USA Pilot Shortage
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I think the GLOBAL pilot shortage is here to stay...the States and the EU will always cycle with ups and downs...but the global market is amazing. Plenty of folks from the regionals are going to CO, FedEx, UPS, SWA etc.
Just watched the BBC special report "Take Off" on the airline growth in India alone....wow!!!
Just watched the BBC special report "Take Off" on the airline growth in India alone....wow!!!
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I have many friends (Christians) who are well qualified FAA CFI, CFII and/or MEI. And they speak perfect Queen's English, Melayu, Hindi, Tamil, Mandarin and etc.
The problem is we are neither US Citizen nor US PR! They love to work in US, however, these US flying schools and clubs are unwilling to apply US work permit for them!
George Apostolopoulos, Chief Pilot in Sierra Academy of Aeronautics replied that they will not sponsor work permit for employment. And the main reason is 'troublesome'! They must be thinking that foreign instructors holding FAA instructor rating are terroists!
Shortage of flying instructors in US is an excuse. They are ways to solve! It all depends whether the US flying schools or clubs are willing to sponsor US work permit or not!
Please note: We are do not come from muslim country.
The problem is we are neither US Citizen nor US PR! They love to work in US, however, these US flying schools and clubs are unwilling to apply US work permit for them!
George Apostolopoulos, Chief Pilot in Sierra Academy of Aeronautics replied that they will not sponsor work permit for employment. And the main reason is 'troublesome'! They must be thinking that foreign instructors holding FAA instructor rating are terroists!
Shortage of flying instructors in US is an excuse. They are ways to solve! It all depends whether the US flying schools or clubs are willing to sponsor US work permit or not!
Please note: We are do not come from muslim country.
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not @ all an equal ballgame
as far as i know, all FAA or JAA lic. pilots can fly anywhere
ive been flying in quite a lot of countries now
meeting with FAA &/or JAA pilot's, in africa, asia you name the country!
but, when it comes to a ICAO lic. holder.........(like me)
your chances to get a job in USA or EU go down the drain
you need to be an EU or USA citizen as a minimum
so far Ireland is the only EU member accepting ICAO lic.
when it will be the time for an ICAO holder to go USA
apply for a job , & just fly out with the validation of his lic.
like everybody else does elsewhere
as far as i know, all FAA or JAA lic. pilots can fly anywhere
ive been flying in quite a lot of countries now
meeting with FAA &/or JAA pilot's, in africa, asia you name the country!
but, when it comes to a ICAO lic. holder.........(like me)
your chances to get a job in USA or EU go down the drain
you need to be an EU or USA citizen as a minimum
so far Ireland is the only EU member accepting ICAO lic.
when it will be the time for an ICAO holder to go USA
apply for a job , & just fly out with the validation of his lic.
like everybody else does elsewhere
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The regionals are struggling to find people because it's a pretty ****ty job. Many of us have gone on to other parts of the industry and I'm not just talking about major airlines and foreign carriers like Cathay and Emirates. Regional pilots have discovered that flying for Net Jets or another good fractional beats the hell out of regional flying. Regionals that used to be halfway palatable to fly for now suck mightily. Case in point - SkyWest. I have friends there with 400 hours time away from base and 10 days off thanks to a computerized bidding system that is used to make up for crew shortages. These are not junior people.
Corporate flying is attracting some regional pilots as well. A good corporate job can offer a better lifestyle than most majors.
The VLJ's will offer employment opportunties soon.
The regionals are in trouble. For them there is a pilot shortage. They built a business model based on unrealistic wage assumptions and now they can't find people.
In short there is no pilot shortage in the US. The good jobs have plenty of applicants. Do you hear Southwest complaining about lack of applicants. FedEx and UPS have no trouble recruiting. The only ones with a problem are bottom feeder regionals. Anyone with reasonably decent quals can go elsewhere. Why would someone want to put up with the abuses of working for a regional if they can make more and work less elsewhere. Plus you no longer have the mainline legacy carrier job carrot dangling in front of you. Work rules and compensation at some of the legacy carriers are a joke. They won't retain people like they used to.
