Rex pilot shortage under control ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nice post Kangaroo Court .... I do apologise, it was a typo. Please accept my most humble and sincere thanks for pointing out this error to me... TOSSER!
I will correct it now.
I will correct it now.
Quote:
"You're lucky to have a flying job" Any employer in times of pilot surplus
"Which would you rather be doing ?" Employers response when comparing your wages to truck driver/baggage loader/refueler etc.
Good post Metro man. I've quoted your last 2 remarks because I have personally heard the cheif pilot of REX say exactly that!
Sort of says it all doesn't it.
apache:
Naughty boy....proof read, proof read, prooof read!!!
"You're lucky to have a flying job" Any employer in times of pilot surplus
"Which would you rather be doing ?" Employers response when comparing your wages to truck driver/baggage loader/refueler etc.
Good post Metro man. I've quoted your last 2 remarks because I have personally heard the cheif pilot of REX say exactly that!
Sort of says it all doesn't it.
apache:
Naughty boy....proof read, proof read, prooof read!!!
It all depends Centurion'
If it was for the Cadetship, I'd say yes. If it was for direct entry, and you do not have, or are not close to the min Multi for command, then I would say yes.
If you do have, or are very close to the min requirements for command, then I would say give it your best shot. REX are going to need more upgradeble F/O's in the near future. A lot more. Promotion is running at approx 7 months, where at one stage not too long ago it was around 6-7 years!
If you read these threads carefully you will see a common theme. Flying for REX is in itself a rewarding and often challenging job. And therein lies the problem. For REX to be free of it's serious crewing issues the job needs to become a career in it's own right. LKH and his cronies say they cannot compete with the major airlines on the open pilot labour market. Bullsh!t! They choose not to compete because they are under the deluded opinion that this shortage of pilots will somehow turn around as quickly as it started. Well here's the news. This "shortage" has been coming for 10 years, and unless the airline operators (DJ, VA, and Jetstar included) start paying pilots what they are really worth, then this whole phenomenon will be with us untill they do!
If it was for the Cadetship, I'd say yes. If it was for direct entry, and you do not have, or are not close to the min Multi for command, then I would say yes.
If you do have, or are very close to the min requirements for command, then I would say give it your best shot. REX are going to need more upgradeble F/O's in the near future. A lot more. Promotion is running at approx 7 months, where at one stage not too long ago it was around 6-7 years!
If you read these threads carefully you will see a common theme. Flying for REX is in itself a rewarding and often challenging job. And therein lies the problem. For REX to be free of it's serious crewing issues the job needs to become a career in it's own right. LKH and his cronies say they cannot compete with the major airlines on the open pilot labour market. Bullsh!t! They choose not to compete because they are under the deluded opinion that this shortage of pilots will somehow turn around as quickly as it started. Well here's the news. This "shortage" has been coming for 10 years, and unless the airline operators (DJ, VA, and Jetstar included) start paying pilots what they are really worth, then this whole phenomenon will be with us untill they do!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: No-Where man
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just make it a stepping stone, thats what they expect......they wont pay more $$
Yep,
with a long overdue EBA; no obvious sign of common sense in upper management, no regard to cost of living expenses and common sense to see that most pilots at Rex would stay for a very long time if the base salaries were $15 - 20k higher given the restrictive lifestyles we lead and our responsibilities, fair go.........only one piece of advice.......
IF AN EMPLOYER AINT WILLING TO PAY YOU WHAT YOUR WORTH THEN THEY DON'T RESPECT YOU AND THE DECISION IS EASY....... THEY ARE QUITE HAPPY TO HAVE REX A STEPPING STONE..... SO HEY MAKE LKH AND UPPER MANAGEMENT THINK THERE RIGHT......GIVE THEM ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG THEMSELVES AND LEAVE ONCE YOU HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OR A BETTER OFFER................. how can you have a family and a mortgage on a Rex wage in Sydney....... bah humbug, maybe the spirit of Christmas will bring LKH to his knees in a dream???
with a long overdue EBA; no obvious sign of common sense in upper management, no regard to cost of living expenses and common sense to see that most pilots at Rex would stay for a very long time if the base salaries were $15 - 20k higher given the restrictive lifestyles we lead and our responsibilities, fair go.........only one piece of advice.......
