27th Jan 2019, 13:21 - Wikipost
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A thread where ex PNG geriatrics lapuns and long longs can live in the dim distant past.
Where tall stories are accepted as fact. War stories are applauded. Grab a Brownie, pull up a story and join in a trip down memory lane!!! 
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PNG Ples Bilong Tok Tok
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Enroute from Dagobah to Tatooine...!
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Animalclub, I thought I did, but after looking I can't find any... 
How about Tumolbil a bit closer again to the border? That strip is even more interesting being deep in the end of a VERY narrow valley!
How about Tumolbil a bit closer again to the border? That strip is even more interesting being deep in the end of a VERY narrow valley!
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Age: 79
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That's right J Tulla,
The newcomer with a PNG posting would remember best the cameraderie.
All single staff were provided with full board and lodging at a 'mess'. Everyone, pilots, engineers, traffic officers, office wallahs and (in the case of Ansett & TAA) hosties all shared a common bar, dining hall, went to the movies as a group etc.
There was no 'I am a pilot therefore more valuable than you' attitude.
Pilots, it was said, would live to finish their posting if they survived the first 12 months flying in PNG.
Sadly many didn't.
The newcomer with a PNG posting would remember best the cameraderie.
All single staff were provided with full board and lodging at a 'mess'. Everyone, pilots, engineers, traffic officers, office wallahs and (in the case of Ansett & TAA) hosties all shared a common bar, dining hall, went to the movies as a group etc.
There was no 'I am a pilot therefore more valuable than you' attitude.
Pilots, it was said, would live to finish their posting if they survived the first 12 months flying in PNG.
Sadly many didn't.
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Nor is there in Australian aviation.
It's a case of shaft the next person before he/ she shafts you.
A metaphor for the post modern condition perhaps?
It's a case of shaft the next person before he/ she shafts you.
A metaphor for the post modern condition perhaps?
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Bay, Vic, Oz
Age: 80
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Must admit my times with Malerial Tours '70/'71 were some of the best in the business. Most of the kids flying the BN2A's were just there to build hours, got paid very very little. Wasn't unusual for engineers to pick up the bar tab at SPAC, on account they were paid to be in TPNG.
I think the pilots were more aware than anywhere else I worked of their dependance upon airworthy aircraft. Tons of friendly banter used to pass all the time, along with requests like "can you give the port donk a good look at, not sure but a bit suss on a few occasions on descent after a long run". Followed by a long chat describing precise symptoms, rather than a meaningless write-up in the log.
I think the pilots were more aware than anywhere else I worked of their dependance upon airworthy aircraft. Tons of friendly banter used to pass all the time, along with requests like "can you give the port donk a good look at, not sure but a bit suss on a few occasions on descent after a long run". Followed by a long chat describing precise symptoms, rather than a meaningless write-up in the log.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Granite Belt, Australia
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Captain Nomad
I'd like it to be Moonbil. If memory serves the strip was cut into the side of a hill. Took a twin otter out there from Tabubil one Christmas eve to rescue a Playboy author... as we taxied to the "terminal" one of the pilots stated that she was "worth saving". She had walked from Telefomin "to clear her mind"!
After accommodating her at my house for a couple of nights and taking her to the Orphans Christmas dinner at the Hash Haus, her cheque, drawn on a bank in New York, bounced. I had no choice but to accept it. I tracked her down through the internet and got my money back just last year - about 20 years after the event.
I'd like it to be Moonbil. If memory serves the strip was cut into the side of a hill. Took a twin otter out there from Tabubil one Christmas eve to rescue a Playboy author... as we taxied to the "terminal" one of the pilots stated that she was "worth saving". She had walked from Telefomin "to clear her mind"!
After accommodating her at my house for a couple of nights and taking her to the Orphans Christmas dinner at the Hash Haus, her cheque, drawn on a bank in New York, bounced. I had no choice but to accept it. I tracked her down through the internet and got my money back just last year - about 20 years after the event.
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: dublin
Age: 74
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g'day
I am in Dublin and enjoy reading your posts about PNG.
I worked there 75-79 - not in the aviation business, but as an Architect in the housing Commission - Air Nuigini housing etc.
I knew a pilot by the name of Brian O' Sullivan - and had good times with him.
He died in an aircrash sometime in 78 or 79 - do any of you rememeber him and have any details of the aircrash ?
thanks
Des Collins
I am in Dublin and enjoy reading your posts about PNG.
I worked there 75-79 - not in the aviation business, but as an Architect in the housing Commission - Air Nuigini housing etc.
I knew a pilot by the name of Brian O' Sullivan - and had good times with him.
He died in an aircrash sometime in 78 or 79 - do any of you rememeber him and have any details of the aircrash ?
thanks
Des Collins
I remember Brian, think he was hooked up with John Guise family?
Think he was flying a Douglas Airways GAF Nomad and crashed in Papua? Undershot or tried a go around at a strip one shouldn't try that?
Don't remember the details or year. Should be something on Google.