Corporate flying is attracting some regional pilots as well. A good corporate job can offer a better lifestyle than most majors.
The VLJ's will offer employment opportunties soon.
The regionals are in trouble. For them there is a pilot shortage. They built a business model based on unrealistic wage assumptions and now they can't find people.
In short there is no pilot shortage in the US. The good jobs have plenty of applicants. Do you hear Southwest complaining about lack of applicants. FedEx and UPS have no trouble recruiting. The only ones with a problem are bottom feeder regionals. Anyone with reasonably decent quals can go elsewhere. Why would someone want to put up with the abuses of working for a regional if they can make more and work less elsewhere. Plus you no longer have the mainline legacy carrier job carrot dangling in front of you. Work rules and compensation at some of the legacy carriers are a joke. They won't retain people like they used to.
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NoFlow sums it up admirably... there's little evidence of a genuine shortage ... perusing the major job-listing web-sites... Avianation... Climbto350 etc over a few weeks you'll find that the only employers regularly re-running their ads are the regionals, part 135ers and night-freighters flying the piston prop and small turbo-prop a/c. These guys have had it cushy for so long paying joke money they're reluctant to wake up to the new realities.
Time for the Bean Counters to get the calculators out and then try to explain to the boss that the Lake House may have to wait while.
Time for the Bean Counters to get the calculators out and then try to explain to the boss that the Lake House may have to wait while.
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As I have mentioned in my earlier posts and I say it again. The pilot shortage that we are going to face is within regional airlines (First Officers), Part 135 operatores and CFI's. The major is not hurting now, but they will in the future.
When I started flying for 4 years ago we were about 140 students in my private pilot ground class and 18 instructors at the college. Last semester we only had 34 guys in the private pilot ground class and 8 instructor total. As you can see the number has been dercreasing. This is not only my school that had decreaesed numbers, several other schools in US I have been in touch with had the same problem.
The point I'm trying to make here is that not many youngsters In US want to be pilots anymore, due to the lack of moeny they are making and the money they have to spend to be a pilot. AND SUDDENLY WE HAVE THIS BOOOOM IN AVIATION IN US!!!!! THE DEMAND IS INCREASING AND NOT MANY PILOTS!!! If you walk in to a flight school this days the only students you see are Chineese or Indians!!! where are the US guys??
I'm aware that the pilot shortage has not reached the major airlines yet,,,but it will!!! Give it few years and you will see!!! Many major airline captains are at the age of 60 so you do the math!!!
good luck to you all
Amin
When I started flying for 4 years ago we were about 140 students in my private pilot ground class and 18 instructors at the college. Last semester we only had 34 guys in the private pilot ground class and 8 instructor total. As you can see the number has been dercreasing. This is not only my school that had decreaesed numbers, several other schools in US I have been in touch with had the same problem.
The point I'm trying to make here is that not many youngsters In US want to be pilots anymore, due to the lack of moeny they are making and the money they have to spend to be a pilot. AND SUDDENLY WE HAVE THIS BOOOOM IN AVIATION IN US!!!!! THE DEMAND IS INCREASING AND NOT MANY PILOTS!!! If you walk in to a flight school this days the only students you see are Chineese or Indians!!! where are the US guys??
I'm aware that the pilot shortage has not reached the major airlines yet,,,but it will!!! Give it few years and you will see!!! Many major airline captains are at the age of 60 so you do the math!!!
good luck to you all
Amin
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Lot's of people are getting calls from, CAL, JetBlue, SWA, FedEx and UPS... Not a pilot shortage? I got hired to fly heavy freighters ON THE SPOT this past winter because of expansion and people were moving on to better paying companies.
Every market is expanding...
