Ingham for CASA approved operators only
Thread Starter
Spike, maybe a know a little about risk management.
The prime advantage in using the radar at lower levels at Ingham is to IFR aircraft in IMC.
The other location you refer to is clearly a problem for VFR aircraft in VMC.
The prime advantage in using the radar at lower levels at Ingham is to IFR aircraft in IMC.
The other location you refer to is clearly a problem for VFR aircraft in VMC.
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So the idea is to install radar that has coverage to the lower levels. That would probably require it be located at Ingham because of the shielding from the obviously close terrain. At what expense? All this for infrequent at best IFR arrivals?
CASAs "approach" to this sounds pretty reasonable and cost effective. If we attempted to follow your lead we would smother the place in radar controlled airspace that the industry can't afford, and force timid VFR pilots (and I am not saying all are scared of controlled airspace) to fly into adverse weather around high terrain.
Dick, I know you are well intentioned and you have a lot of experience compared with a lot of other private pilots. Why not use a little of your energy and resources in educating pilots that controlled airspace is not to be feared.
CASAs "approach" to this sounds pretty reasonable and cost effective. If we attempted to follow your lead we would smother the place in radar controlled airspace that the industry can't afford, and force timid VFR pilots (and I am not saying all are scared of controlled airspace) to fly into adverse weather around high terrain.
Dick, I know you are well intentioned and you have a lot of experience compared with a lot of other private pilots. Why not use a little of your energy and resources in educating pilots that controlled airspace is not to be feared.
So, radar at Ingham would allow all pilots to fly into a risky aerodrome?
The two approaches mentioned here YATN and YIGM are to unlicensed fields which don't get a full notam service
Dr
Thread Starter
No, not install extra radars- just use the existing radar more effectively.
And there is a classification of controlled airspace for IFR when IMC exists which does not overly effect VFR when VMC exists!
But we wouldn't want to have open minds and try that airspace classification below 8500' because we have all decided it won't work in Australia.
And there is a classification of controlled airspace for IFR when IMC exists which does not overly effect VFR when VMC exists!
But we wouldn't want to have open minds and try that airspace classification below 8500' because we have all decided it won't work in Australia.
Arrrrrrr....Fell for IT!!
Dick asks a question he already knows the answer too, in order to bang on about his old agenda.
Dishonest.
Dick, you are supposed to be a Skeptic. You would be aware of the logical fallacy "Argument through Verbosity". Bang on and on about something till the opposition just gives up. You are guilty of this in spades.
If your arguments were persuasive and coherent, making them once would suffice. This insistance on repeating yourself is the sign of someone desperate to MAKE people believe, rather than someone able to PROVE his point!!
Dick asks a question he already knows the answer too, in order to bang on about his old agenda.
Dishonest.
Dick, you are supposed to be a Skeptic. You would be aware of the logical fallacy "Argument through Verbosity". Bang on and on about something till the opposition just gives up. You are guilty of this in spades.
If your arguments were persuasive and coherent, making them once would suffice. This insistance on repeating yourself is the sign of someone desperate to MAKE people believe, rather than someone able to PROVE his point!!
OK, I get it now, the YATN is now published and no longer "top secret"! I'll apply for approval to use it and see what happens!
Would seem a lot more betterer than flying half the YMBA RNAV Appr every time I go to YATN.
Its OK Dick, I don't need radar surveillance to watch over me during the approach - I got terrain avoidance on the G430W, and "Helga the talking co-pilot cigarette lighter" will say "Terrain" in that sexy Swedish voice of hers if I look like getting too close to anything.
Would be really nice to be able to talk to CS Appr in the circuit though! I know that's a lot to ask, but hell, its only 26 nm from Cairns!
Dr
Would seem a lot more betterer than flying half the YMBA RNAV Appr every time I go to YATN.
Its OK Dick, I don't need radar surveillance to watch over me during the approach - I got terrain avoidance on the G430W, and "Helga the talking co-pilot cigarette lighter" will say "Terrain" in that sexy Swedish voice of hers if I look like getting too close to anything.