P.S. It may be this accident?
Douglas Airways
23 Dec 1979
Menari, Papua New Guinea
GAF Nomad 22B
I didn't think Biscuit Ears had N22s - thought all his were N24s?
Think he was flying a Douglas Airways GAF Nomad and crashed in Papua? Undershot or tried a go around at a strip one shouldn't try that?
Don't remember the details or year. Should be something on Google.
P.S. It may be this accident?
Douglas Airways
23 Dec 1979
Menari, Papua New Guinea
GAF Nomad 22B
I didn't think Biscuit Ears had N22s - thought all his were N24s?
Last edited by Torres; 26th Apr 2010 at 21:46.
Indeed that was Brian's accident. Just prior to Christmas.
All of Douglas' Nomads were N22's. The N24's even worse performance than the N22 would have been a disaster in PNG.
All of Douglas' Nomads were N22's. The N24's even worse performance than the N22 would have been a disaster in PNG.
Were the IAT Nomads N22's or N24's?
Were the military Nomads N22's or N24's?
I really never took much notice of them, especially after Biscuit Ears announced to the world that he was going to build Nomads in PNG.......
Were the military Nomads N22's or N24's?
I really never took much notice of them, especially after Biscuit Ears announced to the world that he was going to build Nomads in PNG.......
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Pointy End
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Wasn't there an inherent flight control problem with the Nomad family, I recall one of the PX drivers who was Ex GAF and a Nomad Test Pilot for manufacturer mentioning something about it. Can't recall the actual issue, due to SP riddled memory, however this was the achilles heel for this airplane.
I think a few aircraft actually made it to the Indonesian military as well, before being replaced by the CASA.
O'Sullivan was a good man. He was a gifted linguist as well and was able to hold a broken conversation in a few PNG languages ,which was impressive.
I think a few aircraft actually made it to the Indonesian military as well, before being replaced by the CASA.
O'Sullivan was a good man. He was a gifted linguist as well and was able to hold a broken conversation in a few PNG languages ,which was impressive.
Grandpa Aerotart
Someone once told me that prior to getting turbines Talair and Douglas were fairly similar companies size/aircraft wise - Then OUR Dennis got Twotters and THEIR Dennis got Nomads and the rest, as they say, is history.
High 6 the tails were weak IIRC. I don't think it was so much a flight controls problem as much as if you were in flight you had a problem.
JT I think its fair to say that PNG aviation over the decades and certainly when I was there was a great example of what aircraft can achieve when the regulators get out of the way and let good people have at it. And we had lots of fun - which is now against the law.
High 6 the tails were weak IIRC. I don't think it was so much a flight controls problem as much as if you were in flight you had a problem.
JT I think its fair to say that PNG aviation over the decades and certainly when I was there was a great example of what aircraft can achieve when the regulators get out of the way and let good people have at it. And we had lots of fun - which is now against the law.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: QLD
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JT I think its fair to say that PNG aviation over the decades and certainly when I was there was a great example of what aircraft can achieve when the regulators get out of the way and let good people have at it. And we had lots of fun - which is now against the law.
Trouble was (and probably still is) that many of the regulatory people "at the coal face" with heaps of industry experience were just not listened to by CASA senior management, who seemed to set policies based mainly on political and (sometimes) industry pressures, not necessarily good sense.The PNG DCA guys in my day were pretty realistic about most of the things we did in operations. For example, "PNG VFR" was viewed as a very tongue-in-cheek interpretation of the rules. Most of the DCA guys I flew with were OK with that provided you could demonstrate that you were operating safely by always giving yourself a way out of trouble. They were usually willing to take a realistic view of "VFR" operations during route checks, and those who eventually left the regulator to take up a job in the industry soon found themselves doing the same things we did day in and day out. For example, I remember one afternoon scud-running down the Whagi Valley to Mt Hagen in a PX DC3, flying with an ex-DCA Examiner (Jasper M - most of the oldies will know who I mean). His comment to me was "Not strictly VFR, I suppose, but there's nobody from DCA on board...!"
Despite such bending of the rules, there were very few cowboys flying in PNG - they just didn't last long. The vast majority of PNG pilots were very careful, even though they were often willing to push the operational envelope and their skills to the limit. PNG was REAL flying and yes, it was a hell of a lot of fun, wasn't it?! I learned more about flying in my 7 years there than in all the other 35 years I spent as an operational pilot, flight instructor and regulator.
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Torres
Chimbu Warrior
High 6
Thanks for the memories of Brian O'Sullivan.
I did google - didnn't realise 15 people had died.
Menari photo below.
I think I might have a pic of BOS in his laplap.
Can almost see him now.
Chimbu Warrior
High 6
Thanks for the memories of Brian O'Sullivan.
I did google - didnn't realise 15 people had died.
Menari photo below.
I think I might have a pic of BOS in his laplap.
Can almost see him now.
