S/E take-off safety brief?

[jsmitty01]

Just wondering how many people do a take-off safety brief when they fly single engine aircraft?

My instructor taught me to use one from the very start of my training which was short and concise and consisted of:

* What speed to lift the nose wheel off the ground
* Take-off safety speed to reach
* What to do with an engine failure near the ground
* What to do with an engine failure with no runway left

Before a checkflight with one school, when I started my brief the instructor said "what are you doing that for?, You don't need to say all that. It's not a twin. We don't have a choice, if the engine fails near the ground we are gonna land. If it fails when were a bit higher we'll have to look for a place to land".

Surely he is of the minority?

[27/09]

Good idea to have a plan of action and brief yourself on it, though I would suggest that you do it mentally rather than voice it out aloud if you have passengers to avoid causing any alarm. Something like "If I have an engine failure on/after takeoff, with sufficient runway ahead I will land on the runway, other wise I will lower the nose to maintain speed and land straight ahead/left or right to avoid obstacles". The actaul brief should be tailored to the departure runway and any special considerations that may arise.

Never ever taught any student to brief what speed to raise nose wheel or a take off safety speed (what ever that means in a single). What ever happened to setting a nose attitude for the climb on departure.

I have seen the results of a pilot being taught to raise the nose at a particular speed, the aircraft use up nearly all of a grass runway with a soft surface before the pilot aborted the takeoff. The pilot waited for the "correct" speed to raise the nose, and never got to that speed, yet the aircraft could take off quite safely as was demonstrated when the pilot eventually used the correct technique for those conditions.

I fear to much empasis is put on things like fancy take off briefs and not enough emphasis on teaching pilots how to adjust to the conditions(airmanship in other words).

So the short answer is, No I don't think he is in the minority.

[the wizard of auz]

I agree. No, he isn't in the minority. fly to the conditions. maybe a little mental reminder of the efato drill to yourself if your new to it, but it will all happen automatically after a little experiance.
just give it what it needs to get it to fly and do what you want to do within its designed limits.

[GolfTangoVictor]

T/OSS should be briefed regardless, shouldnt it?

All you need to is have a look at Flight Safety's monthly articles to realise that!

Ive been taught by ex RAAF guys to brief everything....

A point say, 600m (average single's T/O Run) along the runway is nominated (in a single), and my brief goes:

"This is a (insert type- normal, short field/soft field) T/O RWYxx YXXX. T/OSS is (eg.) 60kts. Rotate speed is 60kts. If 2/3 of the T/Oss hasn't been achieved by that point, I will "Maintain Aircraft Control", close the throttle, and abort straight ahead. I Will call out brace, you will unlatch the door, and brace, exiting the aircraft once it has come to a complete stop, and moving upwind of it.

And I brief al EFATO options... it only makes sense to do so, and I dont understand why you wouldnt, when the statistics point to it as the most likely time.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Or, as was explained to me when I tried to go through my patter during a load check on a Cherokee Six. Apparently it should go like this:

"This is a Cherokee Six. If the engine fails after takeoff we're all dead".

Lightheartedness aside, at a very large percentage of airports in Oz (and getting more so in the cities) that what you do with the aircraft isn't relevant - the terrain isn't going to let you back on the ground in the state you left it.

UTR.

[Centaurus]

We never did take off safety briefs in Tiger Moths and certainly not in Camels in WW1.

[Chimbu chuckles]

What speed I will left the nosewheel off the ground?

All I ever do in my Bonanza is think about the glide speed clean and dirty and where I might go after the airport stops being an option.

110/90 paddock/road/beech/river.

That covers every 'decision' i will make.

This sounds like yet another example of instructors trying to ape 'airlines' but with no direct experience of it.

[gassed budgie]

I can't ever remember giving myself a safety brief before takeoff in a single. If the engine quits, the decision has been made for you. It gets pretty simple right after that. I'm only interested in maintaining the appropriate airspeed and if there's some runway left well that's great and if there's not, I'm aiming for the clearest bit of ground available.

This sounds like yet another example of instructors trying to ape 'airlines' but with no direct experience of it.

I remember being admonished once by an instructor for not using the pre-start checks. He told me, rather proudly it seemed, that they were longer than a 737's. I said "we're only flying a 210, ya kidding me aren't you?"
Unfortunately he wasn't.

[Red777]

Where i trained it was always asked but during com navs and the CPL test it was ran through mentally about the course of action to take...Lucky for me MCY has lots of beach and RWY...

Different people and operators want different things...basicly ask you CFI/CP what he wants etc

[OZBUSDRIVER]

In Chimbu Chuckles' case...Do I have enough performance to clear the levybank or not

[Ratshit]

Originally Posted by Chimbu chuckles

110/90 paddock/road/beech/river

That would be a "Beech on the beach"!

