V Australia-Tell me it aint true! (Merged Thread)
Think about the long term!
Virgin are aware that the prospect of flying shiny new B777-300ER's is very attractive to a lot of younger pilots and is adjusting the salary to suit. If they look deeper into it they may rethink, ie long range flying across the Pacific is just about the most boring flying you can do especially if there is no career progression on to any other types/routes and LA would have to be the worst city in the US to have a slip - San Francisco and New York have character, LA has sleeze.
Thanks Boeing, Must say the more I look at V Oz, the less appeal it has.No career progression,paying for a bond,low salary(on a world scale), no I think I'll give J* my vote......looking forward to the 787
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No career progression
I suppose it may depend on whether they'll have a seniority system or just keep pushing old boys into the left seat.
7 Aircraft seems too many to just be doing LAX. Must be somewhere else in the plan.
Until someone gets an interview we wont know I suppose.
MAX
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agree max and think this model for a startup airline will be quite different and the opportunities will be there for the taking. understand it to be very much merit based progression across the business. got a good name in other markets from a pax perspective and reckon it will only get bigger and better.
Being a junior F/O candiate I can say that I would accept the pay in line with thoughts of quick progression to RH seat. I do feel salary is light but would be a good job.
I think they will get guys like me easily (and poss a few F/O's) but Capt's and F/O's they will struggle as they have a lot more options and experience.
I was told 120 postions for end May training. 3 a/c by end of year. Seems a lot of pilots for 3 a/c, I thought 6 crew per a/c was the usual = 60 odd?
I think they will get guys like me easily (and poss a few F/O's) but Capt's and F/O's they will struggle as they have a lot more options and experience.
I was told 120 postions for end May training. 3 a/c by end of year. Seems a lot of pilots for 3 a/c, I thought 6 crew per a/c was the usual = 60 odd?
Max, by career progression, I meant the ability to move to another type to get some variety. Trans Pacific flying is extremely boring and after a few years, most would be looking for a change.
Each aircraft would be able to do 3 return services per week so a fleet of 7 aircraft would indicate a capability of 21 services per week - that leaves enough down time for "A" checks but not enough for heavy maintenance but with brand new aircraft, the heavy checks are a few years off so there would probably be additional aircraft by then. Hopefully, for the crews, better destinations than LAX are planned.
Each aircraft would be able to do 3 return services per week so a fleet of 7 aircraft would indicate a capability of 21 services per week - that leaves enough down time for "A" checks but not enough for heavy maintenance but with brand new aircraft, the heavy checks are a few years off so there would probably be additional aircraft by then. Hopefully, for the crews, better destinations than LAX are planned.
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If they are doing LA they will probably use a 4 man crew (assumption - 1 Capt, 1 Senior FO & 2 junior FO's) for Flight & Duty limits @M.84.
The problem with this for the Junior FO's is that promotion to the RHS will be at half speed (twice as many junior FO's as Senior).
Unlike qf & j* where there is a defined path to a window seat in for the third crew member in the industrial instruments, given that V don't or won't tell T&C's it could be a long wait. Will crew be able to transfer to VB?
Worse 'Cruise' EFFO time is not given much credit by most operators. They all want to know actual "hand-on-stick" time.
If I was a manager, and I was a bastard, knowing there was a potential shortage looming I would want to employ the least qualified junior FO's I could get my hands on, knowing 'Cruise time' counts for nought, I could effectively 'trap' crew & reduce turnover at the bottom. DEC's & DEFO's may well be easier to find.
I know that sound harsh, cruel & cynical but I have seen this sought of thought process employed numerous times within this industry. For that, I am truly sorry.
Sorry to burst the bubble.
The problem with this for the Junior FO's is that promotion to the RHS will be at half speed (twice as many junior FO's as Senior).
Unlike qf & j* where there is a defined path to a window seat in for the third crew member in the industrial instruments, given that V don't or won't tell T&C's it could be a long wait. Will crew be able to transfer to VB?
Worse 'Cruise' EFFO time is not given much credit by most operators. They all want to know actual "hand-on-stick" time.
If I was a manager, and I was a bastard, knowing there was a potential shortage looming I would want to employ the least qualified junior FO's I could get my hands on, knowing 'Cruise time' counts for nought, I could effectively 'trap' crew & reduce turnover at the bottom. DEC's & DEFO's may well be easier to find.
I know that sound harsh, cruel & cynical but I have seen this sought of thought process employed numerous times within this industry. For that, I am truly sorry.
