starter when engine fires close throttle to idle setting....
The 1830 is a marvel but the Wright 1820 is a different animal all together.