Someone once told me that prior to getting turbines Talair and Douglas were fairly similar companies size/aircraft wise - Then OUR Dennis got Twotters and THEIR Dennis got Nomads and the rest, as they say, is history.
Dennis Douglas acquired 100% of Aerial Tours in the mid 1970s and renamed it Douglas Airways. They were always much smaller than TAL but gave TAL the greatest resistance to take over, despite the competition we threw at them.
Macair was also started by two TAL pilots, Brian McCook and Dave McClure but were taken over fairly easily by Talair in the mid 1970s.
I have to agree, CC, even though I spent eleven years in CASA doing regulatory development...! Trouble was (and probably still is) that many of the regulatory people "at the coal face" with heaps of industry experience were just not listened to by CASA senior management, who seemed to set policies based mainly on political and (sometimes) industry pressures, not necessarily good sense.
O'Sullivan was a good man. He was a gifted linguist as well and was able to hold a broken conversation in a few PNG languages ,which was impressive.
Last edited by Torres; 27th Apr 2010 at 12:36.
Moderator
I have to declare an interest .. having worked at the factory for two periods.
The N24's even worse performance than the N22 would have been a disaster in PNG
Probably more accurate to say that the N24 was a closer to the design standard performance limits and the A's MTOW was OEI climb limited. I can recall running some OEI climb tests to qualify some external mods in Darwin years ago and the performance wasn't overly exciting.
The other side of the coin is that the Nomad has one of the highest payload/gross values in the arena.
All a case of horses for courses .. in some roles the Nomad excels .. in others, try something else.
Wasn't there an inherent flight control problem with the Nomad family,
You're probably thinking of the flap 20 long stab problem ?
I recall one of the PX drivers who was Ex GAF and a Nomad Test Pilot for manufacturer mentioning something about it.
Brin H perhaps ?
however this was the achilles heel for this airplane.
I wouldn't have agreed with that observation .. rather, the main problems arose from the design's being driven by the design standards rather than the normal way of things .. design it to work well and then check that the ticks in the boxes are OK.
More problematic was the structural design which was pretty critical (hence the payload/gross benefits). Resulted in a fair bit of tin cracking etc. Certainly an aircraft which needed the maintenance kept up to it and then it just kept on going and going ...
the tails were weak IIRC
The tailplane had a fatigue problem just like all planes have problems. Providing that the inspections were done appropriately, it was just another problem to manage. However, the low frequency motions were a tad disconcerting to watch at times ...
And we had lots of fun - which is now against the law
Guess that's why blokes like us approaching our dotage are getting more interested in other pursuits like sailing and fishing ... wine, women and song rapidly getting to be somewhat beyond our declining capabilities ...
when he flew the Nomad with a helicopter pilot helmet and lap-lap!
.. then I won't bore you with the time we Electra crew chaps fell asleep on Swanbourne and got burnt to crisps .... the flight back to Melbourne that night involved some inovation so far as uniform clobber and such like was concerned ... Jim S, who was the most afflicted, supervised the flight standing in the rear of the cockpit as he just couldn't bear to sit in the seat ...
The N24's even worse performance than the N22 would have been a disaster in PNG
Probably more accurate to say that the N24 was a closer to the design standard performance limits and the A's MTOW was OEI climb limited. I can recall running some OEI climb tests to qualify some external mods in Darwin years ago and the performance wasn't overly exciting.
The other side of the coin is that the Nomad has one of the highest payload/gross values in the arena.
All a case of horses for courses .. in some roles the Nomad excels .. in others, try something else.
Wasn't there an inherent flight control problem with the Nomad family,
You're probably thinking of the flap 20 long stab problem ?
I recall one of the PX drivers who was Ex GAF and a Nomad Test Pilot for manufacturer mentioning something about it.
Brin H perhaps ?
however this was the achilles heel for this airplane.
I wouldn't have agreed with that observation .. rather, the main problems arose from the design's being driven by the design standards rather than the normal way of things .. design it to work well and then check that the ticks in the boxes are OK.
More problematic was the structural design which was pretty critical (hence the payload/gross benefits). Resulted in a fair bit of tin cracking etc. Certainly an aircraft which needed the maintenance kept up to it and then it just kept on going and going ...
the tails were weak IIRC
The tailplane had a fatigue problem just like all planes have problems. Providing that the inspections were done appropriately, it was just another problem to manage. However, the low frequency motions were a tad disconcerting to watch at times ...
And we had lots of fun - which is now against the law
Guess that's why blokes like us approaching our dotage are getting more interested in other pursuits like sailing and fishing ... wine, women and song rapidly getting to be somewhat beyond our declining capabilities ...
when he flew the Nomad with a helicopter pilot helmet and lap-lap!
.. then I won't bore you with the time we Electra crew chaps fell asleep on Swanbourne and got burnt to crisps .... the flight back to Melbourne that night involved some inovation so far as uniform clobber and such like was concerned ... Jim S, who was the most afflicted, supervised the flight standing in the rear of the cockpit as he just couldn't bear to sit in the seat ...