... or maybe a "Beached Beech"?

R

[Chimbu chuckles]

Life's a beech...if ya get that far

[*Lancer*]

I've always done a safety brief... the important thing to do is keep it relevant and simple! What do you want to remind yourself of? I like to remember the best glide speed, what bits of ground are beyond the upwind end, and that I won't be tempted to spin it back.

If you think what your initial instructor taught you is a good thing, then keep doing it!

[bushy]

Important things

Keep it simple. That way it will get done, and will be effective. And most important, as Lancer says, don't "spin it back"
How many pilots are there who have never spun an aircraft? Will the first time be the last?

[GearOff]

My s/e VFR takeoff safety brief is relatively short and simple but I think covers the main things of interest.

Actions in the event of an emergency:
- Engine failure after takeoff with runway remaining (full flap, land ahead)
- Engine failure after takeoff with no runway remaining (select field, best glide speed, flaps as required)

Normal departure procedure:
- Direction of turn
- Type of departure (upwind / overhead / etc)
- Initial altitude

[Gargleblaster]

This is what I mumble to myself before departure, in case anyone finds it interesting:

• Takeoff from a hard / soft long / short rwy with flaps in X position
• The wind is X degrees from the right / left
• Rotate at X kts, accelerate to X kts, climb to X feet
• Expecting left / right turn after departure to leave control zone at X
• Engine failure below 500 feet: NOSE DOWN, flaps as needed land straight ahead +/-30 degrees

[locknut]

Ok guys, whoever reckons that it is not worth doing pre take off briefs in single engine aircraft have got rocks in their head. I agree with some of the blokes that you don't have to sit there at the holding point or wherever, for 5mins going through every single possbile possibility that may occur. If you need to do that then you should be at home studying. The pre take off brief is designed as a quick reminder of your actions should the engine fail. The purpose of a pre take off brief in a twin is no different to that of a single. The pilot still has a series of actions that need to be performed in the unlikely even of an engine failure, the only difference is that they're different checks. Whether in a single or a twin, the actions you perform in the next few seconds may just save your life so you better make the right decisions.

I haven't flown a single piston in years but I do recall my brief including things like:

"VR is XX. Should the engine fail I will lower the nose and trim for XX (glide speed) and put her down, whether that be in joe bloggs' paddock or on the remaining runway, if time permits I will check... If there is a fire I will... All going well I will turn L/R at 1500 onto XXX and climb to XXXX"

Whoever teachers a student to only look at the airspeed for take off clearly shouldn't be instructing or the student shouldn't be flying. I think this is an isolated case.

As for the dude that got taught by someone in the airforce, pis* off that brief mate, what are you trying to do? Scare the sh*t out of your passengers?

[Centaurus]

Heard one instructor telling his student to brief him on his actions in event of go-around on short final, brief him on go-around at 50 feet crossing the fence, brief on go around after a bounced landing and brief him on a go around at the flare. All this was to be briefed on the downwind leg before each landing. The student was forced to extend downwind to cover all the talking. The instructor should have been sacked for ripping off the students flying time and sacked for being so incompetent.

[andrew495]

Originally Posted by locknut

Whether in a single or a twin, the actions you perform in the next few seconds may just save your life so you better make the right decisions.

Definitely agree with this.

If you have an EFATO, you will most likely be dumbstruck and do nothing for a few seconds, which is pretty obvious. However, if you already know exactly what you will do, you will be able to at least act in those first few seconds without wondering if you should land ahead, or turn back, or look for a road, whatever. Having a plan gives you more options. This could very easily be the difference between living to tell the story or being the story, so it makes sense to spend a few extra seconds on the ground and know exactly what you will do, and give yourself the best chance of living, rather than panic without a plan.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Originally Posted by Centaurus

Heard one instructor telling his student to brief him on his actions in event of go-around on short final, brief him on go-around at 50 feet crossing the fence, brief on go around after a bounced landing and brief him on a go around at the flare.

Isn't the procedure for each of these circumstances more or less the same anyway? i.e. Firewall throttle, attitude, trim for climb, raise flaps to suit speed as you accelerate?

Why on earth would a student have to go-around at the flare? Or was the instructor talking about landing on a soccer field during a riot?

As far as looking for a speed at which to rotate, I was never taught to do that. With the right trim, the aircraft pretty much always told me when it wanted to leave the surly bonds... Setting the speed in the climb was more about attitude to obtain max climb rate or max angle of climb (52 kt in a Warrior was about as steep a climb as it went, I think).

The most important safety issue for a student should be to look where they're going on the runway, i.e. look out the front window please mate, watch you clear the trees at the far end if you could.

It's not like you have a PNF calling out the knots and bug speeds - or have instructors started doing that for their students in some places?

VHCU