Fractionals
ACMI Freight
Regionals
LCC's
Not to mention Delta, CAL FedEx and UPS are still hiring...
And...for once...I'm trying to be positive!!!
Every market is expanding...
Fractionals
ACMI Freight
Regionals
LCC's
Not to mention Delta, CAL FedEx and UPS are still hiring...
And...for once...I'm trying to be positive!!!
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ThornyCactus,
It is not that the schools/CFI thinks that you are a terrorists because you are not an US citizen. The bigger problem is the limitation of H1B seats and the the eligibility requirements for the same.
1) There are only 65,000 H1Bs every year. And that includes all the IT, Medical, Education folks as well. Every year hundreds of thousands of people apply for work authorisation visa. This year, they are anticipating to reach 65000 application by April 2nd (the visas are awarded in October). So this year USCIS has decided to go with the lottery system. So everyone has an equal chance.
2) The USCIS does not recognise the CFI job as requiring H1b. Remember the school will have to advertise for an American before they can sponsor for visa.
3) All applicants for H1B must be at least undergraduates or hold an equivalent undergraduate doploma.
4) To do all the paper work, schools will have to hire lawyer, advertise in the local news papers and then go through the motions. All this takes about 6 months of preparation and anywhere between 4-10 thousand US$.
Now you tell me, why would a school go through all the hassle and spend all this cash when they can wait for a few months and hope to hire a local CFI!!!!!
It is not that the schools/CFI thinks that you are a terrorists because you are not an US citizen. The bigger problem is the limitation of H1B seats and the the eligibility requirements for the same.
1) There are only 65,000 H1Bs every year. And that includes all the IT, Medical, Education folks as well. Every year hundreds of thousands of people apply for work authorisation visa. This year, they are anticipating to reach 65000 application by April 2nd (the visas are awarded in October). So this year USCIS has decided to go with the lottery system. So everyone has an equal chance.
2) The USCIS does not recognise the CFI job as requiring H1b. Remember the school will have to advertise for an American before they can sponsor for visa.
3) All applicants for H1B must be at least undergraduates or hold an equivalent undergraduate doploma.
4) To do all the paper work, schools will have to hire lawyer, advertise in the local news papers and then go through the motions. All this takes about 6 months of preparation and anywhere between 4-10 thousand US$.
Now you tell me, why would a school go through all the hassle and spend all this cash when they can wait for a few months and hope to hire a local CFI!!!!!
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To DesiPilot,
Thank you for enlightening me! You have your points right!
Since the schools are facing FI shortage, I am just suggesting a way whereby foreign FI can be extremely helpful. There are many advantages for securing foreign FI.
I suppose you knew countries like India’s, China’s and Taiwan’s aviation market are ‘booming’. Within 10 years down the road, there are lots of foreign students seeking aviation jobs. Perhaps, you should understand why the economic of certain countries are so good, the reasons are, they are opening to all money-making ideas, accepting foreign talents into their countries and making their nation more prosperous!
Let’s do a simple mathematical model of how to capture a big market:
100 wealthy Taiwanese students, 100 filthy rich Chinese Mainlanders students (not proficiency in English) as well as 100 rich Indian students are seeking flight training in US, probably the Indians will stay in US for their flight training.
Whereas for the 200 potential Taiwanese and Mainlander Chinese students might seek training elsewhere (out of US) due to language barrier. The bad thing for US is, these students are going to generate handsome revenue to another country!
If the schools really want to make money, the foreign FI (Mandarin speaking) will be a main attraction to these Mandarin speaking students. I am not joking! I met lots of Taiwanese students in US, and they were having a hard time during flying lesson. In fact, I recommended them to other countries where they can get appropriate lesson conducted in both English and Mandarin concurrently.
Yes, I do agree the process of HIB VISA application is troublesome and costly. Now, if the flying schools are willing to sort out the foreign flying instructor issue (right in the beginning) and employ foreign instructors, there is no doubt to get/attract these wealthy rich Chinese speaking students to the flying school!
