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Foreign pilots now allowed to apply for a Green Card?

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Foreign pilots now allowed to apply for a Green Card?

Old 23rd Sep 2021, 09:49
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Foreign pilots now allowed to apply for a Green Card?

Hello gents,

i recently have started to see more and more posts on social media such as linkedin, FB, etc..., rumors among colleagues and websites claiming that since the shortage of pilots in the USA, it is now allowed to apply for a Green Card in the US if you are a foreign pilot.

http://agimmigration.law/en/aviation/

TO ENCOURAGE THE ARRIVAL OF QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS TO THE UNITED STATES., WHICH CAN BE EXTENDED TO PILOTS, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT DESIGNED A VISA PROGRAM FOR FOREIGN PROFESSIONALS WHO WISH TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE COUNTRY’S LABOR MARKET BY WORKING IN AREAS OF NATIONAL INTEREST.

The EB-2 NIW (National Interest Waiver) visa serves exactly these professionals with outstanding experience and academic background as a pilot. This is a visa that grants the right to legal and permanent residence in the USA through a Green Card. In many cases, a foreign pilot can plead for the EB-2 NIW without even needing a job offer in the U.S., based solely on their qualifications.

This is just the first website i found out but there are many others who claim the same.

Is it a Scam or legit?
​​Thanks

Regards
AIM9X

Last edited by Senior Pilot; 23rd Sep 2021 at 10:00. Reason: URL whinge
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 03:04
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Possibly…

This application route, for EB2-NIW, has the potential to work. However, it consists of two separate parts. The National Interest Waiver (NIW), for which pilots might successfully petition, and separately the EB2.

EB visas typically require a specific job offer (ie a sponsor), and also labour certification. There are two exceptions, certain EB1 individuals (and I don't think many pilots would qualify), and the EB2-NIW. The NIW part allows you to 'self petition', and therefore does not require a job offer or labour certification. However, the petition would probably require a bit more than “here’s my ATP, I hear you are looking…”

The requirements for an EB2, are to hold an 'Advanced Degree' or to have ‘Exceptional Ability'. The latter may also be difficult to justify…

None of the above constitutes legal advice, but if you have a Masters degree or higher and $10k+ spare, give it a whirl.

https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the...reference-eb-1
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the...reference-eb-2

Good luck
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 14:10
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I'm really looking forward to this. I'm halfway through pilot training in the EU, and would like to move to the US asap. How long do you guys think this opportunity will last? I'll graduate in early 2023, and I already posess an advanced degree in aviation (partially obtained in the US)
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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 20:56
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Originally Posted by Chris_767 View Post
I'm really looking forward to this. I'm halfway through pilot training in the EU, and would like to move to the US asap. How long do you guys think this opportunity will last? I'll graduate in early 2023, and I already posess an advanced degree in aviation (partially obtained in the US)
A bachelor degree holder from UND couldn't satisfy this requirement with FAA ATP and 1500 hours on jet.

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Old 3rd Oct 2021, 23:43
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Originally Posted by lee_apromise View Post
A bachelor degree holder from UND couldn't satisfy this requirement with FAA ATP and 1500 hours on jet.
Yes, you need something higher than a bachelors, like a post-grad or masters. Advanced degree can be substituted by a bachelors and 5 years of work experience.
1500 jet hours is a year and a half at European airlines.

Anyways, I keep following the updates
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 19:30
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I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by “invading” European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce. One can blame the European airlines (or even the EU) for the steady race to the bottom, but in the end it is the pilots themselves who allowed it to happen.

I say this as a European with a Green Card since more than a decade back and who has refused to participate in the lousy European aviation market (Green Card or not I have never actually worked in Europe) due to the above. Too many pilots in euroland willing to sell their mother to stay flying all while just thinking about “me, me, me now” instead of “us and long term” which is the main difference in the mentality between (the majority of) European and US pilots. Any European pilot making the move across the pond better be ready to ditch that attitude real fast or you won’t make any friends in the US pilot group.

Ducking for cover…
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 19:33
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Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by ďinvadingĒ European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce. One can blame the European airlines (or even the EU) for the steady race to the bottom, but in the end it is the pilots themselves who allowed it to happen.

