Pilots with history of recreational drug use.Do I stand a chance?
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Sunfish
That TV program on 9 of late.....the one you Victorians are not allowed to see. Thats what we want to have for our kids hey?
We should all as a population say enough.......and turn the tables on drug dealers, importers and manufacturers.
Get caught with any more than a very small amount (the victims Vs the dealres).....no questions asked, bullet between the eyes! Arrested, court the next morning, pine box that afternoon.
We do not take this problem seriously enough and deal with them hasrhly enough.
Get tough and watch a fair number stop overnight. And those that don't, the above method of criminal cleansing might just work!
Just in case you are wondering, I had to or was asked to help someone in a situation like you describe, and lucky for the dealers I never found out who they were. Also, I have never been offered any type of drugs in 40 years........maybe I am unique.
J
That TV program on 9 of late.....the one you Victorians are not allowed to see. Thats what we want to have for our kids hey?
We should all as a population say enough.......and turn the tables on drug dealers, importers and manufacturers.
Get caught with any more than a very small amount (the victims Vs the dealres).....no questions asked, bullet between the eyes! Arrested, court the next morning, pine box that afternoon.
We do not take this problem seriously enough and deal with them hasrhly enough.
Get tough and watch a fair number stop overnight. And those that don't, the above method of criminal cleansing might just work!
Just in case you are wondering, I had to or was asked to help someone in a situation like you describe, and lucky for the dealers I never found out who they were. Also, I have never been offered any type of drugs in 40 years........maybe I am unique.
J
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Although Sunfish may have been a little stong with some comments, I understand his logic. Having worked or been involved in a number of industries before aviation (including sales, IT, retail, education & 'blue collar') the recreational usage of drugs is very, very widespread. Drug users are not the junkies most of you are making them out to be - I challenge you to spot the users next time you are at the shops or even the airport. Don't assume they are the baggage handlers.
The only difference between aviation and other industries is we don't talk about it. Why would a crew member offer to go halves with other members of staff in a hit of [nominate drug here]? Why would a charter pilot boast to his mates on a Monday about what he took on the weekend and the resulting 8 hour orgy that followed? You would have no job very quickly.
I don't support drug use, nor have I personally used any, but be very careful about stereotypes.
I look forward to the upcoming introduction of drug testing. I thought it was to begin in April, has this been changed?
The only difference between aviation and other industries is we don't talk about it. Why would a crew member offer to go halves with other members of staff in a hit of [nominate drug here]? Why would a charter pilot boast to his mates on a Monday about what he took on the weekend and the resulting 8 hour orgy that followed? You would have no job very quickly.
I don't support drug use, nor have I personally used any, but be very careful about stereotypes.
I look forward to the upcoming introduction of drug testing. I thought it was to begin in April, has this been changed?
NAs18:
Of course I'm not inferring that Atlas may not pass. However draw your own conclusions about the entire aviation workforce from the quote below:
http://www.spinneypress.com.au/194_book_desc.html
Now you are being libellous. My experience of the drug trade is as parent dealing with my teenagers drug usage in extremely difficult, expensive, heartbreaking and at times dangerous conditions. For all you and I fecking know, there are pilots reading this thread who are experiencing the same problems with their kids right now, and your ill advised and ignorant comments, and draconian prescriptions must be a source of great pain to them.
On the balance of probability, there will also be dozens of other student pilots and apprentices in exactly the same boat as Cetnik - having done something that has the potential to affect their careers. Now that is not libelling student pilots or anyone else, that is merely a statement of probability.
I'm not accusing you in particular of using drugs, I merely refer you to the statistics. Draw your own conclusions. Do you think the aviation workforce is especially special? Not that it would worry me anyway if it wasn't.
I'm confused by this.
You and a couple of others do your best to dissuade someone who has admitted the error of their ways from even thinking about joining your profession, at the same time slanging off at drug users, which is strange since , by your own admission, you know nothing about drug use.
My advice to you is this. There is this thing called Karma. Do you have kids? Jaba, Atlas and Nas? Do you have friends and relatives, wives and girlfriends? Would you like to see them carted off to jail or thrown out of their profession for drug use? Or would you like to regard it as a regrettable but treatable medical condition like alcoholism?
Please explain, I'm all ears.
So are you inferring that there is a chance Atlas may not pass? "Let's hope"???