Please note: Students are paying thousands and thousands of money to the school and comparing to a school forking out a few thousands on a H1B VSIA for a foreign instructor and bonding him for 3 to 6 years. The sum of money invested on a foreign FI is just only a tip of the ice-berg!!!
Please do not forget that H1B VISA (just only a few thousands) for foreign FI is a long term investment for the school and these foreign FI will going to attract and taking care of these “super” rich students. If these rich foreign students are happy and well taken care-of in the school, they might even consider investing in the flying school too! Please do not underestimate the financial capabilities of these Chinese, Taiwanese or Indians students!
This is a business tactic which Mr. Bill Clinton presented this idea on his speech years ago! This idea works!
Real Story 1
There was a real life account that I have experienced with a Indian friend. Whose dad was impressed by the teaching of an Indian CFI. So, his dad bought a few Diamond-twins planes for the flying school!
Real Story 2
I have a Thai-Chinese friend working in Australia as a flying instructor. You guess, that particular flying school in Australia is almost filled with rich Thais!
I have lots more stories to share but that’s enough to share with you the above two stories.
Do not blame it on USCIS. It is a lame excuse. The final decision is still lies on the school’s management whether will they sponsor H1B VISA or not. They can definitely do it if they want to!
Before I end here, my philosophy for you today is: “small money rolls out, whilst big money coming on your way!”. That is one main philosophy for successful Chinese millionaire today!
Thank you for enlightening me! You have your points right!
Since the schools are facing FI shortage, I am just suggesting a way whereby foreign FI can be extremely helpful. There are many advantages for securing foreign FI.
I suppose you knew countries like India’s, China’s and Taiwan’s aviation market are ‘booming’. Within 10 years down the road, there are lots of foreign students seeking aviation jobs. Perhaps, you should understand why the economic of certain countries are so good, the reasons are, they are opening to all money-making ideas, accepting foreign talents into their countries and making their nation more prosperous!
Let’s do a simple mathematical model of how to capture a big market:
100 wealthy Taiwanese students, 100 filthy rich Chinese Mainlanders students (not proficiency in English) as well as 100 rich Indian students are seeking flight training in US, probably the Indians will stay in US for their flight training.
Whereas for the 200 potential Taiwanese and Mainlander Chinese students might seek training elsewhere (out of US) due to language barrier. The bad thing for US is, these students are going to generate handsome revenue to another country!
If the schools really want to make money, the foreign FI (Mandarin speaking) will be a main attraction to these Mandarin speaking students. I am not joking! I met lots of Taiwanese students in US, and they were having a hard time during flying lesson. In fact, I recommended them to other countries where they can get appropriate lesson conducted in both English and Mandarin concurrently.
Yes, I do agree the process of HIB VISA application is troublesome and costly. Now, if the flying schools are willing to sort out the foreign flying instructor issue (right in the beginning) and employ foreign instructors, there is no doubt to get/attract these wealthy rich Chinese speaking students to the flying school!
Please note: Students are paying thousands and thousands of money to the school and comparing to a school forking out a few thousands on a H1B VSIA for a foreign instructor and bonding him for 3 to 6 years. The sum of money invested on a foreign FI is just only a tip of the ice-berg!!!
Please do not forget that H1B VISA (just only a few thousands) for foreign FI is a long term investment for the school and these foreign FI will going to attract and taking care of these “super” rich students. If these rich foreign students are happy and well taken care-of in the school, they might even consider investing in the flying school too! Please do not underestimate the financial capabilities of these Chinese, Taiwanese or Indians students!
This is a business tactic which Mr. Bill Clinton presented this idea on his speech years ago! This idea works!
Real Story 1
There was a real life account that I have experienced with a Indian friend. Whose dad was impressed by the teaching of an Indian CFI. So, his dad bought a few Diamond-twins planes for the flying school!