Would be really nice to be able to talk to CS Appr in the circuit though! I know that's a lot to ask, but hell, its only 26 nm from Cairns!
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 22nd Nov 2008 at 09:19.
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Another interesting one is Wyndham (YWYM) which required CASA Darwin approved operator procedures for Night Ops. Note that that is not just for NVFR ops, it also includes IFR (although it's only mentioned in ERSA and not on the plates). Not that difficult really, just a bit abnormal due to terrain.
FRQ CB
PS WYM has got the worst katabatic cross wind almost every night, great fun!
FRQ CB
PS WYM has got the worst katabatic cross wind almost every night, great fun!
Would be really nice to be able to talk to CS Appr in the circuit though! I know that's a lot to ask, but hell, its only 26 nm from Cairns!
- Approach can see your transponder in the circuit from the Hann Tableland radar (NW of BIB) so any problems it's Brissy centre on 124.6 or squawk 7600.Good luck on the CASA approval.
OK, I get it now, the YATN is now published and no longer "top secret"! I'll apply for approval to use it and see what happens!
True to my word, I enquired of CASA as to how I might go about getting approval to use this approach. Below is the reply I (eventually!) received.
In answer to your enquiry regarding the Atherton RNAV(GNSS) approach. This approach is an Helicopter only approach for approved operators only. A local Helo operator has been given special approval to continue to use this approach. This approach can not be used for fixed wing aircraft as the aerodrome is unregistered; a fixed -wing straight -in approach can not be issued to an unregistered aerodrome.You may want to approach the Shire Council to have the aerodrome registered.
Dr
"Please explain"!
Perhaps someone can explain to me why it is apparently OK for a chopper to fly an instrument approach to an unlicenced aerodrome, but not a fixed wing aircraft?
The approach looks straight forward to me, and the Bonanza can easily operate into and out of that aerodrome.
A straight-in RNAV approach onto the ATN runway has to be safer than flying part of the Mareeba RNAV approach and then breaking off to grope your way to ATN.
Dr
The approach looks straight forward to me, and the Bonanza can easily operate into and out of that aerodrome.
A straight-in RNAV approach onto the ATN runway has to be safer than flying part of the Mareeba RNAV approach and then breaking off to grope your way to ATN.
Dr
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DrK
The intent of the YATN RNAV is for QR to obtain vis crit. for a visual segment into Atherton Hosp at night. Ops manual has an extensive supplement describing visual lead-points, procedures, etc, which permits the use of the approach. At no time was landing at the airfield seriously considered, it's a referance only for the approach due to the high terrain at Atherton. An RNAV to the hospital HLS would require an unuseable MDA.
Lobby to get the airfield upgraded and licensed, and you may get general use apporoval - but I doubt it. IMHO the MDA appears to be too close to the TH for safe FW ops at night, but mind you I'm just a rotor-head.
Same deal Dick, lobby to get YIGM upgraded and licensed and you'll probably get approval. The RNAV approach and RWY are fine.
SNID
The intent of the YATN RNAV is for QR to obtain vis crit. for a visual segment into Atherton Hosp at night. Ops manual has an extensive supplement describing visual lead-points, procedures, etc, which permits the use of the approach. At no time was landing at the airfield seriously considered, it's a referance only for the approach due to the high terrain at Atherton. An RNAV to the hospital HLS would require an unuseable MDA.
Lobby to get the airfield upgraded and licensed, and you may get general use apporoval - but I doubt it. IMHO the MDA appears to be too close to the TH for safe FW ops at night, but mind you I'm just a rotor-head.
Same deal Dick, lobby to get YIGM upgraded and licensed and you'll probably get approval. The RNAV approach and RWY are fine.
SNID
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Disturbing!
This is a disturbing trend. Are we extending the "CASA must be satisfied" procedure, or are there definite, justifiable rules for all?
If the approaches are for certain categories of aircraft, or aircraft with certain performance then this should be stated.
Do companies "own" certain approaches? If so then this is really opening a can of worms.
CASA must jealously guard it's own credibility in order to protect the percieved credibility of the approaches.