Illicit Drugs
Volume 194, Issues in Society
Based on the most recent national survey, almost 40% of the Australian population aged 14 years and over has used an illicit or illegal drug at least once in their life and nearly 17% has used at least once in the previous 12 months.
Volume 194, Issues in Society
Based on the most recent national survey, almost 40% of the Australian population aged 14 years and over has used an illicit or illegal drug at least once in their life and nearly 17% has used at least once in the previous 12 months.
YOUR attitude is out of touch Sunfish. Not everyone resorts to drugs. Are you trying to justify your own drug use through attempting to accuse every person as having experimented at least once?
On the balance of probability, there will also be dozens of other student pilots and apprentices in exactly the same boat as Cetnik - having done something that has the potential to affect their careers. Now that is not libelling student pilots or anyone else, that is merely a statement of probability.
You can accuse me, (through accusing everyone), of trying some illicit substance at least once however, I KNOW that I have never ever tried ANY illicit drug. I know this and that's all that matters. Plenty of other viewers of these threads are in the same boat.
But if accusing everyone of trying drugs keeps you happy in your own little world, so be it.
Oh and I probably know as much about behavioral science as you. Take that however you please.
Oh and I probably know as much about behavioral science as you. Take that however you please.
You and a couple of others do your best to dissuade someone who has admitted the error of their ways from even thinking about joining your profession, at the same time slanging off at drug users, which is strange since , by your own admission, you know nothing about drug use.
My advice to you is this. There is this thing called Karma. Do you have kids? Jaba, Atlas and Nas? Do you have friends and relatives, wives and girlfriends? Would you like to see them carted off to jail or thrown out of their profession for drug use? Or would you like to regard it as a regrettable but treatable medical condition like alcoholism?
Please explain, I'm all ears.
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I agree, nobody with a history of drug use should be given a position of responsibility. Just look at how much better the drink-driver president of the USA is than that pothead Clinton.
A bit of perspective may be good, I don't agree that all teenagers have tried drugs, I certainly didn't, but I have enough friends who did that are working in more important jobs than most of the wowsers here would like to know.
I'm sure nearly everyone on here has displayed some risk taking behavior that they would prefer their employer didn't know about, it just seems that drugs have a far greater stigma attached.
People make errors of judgment, it's a shame so many here are so quick to condemn rather than point them in the right direction. Most posts here are basically encouraging the originator of the thread to give up any hope of a good job, become a junkie and go round knocking over old women for there purses. Good solution.
A bit of perspective may be good, I don't agree that all teenagers have tried drugs, I certainly didn't, but I have enough friends who did that are working in more important jobs than most of the wowsers here would like to know.
I'm sure nearly everyone on here has displayed some risk taking behavior that they would prefer their employer didn't know about, it just seems that drugs have a far greater stigma attached.
People make errors of judgment, it's a shame so many here are so quick to condemn rather than point them in the right direction. Most posts here are basically encouraging the originator of the thread to give up any hope of a good job, become a junkie and go round knocking over old women for there purses. Good solution.
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Illicit Drugs Volume 194, Issues in Society Based on the most recent national survey, almost 40% of the Australian population aged 14 years and over has used an illicit or illegal drug at least once in their life and nearly 17% has used at least once in the previous 12 months.
Now you are being libellous
Do you have friends and relatives, wives and girlfriends? Would you like to see them carted off to jail or thrown out of their profession for drug use?
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CETNIK , If you have no ability for maths you are wasting your time,perhaps JAT would give you a go,get your parents to buy you a one way ticket back to SERBIA i hear the standards are pretty low in that country
Do you have kids? Jaba, Atlas and Nas? Do you have friends and relatives, wives and girlfriends? Would you like to see them carted off to jail or thrown out of their profession for drug use? Or would you like to regard it as a regrettable but treatable medical condition like alcoholism?
Let me tell you one thing, no I wouldn't like to see any of them carted off to jail, but as hard as it might be for me to do, I will be the one taking them there. They know this.
No one in our home uses illegal drugs. No one that comes into our home brings illegal drugs. I do not have within my circle of friends and aquaintences, those that choose to use illegal or recreational drugs. If I catch anyone with illegal drugs in our house, I WILL ring the Police. I will not ask any questions of them, nor will I accept any explanations or excuses. If I find any illegal drugs in our house, I will ring the Police. If either of my boys use or bring illegal drugs into our house I will grab them by the scruff of the neck and take them to the nearest Police station.
Whether my approach is right or wrong, that is not for you to decide or even pass comment on. It is my way, in MY house and my rules. Period.