Real Story 2
I have a Thai-Chinese friend working in Australia as a flying instructor. You guess, that particular flying school in Australia is almost filled with rich Thais!
I have lots more stories to share but that’s enough to share with you the above two stories.
Do not blame it on USCIS. It is a lame excuse.
The final decision is still lies on the school’s management whether will they sponsor H1B VISA or not. They can definitely do it if they want to!Before I end here, my philosophy for you today is: “small money rolls out, whilst big money coming on your way!”. That is one main philosophy for successful Chinese millionaire today!
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Foreign language speaking FIs are not as valuable as they once used to be.
Due to the new ICAO English Language Proficiency Regulations, all ICAO countries are required to have aircrew, ATC and Aviation Operatives that can speak English to a minimum of 'ICAO Level 4 - Operational'.
If you want to have a UK RT licence, you will need to reach 'Level 6 - Expert'. This is the level that China is aiming for at this time and they are making great progress thanks to them taking the initiative and hiring in Aviation English experts for training purposes.
I have been in a position to advise Asian and Indian flight students about this requirement and it is changing how they make their choices for training.
Sponsored cadets are now being tested for this requirement by numerous airlines in Asia and my advice to any of you planning to take either route is to invest three to six months of your time in improving your language skills, otherwise you may find yourself with a shiny new airline transport pilot's licence and not enough English language radiotelephony skills to be employed by anyone.
Also remember that there is an English Language Level requirement for a flight training visa in the US.....check your I-20 form and you will see it. It says something like "Does the student fulfil the English language requirements for this course?".
Your school may put "yes" on the form, but if the Border Patrol guy has any doubts, he'll refer your visa application. Remember, even though you have an M1 in your passport and arrive at the US port of entry - you can still be turned away or reffered to the Immigration Officials at Passport Control if there are any doubts as to your ability to communicate.
My advice - do it correctly. Get proficient in English, you will be better at understanding the 'big picture' at airports and you'll be adding to the safety of yourself and others - and as a pilot who has shared the skies of Florida with groups of sponsored students with deplorable levels of Aviation English, you'll be making life easier for us all.
It's at the critical points where it really counts. For example, an aborted takeoff of a G5 in Florida; foreign student pilot on final is told "Go around" by the tower.
The response. "Ground, go ahead"
Due to the new ICAO English Language Proficiency Regulations, all ICAO countries are required to have aircrew, ATC and Aviation Operatives that can speak English to a minimum of 'ICAO Level 4 - Operational'.
If you want to have a UK RT licence, you will need to reach 'Level 6 - Expert'. This is the level that China is aiming for at this time and they are making great progress thanks to them taking the initiative and hiring in Aviation English experts for training purposes.
I have been in a position to advise Asian and Indian flight students about this requirement and it is changing how they make their choices for training.
Sponsored cadets are now being tested for this requirement by numerous airlines in Asia and my advice to any of you planning to take either route is to invest three to six months of your time in improving your language skills, otherwise you may find yourself with a shiny new airline transport pilot's licence and not enough English language radiotelephony skills to be employed by anyone.
Also remember that there is an English Language Level requirement for a flight training visa in the US.....check your I-20 form and you will see it. It says something like "Does the student fulfil the English language requirements for this course?".
Your school may put "yes" on the form, but if the Border Patrol guy has any doubts, he'll refer your visa application. Remember, even though you have an M1 in your passport and arrive at the US port of entry - you can still be turned away or reffered to the Immigration Officials at Passport Control if there are any doubts as to your ability to communicate.
My advice - do it correctly. Get proficient in English, you will be better at understanding the 'big picture' at airports and you'll be adding to the safety of yourself and others - and as a pilot who has shared the skies of Florida with groups of sponsored students with deplorable levels of Aviation English, you'll be making life easier for us all.