IF AN EMPLOYER AINT WILLING TO PAY YOU WHAT YOUR WORTH THEN THEY DON'T RESPECT YOU AND THE DECISION IS EASY....... THEY ARE QUITE HAPPY TO HAVE REX A STEPPING STONE..... SO HEY MAKE LKH AND UPPER MANAGEMENT THINK THERE RIGHT......GIVE THEM ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG THEMSELVES AND LEAVE ONCE YOU HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OR A BETTER OFFER................. how can you have a family and a mortgage on a Rex wage in Sydney....... bah humbug, maybe the spirit of Christmas will bring LKH to his knees in a dream???
Last edited by lil_blueberry; 1st Sep 2008 at 08:03.
How's this for an idea?
More than a year ago the REXPC did some number crunching on the movement of pilots, and the numbers didn't add up. They approached the Chief pilot with what they believed would be a loss of at least half the pilot group over the next 12 months. The Chief pilot was quite dismissive and whilst acknowledgeing the problem (off the record at that stage) believed the loss closer to 20%. So much for the Chief pilot's grasp of the situation.
During subsequent meetings the REXPC proposed to stem the expected flow by what in reality was the only solution. 40% payrise! This would have bestowed a rise for Captains of approx $30K P/A and for F/O's $18K P/A. The costings were passed on to management and were acknowledged as being correct for the amount of money required. Based upon 1.2 million pax per annum at the time, the cost came in at $6.25 per ticket!
Some excuses for not proceeding were,
How's this for an idea.
During subsequent meetings the REXPC proposed to stem the expected flow by what in reality was the only solution. 40% payrise! This would have bestowed a rise for Captains of approx $30K P/A and for F/O's $18K P/A. The costings were passed on to management and were acknowledged as being correct for the amount of money required. Based upon 1.2 million pax per annum at the time, the cost came in at $6.25 per ticket!
Some excuses for not proceeding were,
- We'll lose market share. Yeah right! REX has competitors on only 5 of it's 48 routes. Keep the ticket price the same on those and make the levy $7.00 on the rest. Not exactly rocket science.
- Pilots will leave regardless. Some will, many wont. Even at this early stage the REXPC could see that the loss of experienced Captains and upgradeble F/O's would be the problem. One senior REX manager famously remarked "Experience is overrated". We can only pray that little statement doesn't come back to haunt. It was therefore suggested that rather than diluteing the rise by an increase in fortnightly salary, that it be made as an ongoing yearly retention bonus. Stay the full year, you get the lot. Leave after 364 days, you get nothing. If pilots do leave, then the company keeps the money! Win, Win. Sh!t! this thing sells itself!
- Passengers will not tolerate an increase in fares. They will drive or take the bus! Yes and my Mum still believes in the Tooth Fairy! Rex hedge virtually all the cost of fuel by way of a ticket levy (around $44) and that's per sector! This levy was introduced without fanfare and without hesitation. Guess what, more people are flying with REX than ever before. approx 1.5 Million last year.
How's this for an idea.
- $10 per sector per pax.
- Bonus to be paid proportionally to REX pilots on the completion of each full years service
- How much will this bestow? Approx $50K for Captains, $30K for F/O's
- Crewing problems solved for life!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 1st Sep 2008 at 22:05.
And thats just the beginning of round 2 Muff'.
The circumstances leading to last year's attrition were seen coming by all except REX management. As I have said before it could have been reduced significantly. Now we are seeing the light on the front of the train again. What will they do this time? Well, if they follow the REX game plan, they will simply place their heads back up their collective a#ses and blame everyone except themselves!
The problem is, this time it will have a significant impact on the bottom line. The major airlines once again will be hungry for suitable candidates, only now they just aint' out there. Round 1 saw to that.
Get ready for serious pain REX. It's not like we didn't warn you!
The circumstances leading to last year's attrition were seen coming by all except REX management. As I have said before it could have been reduced significantly. Now we are seeing the light on the front of the train again. What will they do this time? Well, if they follow the REX game plan, they will simply place their heads back up their collective a#ses and blame everyone except themselves!
