18 week Fast Track CPL course
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18 week Fast Track CPL course
Hi everyone, I have just moved to W.A. from Sydney and am starting the 18 week Fast Track CPL course here in Perth. Has anyone got any helpful hints or comments??? 
cheers,
cheers,
Actually there is a Fast Trak course. RACWA does the instructing, but its not their course. I think it takes about 3 months or so from nil to CPL. I think so far about 2 or 3 people have done the course, its still fairly new. I doubt it's a wind up given that, can't tell you much more about the course though.
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Buggered if I would be employing a CPL that had never flown an aircraft four months previous. 
I can't honestly say I know anyone else that would either. 18 weeks is a fairly short time to absorb a lot of stuff. sausage factory just got more efficient and can pump them out a lot quicker now. I wonder what the quality of the product will be like. 
I can't honestly say I know anyone else that would either. 18 weeks is a fairly short time to absorb a lot of stuff. sausage factory just got more efficient and can pump them out a lot quicker now. I wonder what the quality of the product will be like.
I would suggest they would have equal experience as anyone else that has a 150hr CPL. Just because its done in 4 months instead of a year or ten why does that make them any worse than the next fellow with a new CPL?
If they have the license one can assume they can fly to the standard so how does it matter where or how that experience was gained?
If they have the license one can assume they can fly to the standard so how does it matter where or how that experience was gained?
18 weeks.
If a flying school can complete a CPL course in 18 weeks then CASA should undertake all the flight checks. It is near impossible to properly learn the theory in that space of time. One may pass the CPL exams, but that shouldn’t be to difficult, knowing that nearly all the questions in the CASA CPL bank are known and theory courses are aimed primarily at passing those exams. If one learns the question and the right answer yes it can be done.
I guess the student will come out with a CPL and little else, no wonder GA operators are complaining about the standard of CPL holders.
I guess the student will come out with a CPL and little else, no wonder GA operators are complaining about the standard of CPL holders.
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I would suggest they would have equal experience as anyone else that has a 150hr CPL. Just because its done in 4 months instead of a year or ten why does that make them any worse than the next fellow with a new CPL?
If they have the license one can assume they can fly to the standard so how does it matter where or how that experience was gained?
If they have the license one can assume they can fly to the standard so how does it matter where or how that experience was gained?
As for the last part of your statement........ well, I have been with some commercial pilots that have had the license...... and as you say, I assumed they could fly.......after a few circuits for a check before they took my aircraft away on hire, I have had to refuse to hire them the aircraft because they managed to bumble through four or so circuits and not be able to land the aircraft without me having to take it off them to prevent a prang.
A C172 is a pretty easy type of aircraft to land. Its not just been the one either.
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Gotta go with the Wizard on that one! sure 150 hours in the logbook but you dont get the exposure to aviation that you would otherwise. Say your normal CPL full time student will comlete things in a year. That gives alot more extra time to absorb the aviation environment and know whats what. Everybody ends up getting a CPL in the long run, Its your head on your shoulders and your attitude that lands you your 1st job. The best way to learn that is experience!
Firstly I would like to point out I am in no way at all involved with that particular program, I just know of it.
I agree experience is the best teacher. Having said that, how do you know (without talking to the people) whether the person having done a 4 month course has not been around planes their whole life. Or perhaps they did one of the multitude of aviation type degrees around the place and then decided the best way to do the flying would be as quickly as possible.
Ok I tend to agree a walk in off the street with nothing behind them, getting taught to the exam is going to fall well short of someone who has least been in aviation for 12 months (I can't say whether they are taught to the exam or actually anything factual about the course other than it exists).
On here I see time and time again people being written off for choosing to go down the instructing road, or being taught something by their instructor which is wrong and asking a question, etc etc. Now its starting before they even begin their flying with us having no knowledge of their background at all.
Whether the course turns out good product or not I do not know, but I would like to think the person would be given an equal shot at an interview as the next fellow.
I agree experience is the best teacher. Having said that, how do you know (without talking to the people) whether the person having done a 4 month course has not been around planes their whole life. Or perhaps they did one of the multitude of aviation type degrees around the place and then decided the best way to do the flying would be as quickly as possible.
Ok I tend to agree a walk in off the street with nothing behind them, getting taught to the exam is going to fall well short of someone who has least been in aviation for 12 months (I can't say whether they are taught to the exam or actually anything factual about the course other than it exists).
On here I see time and time again people being written off for choosing to go down the instructing road, or being taught something by their instructor which is wrong and asking a question, etc etc. Now its starting before they even begin their flying with us having no knowledge of their background at all.
Whether the course turns out good product or not I do not know, but I would like to think the person would be given an equal shot at an interview as the next fellow.
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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I think they would have an equal chance as any other 150hr CPL.