It's at the critical points where it really counts. For example, an aborted takeoff of a G5 in Florida; foreign student pilot on final is told "Go around" by the tower.
The response. "Ground, go ahead"
Last edited by Farrell; 30th Mar 2007 at 00:00.
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Please read this
Please ladies and gentelman take your time and read this!!! This is from an article I saw today.
PASSENGER PLANES SIT IDLE BECAUSE NO PILOTS WANT TO FLY THEM.
PILOT SHORTAGE is a CAUSE for change.
What is happening in the Airline Industry? There are no pilots to fly those multi-million dollar airplanes. Pilots, including wannabe pilots, are changing careers. They are not choosing a professional flying career because economically it is not feasible.
Airline Transport Pilot Certificates issued from 1996 – 2005 have steadily declined from about 7,500 a year to 4,750 in 2005 an almost 40% decrease in qualified Captains. This is creating a Qualified Airline Pilot shortage, and a few things can happen.
WHAT AIRLINES WILL NOT DO
Pay higher salaries.
As a passenger, I was a little discouraged to know that my Captain, First Officer and Flight attendants (Who are responsible for my life from Point A to Point B) are worth only a few sheckles of the ticket price I paid. That’s right, they are paid $18.00-$20.00/hr. And to make matters worse, they are restricted by the FAA to a maximum of 1,000 of work a year. Many can legally apply for food stamps.
Imagine if air commerce stopped in the US for a week or even two. It did with the unfortunate surroundings of 9/11. However, the demand for air flight also dropped dramatically surrounding that incident. Demand actually dropped lower than supply, putting carriers out of business. Now imagine if Demand remained the same and the supply (meaning there were no pilots to fly those planes) ended for two weeks. Eventually, airlines would pay higher salaries, benefits, etc. in order to take advantage of the increasing demand.
WHAT AIRLINES WILL TRY TO DO
1) The airlines will continue to reduce costs anyway possible. They will spend money on lobbyist groups in Washington D.C. to relax rule making against them. The current Jet Blue debacle begs a “Passenger Bill of Rights.” This has the airlines up in arms. They DO NOT want to be restricted on how to operate. They also do not want to be held accountable for their failures.
In addition, the airlines are currently lobbying for the General Aviation user fee policy. The airlines want to charge the GA pilot thousands of dollars a year to use weather service, fly in the airspace system, land at airports, etc. The airlines are paying the majority now, but that may soon pass to the GA enthusiast.
What does that mean in the future? Fewer pilots for the airlines due to less pilot starts because of prohibitively high costs to entry. This decision by the airlines will only compound their “pilot shortage” problems, cost problems, efficiency problems, management problems, etc.
2) Airlines will reduce minimums. Pilot minimums will become lower and lower until the new SIC will sit right seat in a 250 person passenger jet with only 250 hours of experience. This individual will have been trained to so-called airline standards; however, he/she will have never soloed in ANY plane. It’s being proposed abroad because of the lack of numbers of qualified pilots to fill vacancies.
The Airlines will do this to increase supply of (LOW HOURLY WAGE) accepting pilots. There are a lot more pilots who have under 1,000 hours willing to work for $18-$20/hour vs. 3,000+ hour pilots willing to work for those type of minimum wages.
The airlines are forced to do this, because they do not want to increase wages for their frontline employees, those responsible for the safety of millions of air travelers yearly. They are trying to entice pilots with anything except respectable salaries. Here are just some examples.
American Eagle (American Airline feeder) : Reduced minimums to 850 hours of Total Time (TT) and is now allowing the pilot candidate to choose their domicile. (no cost to Eagle)
SkyWest (United Express, Delta Connection and Midwest feeder): Just lowered their minimums to 850 TT, now pay for training, lodging and supply uniforms
Mesa (United Express, Delta Connection, and US Airways/America West feeder): Lowered their minimums to 500 TT and are offering $5,000 bonus to those pilots with United Express experience.