The problem is, this time it will have a significant impact on the bottom line. The major airlines once again will be hungry for suitable candidates, only now they just aint' out there. Round 1 saw to that.
Get ready for serious pain REX. It's not like we didn't warn you!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Didn't REX make a $10 million profit last year? You can't make that sort of money without pilots, well not in an airline anyway.
Apache, loved your response re-spelling, piss funny.
Apache, loved your response re-spelling, piss funny.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Freedom At Last
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time's up....Round 2 on the way
Lil' Blueberry,
You are spot on.
Quite a few of us were 'happy' to stay for a while longer (only a short while longer) to see if management will agree on an equitable EBA, recognising the professionalism expected from us.....BUT, after what LKH said last week, the morale has dropped through the floor and many, I mean MANY, are now actively looking to move ASAP and using the meagre REX salary to fund our job search.
The spike in oil actually gave REX some reprieve to get their act together, instead, nothing has been done to keep experience over the last few months and now, VB,Jet* and the likes will have a larger pool of experienced pilots in line.
The flying is pure enjoyment and the people at the coalface are fantastic to work with.......but it is sad to see what it has come to, and how much more worse it is going to be.
You are spot on.
Quite a few of us were 'happy' to stay for a while longer (only a short while longer) to see if management will agree on an equitable EBA, recognising the professionalism expected from us.....BUT, after what LKH said last week, the morale has dropped through the floor and many, I mean MANY, are now actively looking to move ASAP and using the meagre REX salary to fund our job search.
The spike in oil actually gave REX some reprieve to get their act together, instead, nothing has been done to keep experience over the last few months and now, VB,Jet* and the likes will have a larger pool of experienced pilots in line.
The flying is pure enjoyment and the people at the coalface are fantastic to work with.......but it is sad to see what it has come to, and how much more worse it is going to be.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suppose the worst thing is that management DO read these forums. I guess they just dismiss them as pilot bitching, at their peril.
The point that IS being made over and over, is that the job has changed. There is now NO lifestyle which is attached to very poor money, comparatively. Respect to the pilot group is out the window, and the AFAP is sitting on their fat a$ses collecting union fees from seriously underpaid members.
When a 10+ yr captain can LEAVE REX, and take up a Direct Entry Captaincy on a DHC-8 across the road, on the SAME(or better) money, yet expect incremental and inflationary pay rises for the next ten years, with better staff travel allowances and ground support,to do essentially the same job.... who is going to stay ?When a junior pilot can leave to a LCC jet job, fork out $40K and STILL be better off financially after year one... who is going to stay?
unfortunately, when one "peaks" at REX, there is a LONG way to go to the glass ceiling... even in regional airlines!
****this post has been checked for spelling mistakes, typos, grammatical boo-boos, and content ****
The point that IS being made over and over, is that the job has changed. There is now NO lifestyle which is attached to very poor money, comparatively. Respect to the pilot group is out the window, and the AFAP is sitting on their fat a$ses collecting union fees from seriously underpaid members.
When a 10+ yr captain can LEAVE REX, and take up a Direct Entry Captaincy on a DHC-8 across the road, on the SAME(or better) money, yet expect incremental and inflationary pay rises for the next ten years, with better staff travel allowances and ground support,to do essentially the same job.... who is going to stay ?When a junior pilot can leave to a LCC jet job, fork out $40K and STILL be better off financially after year one... who is going to stay?
unfortunately, when one "peaks" at REX, there is a LONG way to go to the glass ceiling... even in regional airlines!
****this post has been checked for spelling mistakes, typos, grammatical boo-boos, and content ****
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apache, you need to go back to school! How can anyone take a pilot seriously who puts the space in the wrong place after "SAME(.." and then does the same after "stay" and missed a space between "support, to". Just not good enough for the high Proon standards. Go to the back of the line until you get it write!
KRUSTY 34 wrote:
My bold.