I just don't think they would rate very highly on the short list of prospective employees. Its a very competitive market out there, and I personally can't see a person that has no other flying experience other than three months flying training to a CPL standing much of a chance of landing a job. It could quite possibly happen, But I'm afraid I wouldn't be too keen to employ them.
Not trying to bring anyone down, Just stating things the way they are, and therefore I guess I'm questioning the value off the course.
I'm more than happy to be corrected by others out there that would be prepared to employ a 150hr, trained in three months pilot.
Cheers, Wiz.
I just don't think they would rate very highly on the short list of prospective employees. Its a very competitive market out there, and I personally can't see a person that has no other flying experience other than three months flying training to a CPL standing much of a chance of landing a job. It could quite possibly happen, But I'm afraid I wouldn't be too keen to employ them.
Not trying to bring anyone down, Just stating things the way they are, and therefore I guess I'm questioning the value off the course.
I'm more than happy to be corrected by others out there that would be prepared to employ a 150hr, trained in three months pilot.
Cheers, Wiz.
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Bit precious about this, aren't you guys?
A CPL is quite do-able in 18 wks, for a smart student with aptitude.
I did my UPPL in 3.5 wks, full-time, and by the time I had accumulated about 120 hrs was peddling a C210 all around Qld. Did my CPL in Kiwiland in 6 weeks, part-time. So, call it 10 wks part-time/full-time for flying training - leaves the equivalent of 2 mths full-time plus nights for the other 10 wks to get the subjects.
Personally, I would employ a 150 hr in 18 wks CPL, particularly if I liked their attitude and style, and they were operating in a reasonably supervised environment.
R
A CPL is quite do-able in 18 wks, for a smart student with aptitude.
I did my UPPL in 3.5 wks, full-time, and by the time I had accumulated about 120 hrs was peddling a C210 all around Qld. Did my CPL in Kiwiland in 6 weeks, part-time. So, call it 10 wks part-time/full-time for flying training - leaves the equivalent of 2 mths full-time plus nights for the other 10 wks to get the subjects.
Personally, I would employ a 150 hr in 18 wks CPL, particularly if I liked their attitude and style, and they were operating in a reasonably supervised environment.
R
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Currency
I was once a ppl, and after the initial burst of enthusiastic flying, found it hard to find the money to fly often, and keep current. Enthusiasm waned. I was probably an accident going somewhere to happen, like many uncurrent weekend warriors are. Fortunately a friendly flying instructor told me so, and I set out to change this.
Many of todays cpls, have been struggling for years to finance their flying and get their licence. They are often out of their depth when they start their first job, lacking experience and currency. The workload is more than they can easily handle. We see aircraft taxiing with baggage compartment doors left open, Chieftains taxiing with flipper doors open etc. Most need a friendly environment to work in, and simpler, more predictable flights to build up experience and confidence.
The 18 week course probably has merit as it introduces a pilot to the workload he is likely to experience in his first job, The consistent flying will build confidence and situational awareness that is obviously lacking in many newbies. I believe it is also the best learning arrangement you can get.
I think that the character and attitude of a pilot is far more important than the detail of his training course. If he takes it all seriously he will achieve.
It's the "get rich quick" people who are the problem.
You have to earn it.
Many of todays cpls, have been struggling for years to finance their flying and get their licence. They are often out of their depth when they start their first job, lacking experience and currency. The workload is more than they can easily handle. We see aircraft taxiing with baggage compartment doors left open, Chieftains taxiing with flipper doors open etc. Most need a friendly environment to work in, and simpler, more predictable flights to build up experience and confidence.
The 18 week course probably has merit as it introduces a pilot to the workload he is likely to experience in his first job, The consistent flying will build confidence and situational awareness that is obviously lacking in many newbies. I believe it is also the best learning arrangement you can get.
I think that the character and attitude of a pilot is far more important than the detail of his training course. If he takes it all seriously he will achieve.
It's the "get rich quick" people who are the problem.
You have to earn it.
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Maybe exposure to the industry for a start. some one doing the course over twelve months will certainly be around the school/club/aircraft a lot longer than three months. Also someone undertaking a course over twelve or so months will have to demonstrate a consistent level of proficiency where as the three month fella will only only have to demonstrate that level over a very short period..... good enough on the day sort of thing. Seems they would be taught to pass the exam instead of taught the subject. gotta be honest, I would be pretty hesitant in employing a 150Hr CPL as well though.
As for the last part of your statement........ well, I have been with some commercial pilots that have had the license...... and as you say, I assumed they could fly.......after a few circuits for a check before they took my aircraft away on hire, I have had to refuse to hire them the aircraft because they managed to bumble through four or so circuits and not be able to land the aircraft without me having to take it off them to prevent a prang.
A C172 is a pretty easy type of aircraft to land. Its not just been the one either.