Republic Airlines (Frontier, American Connection, Continental Express, Delta Connection, United Express and US Airways Express): Offering a $2,500 bonus to new hires after passing Initial Operating Experience (IOE) if one has regional jet experience. They need over 1,000 pilots this year.
Trans States Airlines (American Connection, US Airways and United Express): They have begun finally paying for lodging while at training and have offered a small salary based on 60 hours a month, though training is over 120 hours per month.
Express Jet (Continental feeder): Hiring at 600 TT and rapid upgrades.
3). Airlines will be forced to hire and retain “SUBPAR” Employees. Those that lack the skill, quality, efficiency and know-how of what it takes to be in the airline business. They will force themselves to not “Fire” or “Terminate” employment of those in violation of rules or policies. They can’t afford to eliminate workers, because they are so short staffed, and cannot fill vacancies with current employee policies, wage contracts, etc. This leads to settling for marginal performance which will begin the complete degradation of the airline industry and experience in the United States.
4) Airlines will try to consolidate and/or split. They will do this to
a) Ensure favorable long term contracts. (SkyWest merger with ASA) and to reduce air transport supply in the market place (thus pseudo increasing the number of pilots available to fly the fewer planes). Airlines will then be able to charge higher fees for the increased demand that is present. However, if they are too aggressive too much consolidation could create transportation substitution alternatives. (Bus, train, private planes, etc.)
b) Cut costs. They will try starting new companies in order to bypass labor union strangleholds against a company lowering wages (Go Jets/Trans States and Mesaba/NWA/Compass Airlines to name a few).
OVERSEES COMPETITION
Many oversees airlines are hiring US pilots at far greater wages, they include free housing, no taxes, allowance for a car, etc. It's happening already. And U.S Airlines are NOT reacting; they are not going on the offensive to retain pilots with better wages, QOL, benefits, etc. They are trying to trim fat where fat doesn't exist, change regulations, merge, and do all sorts of other things instead paying an acceptable wage and focus on GROWING the business.
Right now US airlines are trying to keep the business that they have vs. concentrating on setting themselves apart from the others. These oversees airlines are smart. They see this and are taking advantage of an industry that is broken. This could lead to economic disruption in the US.
It’s ironic. US companies have been outsourcing cheap labor in foreign markets for decades; now these foreign markets are employing our skilled labor at far greater compensation than can be obtained in the United States.
WHAT PILOTS MAY, WILL or SHOULD DO
Leave the Industry or Country. Massive pilot fleeing helps to reduce supply of those able to operate planes. Captains, both Junior and Senior will flee to where their time invested will provide them with a greater dollar reward and better QOL. As Captains flee, FO’s will welcome the short term increase in salary until they feel compelled to leave as well. It’s happening already in the industry. If the economies of scale are greater and the opportunity cost is lower for NOT being a pilot, an outflow will happen causing massive dollars to be lost by airlines not being able to provide enough supply for demand. The Pilot’s unwillingness to settle for poverty wage will eventually force airlines to 1) Pay more or 2) Reduce qualifications or 3) Go out of business.
Imagine if airlines paid $55/hr to a 1st year FO, $70 for his/her 2nd year, etc. You would get more qualified, skilled and seasoned pilots. Pilots might consider holding out to work for a certain airline, and may even choose to stay with a company long term, thus reducing continuous training costs for the airlines and maximizing employee profitability.
WHAT THE PUBLIC WILL DO
The public will continue to fly. The public stops flying when cost becomes to probative or when SAFETY is compromised (like 9/11). Should any of these two scenarios happen, the public will choose to fly less, consider alternative transportation methods or not fly at all. When this happens the U.S.A will take a severe hit to economic growth. The U.S relies on the transportation industry to move goods and services that create jobs which in turn keeps the economy rolling along. If and when that stops, something has to start it rolling again. (Pilots Wanted signs will appear)
WHAT THE U.S GOVT. WILL DO
If the airlines fail to entice pilots to work through higher salaries, QOL, benefits, pensions etc., you can bet that the govt. will mandate to airlines to provide MINIMUM salaries for pilots OR they will provide supplemental assistance (subsidies) to companies or pilot groups in order restore transportation and promote the “economic need, welfare and desire” for the pilot/individual to choose a career in aviation.