If the approaches are for certain categories of aircraft, or aircraft with certain performance then this should be stated.
Do companies "own" certain approaches? If so then this is really opening a can of worms.
CASA must jealously guard it's own credibility in order to protect the percieved credibility of the approaches.
Last edited by bushy; 19th Dec 2008 at 04:14.
IMHO the MDA appears to be too close to the TH for safe FW ops at night, but mind you I'm just a rotor-head
None-the-less, this is a big load of bureaucratic codswhallop! The approach plate says that you require CASA approval to use the approach and I want approval.
1) I don't see why the aerodrome needs to be licenced for me to get approval to use the approach as I land on the frigging thing anyway after flying the Mareeba RNAV approach.
2) Night is not an issue - cause there are no frigging lights anyway.
3) Its a private operation in an aeroplane that can easily fly the frigging approach and land comfortably on the frigging runway.
I am not looking to run RPT into the frigging place!
What I want is:
"The Dr, as Chief Pilot of Forkair, is hereby authorised to fly the YATN RNAV Approach in the Forktailed Dr Killer aircraft only, in the hours between first light and last light only"
Looks like an arse covering exercise to me! When I smack into the hills between Mareeba and Atherton, I guess someone can say, "Lucky we didn't let that f*cker fly the Atherton RNAV approach, the silly bastard might have killed himself"!
Dr
PS: What if I promise to fly the YATN RNAV Appr, and if visual at the MAP downgrade to VFR before I land?
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Licencing aerodrome
FTDK,
The licensing of the aerodrome brings in a requirement to monitor the approaches ( used to be annually ) to ensure no one had built a comms tower or something smack in the middle of the approach and some degree of accurate initial reporting of the aerodrome location to surveying standards.
Want to talk about high precision approaches etc????
Who's going to be the first person to try the Lithgow approach in a fixed wing??????? hope it's a maule or super cub.
The Eye
The licensing of the aerodrome brings in a requirement to monitor the approaches ( used to be annually ) to ensure no one had built a comms tower or something smack in the middle of the approach and some degree of accurate initial reporting of the aerodrome location to surveying standards.
Want to talk about high precision approaches etc????
Who's going to be the first person to try the Lithgow approach in a fixed wing??????? hope it's a maule or super cub.
The Eye
The licensing of the aerodrome brings in a requirement to monitor the approaches ( used to be annually ) to ensure no one had built a comms tower or something smack in the middle of the approach and some degree of accurate initial reporting of the aerodrome location to surveying standards
Who's going to be the first person to try the Lithgow approach in a fixed wing???????
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 18th Dec 2008 at 08:39.
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rnp approaches for GA
FTDK
just watch the speed and sink rate some of the helo approaches are a bit steep.
It would be good to see some of the RNP approaches avbl to GA. Have a look at the Naverus web site
" what's that goat doing up here in the clouds'
just watch the speed and sink rate some of the helo approaches are a bit steep.
It would be good to see some of the RNP approaches avbl to GA. Have a look at the Naverus web site
" what's that goat doing up here in the clouds'
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DrK
You are an angry man. Fill your boots, I don't care what you do. But you have missed the point, you can rant till your blue in the face - CASA don't care. The approach was paid for by a QLD govt operator for night EMS operations - full stop. Either follow the rules for VFR into the strip or get the funds together for an upgrade.
You FW lot are a strange bunch.
You are an angry man. Fill your boots, I don't care what you do. But you have missed the point, you can rant till your blue in the face - CASA don't care. The approach was paid for by a QLD govt operator for night EMS operations - full stop. Either follow the rules for VFR into the strip or get the funds together for an upgrade.
You FW lot are a strange bunch.
DrK You are an angry man
It is completely idiotic! The approach is a standard GPS RNAV Approach - alinged with the YATN aerodrome, NOT the Atherton Hospital like many others.
As you will know if you have any familiarity with the area, when flying into Atherton from the south, once you get north of Mareeba you are in VMC 95% of the time - you just have to fly back under the inevitable overcast covering Atherton.
CASA don't care
Dr