As for the last part of your statement........ well, I have been with some commercial pilots that have had the license...... and as you say, I assumed they could fly.......after a few circuits for a check before they took my aircraft away on hire, I have had to refuse to hire them the aircraft because they managed to bumble through four or so circuits and not be able to land the aircraft without me having to take it off them to prevent a prang.
A C172 is a pretty easy type of aircraft to land. Its not just been the one either.
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Obviously there is a need to conduct this type of intensive training. I have instructed Qantas cadets and trained numerous CIR short course candidates and I would have no hesitation in supporting such a scheme.
Certainly there is a valid point to be made about living and breathing aviation for a year or more but that shouldn't rule this concept out, because there were a large majority of dickheads who did live and breathe and still couldn't fly well after 1 or 2 years.
I did my own multi-engine training approval over 3 days some years ago with "CHESTY" and feel I obtained more benefit from this than spreading it out over several weeks.
The proof is in the training. I have visited the RACWA to do a maths course and observed them to be a trumped up bunch of Top Gun WANNABES but they have certainly read the market and I hope they do a good job of it.
Good on them because at least Jandakot is jumping. Not like the Ghost Town formerly known as Bankstown.
GUARD
Certainly there is a valid point to be made about living and breathing aviation for a year or more but that shouldn't rule this concept out, because there were a large majority of dickheads who did live and breathe and still couldn't fly well after 1 or 2 years.
I did my own multi-engine training approval over 3 days some years ago with "CHESTY" and feel I obtained more benefit from this than spreading it out over several weeks.
The proof is in the training. I have visited the RACWA to do a maths course and observed them to be a trumped up bunch of Top Gun WANNABES but they have certainly read the market and I hope they do a good job of it.
Good on them because at least Jandakot is jumping. Not like the Ghost Town formerly known as Bankstown.
GUARD
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Hey, It was only my observations and opinion being voiced here. If you all think its a great idea, well goodo. I personally don't.
Well, lets see!, only about most of them if they fly on the weekends for themselves, most of them if they are doing jollies as a first job. Hell, I still spent a substantial amount of time in one. they are used quite widely in Australia, and are most CPL's first steed.
If you guys reckon you would employ a 150hr pilot that hadn't flown an aircraft before three months ago, you just go ahead and employ them. I have to wonder why there are so many way higher time pilots looking for work, and why most companies want to see some hours in the logbook before they will look at a pilto with a view to employing them.
How many guys/gals do you know that got a job with 150Hrs and three months after starting their training?.... be realistic. Not to many I warrant. It happens, but its the exception and not the norm.
And when was the last time the commercial pilots flew a C172...the ones you had to land for I mean?
If you guys reckon you would employ a 150hr pilot that hadn't flown an aircraft before three months ago, you just go ahead and employ them. I have to wonder why there are so many way higher time pilots looking for work, and why most companies want to see some hours in the logbook before they will look at a pilto with a view to employing them.
How many guys/gals do you know that got a job with 150Hrs and three months after starting their training?.... be realistic. Not to many I warrant. It happens, but its the exception and not the norm.
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Thanks for pointing that out wiz...I mean...Obviously they had flown 172s before...but how long ago had these particular 'struggling' pilots that you referred to flown a 172 when you personally had to land for them? That was the question. As for your latter comment..guess time will show us how many of these "fast tracked" pilots get jobs after...well...4 months. From what I've read they have a 100% success rate thus far 
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Obviously there is a need to conduct this type of intensive training. I have instructed Qantas cadets and trained numerous CIR short course candidates and I would have no hesitation in supporting such a scheme.
Certainly there is a valid point to be made about living and breathing aviation for a year or more but that shouldn't rule this concept out, because there were a large majority of dickheads who did live and breathe and still couldn't fly well after 1 or 2 years.
I did my own multi-engine training approval over 3 days some years ago with "CHESTY" and feel I obtained more benefit from this than spreading it out over several weeks.
The proof is in the training. I have visited the RACWA to do a maths course and observed them to be a trumped up bunch of Top Gun WANNABES but they have certainly read the market and I hope they do a good job of it.
Good on them because at least Jandakot is jumping. Not like the Ghost Town formerly known as Bankstown.
GUARD
Certainly there is a valid point to be made about living and breathing aviation for a year or more but that shouldn't rule this concept out, because there were a large majority of dickheads who did live and breathe and still couldn't fly well after 1 or 2 years.
I did my own multi-engine training approval over 3 days some years ago with "CHESTY" and feel I obtained more benefit from this than spreading it out over several weeks.
The proof is in the training. I have visited the RACWA to do a maths course and observed them to be a trumped up bunch of Top Gun WANNABES but they have certainly read the market and I hope they do a good job of it.
Good on them because at least Jandakot is jumping. Not like the Ghost Town formerly known as Bankstown.
GUARD