Sorry to burst the bubble.
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Being a junior F/O candiate I can say that I would accept the pay in line with thoughts of quick progression to RH seat.
I wouldn't be counting on that, it may happen, but when is anybody's guess at the moment!
7 Aircraft seems too many to just be doing LAX. Must be somewhere else in the plan.
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Wouldn't get to excited going in as a fo.
It is openly being discussed how to get the most out of all here.
That being VB is struggling to crew flights and get experienced people to take commands on EMB etc. Looking more and more like they may incorporate all. I.E to get a command on the 777 you must have 2000 or 3000 hours jet command and therefore that opportunity will be given on EMBs etc while the experienced 737 guys move to left seat 777.
It is openly being discussed how to get the most out of all here.
That being VB is struggling to crew flights and get experienced people to take commands on EMB etc. Looking more and more like they may incorporate all. I.E to get a command on the 777 you must have 2000 or 3000 hours jet command and therefore that opportunity will be given on EMBs etc while the experienced 737 guys move to left seat 777.
Howard
Where is that on the site? Can't seem to find it anywhere.
Cheers
If you check the recruitment website, they do ask where you would like to be based, some interesting cities on there, not just SYD & LAX!
Cheers
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If you check the recruitment website, they do ask where you would like to be based, some interesting cities on there, not just SYD & LAX!
MAX
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If Oz aviation history is anything to go by, they'll be killed in the rush with applicants - and starters. Maybe not the ones they'd really like to get, but bums to fill all required seats will be found, and without too much trouble.
I'd be guessing this first call phase is a very broard scattergun approach to see how many of the (I'd be guessing many) names they have on their list can actually answer a phone - and how many of those who do so don't actually hang up in their ear the moment they hear the 180k-210k Clayton's offer. (Did anyone receive an actual pay figure? All I heard was that they "were thinking" that the salary would be somewhere in the 180 to 210 range.)
It would need to be 210 and not 180 to attract many people from the Sandpit, and even 210 wouldn't be enough to attract any but a very, very few with school-age children.
The big imponderable remains - (and, I suspect, VOz are banking on this one being answered by enough in their favour): how many are willing to cop a pay cut (and how big a pay cut) to get their families back to Ruddsville?
The way the Sandpit and the Dirham are going lately, I suspect the answer might well be "enough".
I'd be guessing this first call phase is a very broard scattergun approach to see how many of the (I'd be guessing many) names they have on their list can actually answer a phone - and how many of those who do so don't actually hang up in their ear the moment they hear the 180k-210k Clayton's offer. (Did anyone receive an actual pay figure? All I heard was that they "were thinking" that the salary would be somewhere in the 180 to 210 range.)
It would need to be 210 and not 180 to attract many people from the Sandpit, and even 210 wouldn't be enough to attract any but a very, very few with school-age children.
The big imponderable remains - (and, I suspect, VOz are banking on this one being answered by enough in their favour): how many are willing to cop a pay cut (and how big a pay cut) to get their families back to Ruddsville?
The way the Sandpit and the Dirham are going lately, I suspect the answer might well be "enough".
Sprucegoose
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I think Howard may be confusing 'preferred recruitment ports' with an actual basing.
READ THE FINE PRINT!
It's a no-brainer. Take-off, Cruise, Land.
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Also rumor has it that part of the virgin group conditions is that they take half of the crews from VB. 10 per A/C so 5 have to come from VB.
Fairly good source.
anyone else heard this?
Haven't had a phone call as yet.
How much are they asking for the End?
Rishworth were selling it for $27kNZ for that air india job. didn't take that offer as well!!
GL
Fairly good source.
anyone else heard this?
Haven't had a phone call as yet.
How much are they asking for the End?
Rishworth were selling it for $27kNZ for that air india job. didn't take that offer as well!!
GL
Sprucegoose
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Actually I think the memorandum says 4/7ths from VB!
From the document:
The next line basically says that the remaining 3/7ths can be made up from Captains from both internal and external channels! (but I can't be bothered typing it in full! )
Cheers, HH.
From the document:
At least 4/7ths of the complement of Captains will be recruited exclusively from Captains wthin Virgin Blue
)Cheers, HH.
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Apparently the AFAP are having problems getting V A to return their phone calls.
It's hardly surprising that V A don't want to discuss the salary package - or even negotiate a salary package.
It's hardly surprising that V A don't want to discuss the salary package - or even negotiate a salary package.