I say this as a European with a Green Card since more than a decade back and who has refused to participate in the lousy European aviation market (Green Card or not I have never actually worked in Europe) due to the above. Too many pilots in euroland willing to sell their mother to stay flying all while just thinking about ďme, me, me nowĒ instead of ďus and long termĒ which is the main difference in the mentality between (the majority of) European and US pilots. Any European pilot making the move across the pond better be ready to ditch that attitude real fast or you wonít make any friends in the US pilot group.

Ducking for coverÖ
Dont duck, youíre right.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 20:35
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Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
I am sure American pilots who have fought very hard for the last several years (couple of decades really) to get their compensation back to appropriate levels will be thrilled by “invading” European pilots willing to work for peanuts and subpar conditions diluting the US pilot workforce.
Pilots who come here from anywhere work for existing pay rates. For example, the E3 Aussies who come here don't work for less; they get the same rate as a guy born and raised in Iowa.

They don't negotiate for pay on an individual level (outside of some corporate or other job) so therefore don't have an opportunity to greatly influence pay levels one way or another. And there are too few of them in the Big Picture to have much of an effect in any form.

Now, should pilots as a profession stand together to influence pay ? Probably but they haven't so they won't. Too many unions, too many companies would require too much coordination.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 20:49
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Originally Posted by bafanguy View Post
Pilots who come here from anywhere work for existing pay rates. They don't negotiate for pay on an individual level (outside of some corporate or other job) so therefore don't have an opportunity to greatly influence pay levels one way or another. And there are too few of them in the Big Picture to have much of an effect in any form.
I donít disagree with the above, but what I am trying to tell those who do end up coming over is that they need to completely change their mindset and get with the program ASAP. They wonít be very successful if they donít as US pilots wonít think fondly of some of the stuff which has now become widely accepted over in Europe over the last couple of decades.

I would hope that those who actually do come over (should the above program actually work) are of the go getter type who, just like me, refuse to accept the way pilots have (again, allowed themselves) to be treated on the old continent.
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Old 4th Oct 2021, 22:33
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Originally Posted by FlyTCI View Post
I donít disagree with the above, but what I am trying to tell those who do end up coming over is that they need to completely change their mindset and get with the program ASAP.
TCI,

I understand. But all any expat coming to the USA can do is join the union and use their vote to elect reps who are dedicated to improving circumstances and vote against substandard contracts.

[Those without a union can only vote with their feet]

This is all an academic discussion because there won't be enough expats coming here to sway things one way or the other. I predict there won't be any invasion of EU pilots coming here. But if they do come, they might be the most fierce opponents of management exploitation because of their experience in the EU airline world. Maybe we need a few more of those ?

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Old 5th Oct 2021, 05:00
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Hey guys, I am also considering this option if it is true. However, I do have a few concerns. Firstly, I have 4000hrs as FO on A320 and an ICAO ATPL. If this info is true, would I have to start my career in the US with a regional and work my way up or do I have any chance with the lowcost or national carriers? And also do I need to convert my ATPL to FAA before I even consider going down this route?
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Old 5th Oct 2021, 06:20
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To add in what I know. I and a few friends have been looking into this EB2-NIW avenue and doing lots of research and homework on the topic. We have made contact with a few law firms and all seem to be on a similar page, or trying to jump onto the bandwagon here. Because the "pilots License" is now being considered a new addition, the answer to the question, How many successful Pilot cases has your firm had approved for NIW? Every firm had the same answer. None!
There are two ways of qualifying, the first one 99% of pilots won't qualify for and that is the Advanced Degree. An advanced degree means a masterís degree or its foreign equivalent or a baccalaureate or foreign equivalent degree plus 5 years of post-baccalaureate, progressive work experience in the field.
The second is where "some pilots" MIGHT stand a chance based on how it is written and that is in Exceptional ability individual. An exceptional ability individual is an individual who does not possess an advanced degree and meet three of the following criteria:
  • Official academic record showing that you have a degree, diploma, certificate, or similar award from a college, university, school, or other institution of learning relating to your area of exceptional ability
  • Letters documenting at least 10 years of full-time experience in your occupation
  • A license to practice your profession or certification for your profession or occupation
  • Evidence that you have commanded a salary or other remuneration for services that demonstrates your exceptional ability
  • Membership in a professional association(s)
  • Recognition for your achievements and significant contributions to your industry or field by your peers, government entities, professional or business organizations
  • Other comparable evidence of eligibility is also acceptable.
At this stage I see it as more of an experiment for pilots, and its not cheap. The average quotes for the NIW have been anywhere from $5k-$10K plus more IF the NIW is approved then its onto the next step. Do your homework, there are so many sharks out there that will take your money knowing you stand no chance.
Best of Luck to all.
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Old 5th Oct 2021, 11:20
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Thats the problem, I am not able to find any concrete information anywhere online or on the US Immigration/visa pages. Just a few law firms from youtube etc. I did forgot to mention that I do have a masters degree but it is in a non-aviation field and I do have work exp related to that field for 2 years. I dont know if that supports my case/eligibility critera
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Old 5th Oct 2021, 15:45
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Whether you’ll be able to bypass the “joy” of a regional gig, will simply be down to the state of the hiring environment and to a certain degree, luck. Having previous experience of the 121 world and US ops is always going to tick an extra box. For an Airline in the US, it’s one less area you’ll need training on and these days, time is money and no airline wants to spend more than they have to.