My father is exactly the same, only he would have smacked me half way into next week first! and probably long after as well, and I would have deserved it.
I smoke Winfield Blues and I drink Beck's Beer, coffee and the occasional Grange, however, apart from a shoulder operation, following which I was prescribed prescription pain killers (I cannot even remember what they were called - it was in 1974 I think) I have NEVER taken any other drug or form of drug, nor have I been forced to or prescribed. In fact, I have never been offered any. Not even an aspirin or panadol.
Not that I have to justify myself to you or anyone else that I don't know on a public forum, it just makes me cringe somewhat when i read unsubstantiated generalised bull****, I say again, unsubstantiated generalised bull****.
Any one who uses illegal drugs (or any other form of drugs for that matter) DOES SO ENTIRELY BY THEIR OWN CHOICE. Do not proceed to tell me otherwise.
I have now finished with this subject.
NAS:
Atlas:
Both of these posts demonstrate conclusively that you don't understand what you are talking about.
Please PM me if you want further information about why this is a bad idea.
I pray for both of you that you don't have to learn the error of your ways personally.
Sunfish, it is due to people with a soft approach such as yours, that younger people believe it is ok to experiment in the first place. Your above statement would be invalid should we choose to take a hard approach to drugs. Send out a message that if you use drugs, kiss goodbye to your career. Penalties should be heavy and should be enforced. Discourage people from trying in the first place.
Any one who uses illegal drugs (or any other form of drugs for that matter) DOES SO ENTIRELY BY THEIR OWN CHOICE. Do not proceed to tell me otherwise.
No one in our home uses illegal drugs. No one that comes into our home brings illegal drugs. I do not have within my circle of friends and aquaintences, those that choose to use illegal or recreational drugs. If I catch anyone with illegal drugs in our house, I WILL ring the Police. I will not ask any questions of them, nor will I accept any explanations or excuses. If I find any illegal drugs in our house, I will ring the Police. If either of my boys use or bring illegal drugs into our house I will grab them by the scruff of the neck and take them to the nearest Police station.
I pray for both of you that you don't have to learn the error of your ways personally.
Last edited by Sunfish; 10th Apr 2008 at 09:35.
In an effort to get this thread back on track, could I suggest a few PM's? Cetniks situation is no different from thousands of other kids. There also appear to be a few people who don't understand the risks to their kids anymore than I did before my son got ensnared.
Translation: Immoveable rockface solutions aren't always the best.
Translation: Immoveable rockface solutions aren't always the best.
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geeeez is this thread still being bounced off the walls? I guess cetnik really thru a curved ball here!
Notice anything here guys? CETNIK hasn't returned (most are probably aware of this fact anyway & have said so) & has left us bashing each other about the ears! He's either clever or very dumb, the latter (if he is at all real) would be the case I think. Maybe I have missed sumfin' here & he has returned via another 'nic' but it has shown that division is alive & well within the flying community!
Look nobody is denying that drugs exist in the aviation game it must exist in all sections of the work force from judges to the man on teh street unemployed it's just that why advertise it via this very heated forum & expect some rational answers?
CW
Notice anything here guys? CETNIK hasn't returned (most are probably aware of this fact anyway & have said so) & has left us bashing each other about the ears! He's either clever or very dumb, the latter (if he is at all real) would be the case I think. Maybe I have missed sumfin' here & he has returned via another 'nic' but it has shown that division is alive & well within the flying community!
Look nobody is denying that drugs exist in the aviation game it must exist in all sections of the work force from judges to the man on teh street unemployed it's just that why advertise it via this very heated forum & expect some rational answers?
CW
You've just demonstrated that you don't understand the problem. Report things to police and unless you are talking commercial quantities you will be met with "and your point is?". Push further and you now have a teenager with an "official" record. that means no flying, no public service job and suchlike, because the ten year time horizon doesn't apply to these convictions.
So go ahead, report your number one son to the police. They will try and dissuade you from taking matters further, but if you really really want to, you can destroy his employment prospects for the next thirty years if you try.
What a great victory for you and common sense.
Ps: Watch "Oasis" on ABC TV right now and hope to Christ your kids don't end up the victims of your uninformed attitudes.
So go ahead, report your number one son to the police. They will try and dissuade you from taking matters further, but if you really really want to, you can destroy his employment prospects for the next thirty years if you try.
What a great victory for you and common sense.