The barrel itself isn't completely empty of talent Krusty - there are plenty of high time twin piston and multi crew turboprop drivers in their thirties and early forties that would jump at an opportunity like Rex - if only Rex would reach deeper into their pockets for improved T&C's while they are new to the company as an F/O and offer a decent path over the next 20+ years to retirement. That is about all it would take and I would personally call Sandy and fire that application up again after declining two offers of interviews).
They might also be a little more attractive to many if they had a few more east coast options for basing and home most nights..... should you catch my drift - many of us would rather leave the industry or stay in our present position than work in Sydney, s#!tloads of overnights (unless we were chasing allowances) etc.....
Those of us in that position know that from what we read and hear that something like that will never happen, so around the wheel goes for Rex again.
Apache.... everyone "luvs yer mate".... especially that "chick" from your waaaaay distant past in Boulia that night you mentioned while sitting in the General R W Bourke that evening almost 10 years ago....
Regards,
OpsN.
if pilot attrition does not fall to 20%. Jesus! You think so! What we all know is that the barrel is now empty.
The barrel itself isn't completely empty of talent Krusty - there are plenty of high time twin piston and multi crew turboprop drivers in their thirties and early forties that would jump at an opportunity like Rex - if only Rex would reach deeper into their pockets for improved T&C's while they are new to the company as an F/O and offer a decent path over the next 20+ years to retirement. That is about all it would take and I would personally call Sandy and fire that application up again after declining two offers of interviews).
They might also be a little more attractive to many if they had a few more east coast options for basing and home most nights..... should you catch my drift - many of us would rather leave the industry or stay in our present position than work in Sydney, s#!tloads of overnights (unless we were chasing allowances) etc.....
Those of us in that position know that from what we read and hear that something like that will never happen, so around the wheel goes for Rex again.
Apache.... everyone "luvs yer mate".... especially that "chick" from your waaaaay distant past in Boulia that night you mentioned while sitting in the General R W Bourke that evening almost 10 years ago....
Regards,
OpsN.
I have to admit, I was in a similar state of "tune" that evening.... 
Spending the odd evening in Boulia up until a couple of years ago there was rumour of a certain pilot who had gone before and left his mark on one of the locals who was quite smitten....
Spending the odd evening in Boulia up until a couple of years ago there was rumour of a certain pilot who had gone before and left his mark on one of the locals who was quite smitten....
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Boy what a mess.
Its all about money now, acording to LKH. If we pay the pilots more, we go broke. And all the pilots want is more money.
How simplistic can you get? I would have stayed if the conditions were better. But by the time I left it was almost like a war. They were trying to get the most flying hours out of me by what ever means and I was trying to get out of it.
And is it true that managment are now just striking off one full weeks annual leave because of the pilot shortage? Doesn't that need consultation???
Its all about money now, acording to LKH. If we pay the pilots more, we go broke. And all the pilots want is more money.
How simplistic can you get? I would have stayed if the conditions were better. But by the time I left it was almost like a war. They were trying to get the most flying hours out of me by what ever means and I was trying to get out of it.
And is it true that managment are now just striking off one full weeks annual leave because of the pilot shortage? Doesn't that need consultation???
OpsNormal.
Hear ya loud and clear mate. However we are both right. The barrel is empty, but with respect to upgradeble candidates willing to work their arses off for the crap money. The youngun's well short of the required hours will still put their hands up (although even they are becoming difficult to find), but they won't save REX, as we all know.
To attract, and hold onto, the sort of people that REX need will require decisive action along the lines of my post #26. Anything less and they are simply hoping for a miracle.
Mind you it would take a miracle in itself for REX management to see the reality of the situation. My fear all along is they will only act after it is too late.
Hear ya loud and clear mate. However we are both right. The barrel is empty, but with respect to upgradeble candidates willing to work their arses off for the crap money. The youngun's well short of the required hours will still put their hands up (although even they are becoming difficult to find), but they won't save REX, as we all know.
To attract, and hold onto, the sort of people that REX need will require decisive action along the lines of my post #26. Anything less and they are simply hoping for a miracle.
Mind you it would take a miracle in itself for REX management to see the reality of the situation. My fear all along is they will only act after it is too late.