Flying a plane is flying a plane, the hardest part is the getting to the runway and then to the gate, after landing. It can, for some be like leaning another language and it can take you well outside the known and your comfort zone. For some, it’s much easier than it is for others. I’ve gone through training with former military guys and whilst outstanding aviators, the ground ops at a civilian US airport like ORD, has been a bit of a headf#ck for them. They’ve risen to the challenge superbly but it just took time to feel comfortable. I’m painting with a broad brush here but I think most would agree.

if you’re lucky enough to be granted the right to live and work here, simply apply to everyone and see what happens.
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Old 6th Oct 2021, 13:31
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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Flying a plane is flying a plane, the hardest part is the getting to the runway and then to the gate, after landing. It can, for some be like leaning another language and it can take you well outside the known and your comfort zone. For some, itís much easier than it is for others. Iíve gone through training with former military guys and whilst outstanding aviators, the ground ops at a civilian US airport like ORD, has been a bit of a headf#ck for them. Theyíve risen to the challenge superbly but it just took time to feel comfortable. Iím painting with a broad brush here but I think most would agree.
O'Hare. Yup, fully agree with that !
It is crazy. It is wild. Certainly outside of the confort zone, and thought to myself, I can really do without this ...

What's the story behind this eventual new development, if it happens to become reality ? The Regionals are getting that desperate that consideration is being given to this possibility ? Not enough Aussies available ?

About the FAA ATP. There seems to be several "knowledge areas". ATP (FAR 121) (ATM), ATP (FAR 135) (ATS), ATP (FAR 135) (ARA), etc, etc. There are ATPs for specific activities ? Is not the case the ATP covers everything ?
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Old 6th Oct 2021, 14:42
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For airplane pilots, unless you are transitioning from a Canadian license, there are just two ATP knowledge tests. The ATS for the single engine rating and the ATM for the multi rating. The ATS focuses more on part 135 rules and operations while the ATM is focused on part 121 and transport jets.

Last edited by MarkerInbound; 7th Oct 2021 at 17:24.
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Old 6th Oct 2021, 15:33
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Thanks for that !!!

Probably you meant to write the ATS (instead of the ATM) focuses more on Part 135 rules.

During the previous century (in the nineties) I obtained an FAA Aircraft Dispatcher (ADX) licence. Would that be of any help towards an ATP, or it's not the case ? In any case, it would be convenient to go through the whole updated database again, as it has been a while.
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Old 6th Oct 2021, 16:56
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Originally Posted by MarkerInbound View Post
For airplane pilots, unless you are transitioning from a Canadian license, there are just two ATP knowledge tests. The ATS for the single engine rating and the ATM for the multi rating. The ATM focuses more on part 135 rules and operations while the ATM is focused on part 121 and transport jets.
Unless itís changed, which may well be the case, you donít need to do a SE ride. You can just do the ME ride. I know Iíve both trained and done ME ATP check rides for foreign pilots who had no other FAA cert. Mind you, people still used rotary telephones back then.
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Old 6th Oct 2021, 22:05
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Originally Posted by furioussphinx View Post
Thats the problem, I am not able to find any concrete information anywhere online or on the US Immigration/visa pages. Just a few law firms from youtube...
I don't know anything about this visa stuff but could you make an appointment at a US embassy and get answers to your questions ?

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Old 6th Oct 2021, 23:29
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Originally Posted by awair View Post
EB visas typically require a specific job offer (ie a sponsor),
The above is key for such program become reality. Without the interest of local sponsors nothing will happen.
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