Ps: Watch "Oasis" on ABC TV right now and hope to Christ your kids don't end up the victims of your uninformed attitudes.
Last edited by Sunfish; 10th Apr 2008 at 10:39.
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Back on track....
Quite the can of worms this one 
I just think it's a bit rich to assume that the aviation community shouldn't or doesn't have the same vices as society in general.
As previosly mentioned herein, there are a couple of legal drugs that we pilots can use, which when taken to excess are far worse than your average one joint/cone a night habbit.
This is not a plug for recreational drugs but lets keep it real, at the end of the day no one is perfect.
Cetnik if you are seroius about flying as a carear then stay off the gear and DON'T mention your past indiscretions to your DAME or QF interview panel.
Good luck
PROP
Now if I can just get through all this haze to my Pink Floyd collection....
I just think it's a bit rich to assume that the aviation community shouldn't or doesn't have the same vices as society in general.
As previosly mentioned herein, there are a couple of legal drugs that we pilots can use, which when taken to excess are far worse than your average one joint/cone a night habbit.
This is not a plug for recreational drugs but lets keep it real, at the end of the day no one is perfect.
Cetnik if you are seroius about flying as a carear then stay off the gear and DON'T mention your past indiscretions to your DAME or QF interview panel.
Good luck
PROP
Now if I can just get through all this haze to my Pink Floyd collection....
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Hi guys
refer to post #47
I think it only just came up.
P.S-I have to agree with Sunfish as the drug use in todays youth is incredibly widespread.Of coarse it depends on which suburbs your kids are being brought up in but the issue starts as early as year 7 high schoolers and upwards.There was a survey conducted last year sometime which stated that 70% of 13-25 year olds in Melb have at least once tried the drug "Ice".Schocking?Yes of coarse, but it's a reality and for parents it may seem unreal but when you're a youngin in the scene then you really see what's happening around you.99% of parents aren't aware of their kids drug use and as strange as it may seem, it's the way it is.People can still lead a regular life whilst using recreationally but eventually it will catch up on you and it will destroy anyone.
Everyone deserves a second chance.We're only human and we do make mistakes, some small and some dramatic but it's just that drugs are a very touchy subject.
Thanks again to everyone
My nicknames in the process of being changed
refer to post #47
I think it only just came up.
P.S-I have to agree with Sunfish as the drug use in todays youth is incredibly widespread.Of coarse it depends on which suburbs your kids are being brought up in but the issue starts as early as year 7 high schoolers and upwards.There was a survey conducted last year sometime which stated that 70% of 13-25 year olds in Melb have at least once tried the drug "Ice".Schocking?Yes of coarse, but it's a reality and for parents it may seem unreal but when you're a youngin in the scene then you really see what's happening around you.99% of parents aren't aware of their kids drug use and as strange as it may seem, it's the way it is.People can still lead a regular life whilst using recreationally but eventually it will catch up on you and it will destroy anyone.
Everyone deserves a second chance.We're only human and we do make mistakes, some small and some dramatic but it's just that drugs are a very touchy subject.
Thanks again to everyone
My nicknames in the process of being changed
Last edited by Cetnik; 10th Apr 2008 at 14:29.
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Sunfish
You addressed me earlier today, and in reply, yes I have teenage kids. No they do not touch drugs.
My harsh comments, about the exploiters not the victims, pretty much remain unchanged, if your child sells a bit of theirs to help pay, thats not a commercial operation.
If you give the commercial operators a bullet......no need for the smaller end of town to have any supply/market and hence no problems.
Your kids who had a substance abuse problem are not the targets. Fix the bigger end up. Be swift and harsh.
Sunny old mate, if previous governments, police etc had the balls and taken a tougher stand a long time ago, YOU would have been far less likely to have to deal with the issues you have had. And I do truly feel sorry for you having to.
J
You addressed me earlier today, and in reply, yes I have teenage kids. No they do not touch drugs.
My harsh comments, about the exploiters not the victims, pretty much remain unchanged, if your child sells a bit of theirs to help pay, thats not a commercial operation.
If you give the commercial operators a bullet......no need for the smaller end of town to have any supply/market and hence no problems.
Your kids who had a substance abuse problem are not the targets. Fix the bigger end up. Be swift and harsh.
Sunny old mate, if previous governments, police etc had the balls and taken a tougher stand a long time ago, YOU would have been far less likely to have to deal with the issues you have had. And I do truly feel sorry for you having to.
J