1) The government has already guaranteed airline pensions. They bailed out the airlines because the airlines are incapable to bail themselves out.
2) The airline lobby group is so strong that they just relaxed the pilot age requirement from 60 to 65. Here is a very current real time example of how Govt. is getting involved today. This will offset the pilot shortage by about 3,800 over the next 5 years. Just a small amount, but enough to cause a slight worry for all on how strong the airline lobby is.
3) In addition, the FAA needs to hire over 15,000 controllers during the next 8-10 years. The starting salary for new controllers is greater than those of airline pilots and the benefits package is far superior to any airline. For many, a choice in controlling may outweigh what the choice of being a pilot. http://www.thetracon.com/atcjobs.htm
WHAT THE NEWS MEDIA COULD DO
The news media might do well spending more time talking about potential outcomes of a “Pilot shortage” and “Low Wages” as well as the “Severe Safety Concerns” of these Low Time pilots with extremely new decision making skills.
Many don't know that their "newbie" First Officer might be an 850 hr Total Time 50 hr Multi-engine pilot, who only first saw the technologically advanced Jet Cockpit Glass display only 3 weeks prior and whose longest x-ctry trip was 250 nm in a Cessna 172. Imagine, if they knew this and demanded that qualifications were higher for airline pilots.
In addition, the public assumes pilots are well paid. They don't know that many pilots NEED to have part-time jobs to supplement their income. The public doesn’t know that many pilots are too tired to fly because they have to work extra jobs. The public doesn’t know they are at risk.
Pilots and the Airlines know what conditions are currently like, and how those conditions affect each. However, the public and government don’t know or care at this point, because everything is moving along smoothly. That is because it isn’t an issue for them now. It is only an issue when it affects them OR when they know it MIGHT affect them. We now have the recent Jet Blue debacle showcased by the media. The public (consumer) is now demanding change.
PASSENGER PLANES SIT IDLE BECAUSE NO PILOTS WANT TO FLY THEM.
PILOT SHORTAGE is a CAUSE for change.
What is happening in the Airline Industry? There are no pilots to fly those multi-million dollar airplanes. Pilots, including wannabe pilots, are changing careers. They are not choosing a professional flying career because economically it is not feasible.
Airline Transport Pilot Certificates issued from 1996 – 2005 have steadily declined from about 7,500 a year to 4,750 in 2005 an almost 40% decrease in qualified Captains. This is creating a Qualified Airline Pilot shortage, and a few things can happen.
WHAT AIRLINES WILL NOT DO
Pay higher salaries.
As a passenger, I was a little discouraged to know that my Captain, First Officer and Flight attendants (Who are responsible for my life from Point A to Point B) are worth only a few sheckles of the ticket price I paid. That’s right, they are paid $18.00-$20.00/hr. And to make matters worse, they are restricted by the FAA to a maximum of 1,000 of work a year. Many can legally apply for food stamps.
Imagine if air commerce stopped in the US for a week or even two. It did with the unfortunate surroundings of 9/11. However, the demand for air flight also dropped dramatically surrounding that incident. Demand actually dropped lower than supply, putting carriers out of business. Now imagine if Demand remained the same and the supply (meaning there were no pilots to fly those planes) ended for two weeks. Eventually, airlines would pay higher salaries, benefits, etc. in order to take advantage of the increasing demand.
WHAT AIRLINES WILL TRY TO DO
1) The airlines will continue to reduce costs anyway possible. They will spend money on lobbyist groups in Washington D.C. to relax rule making against them. The current Jet Blue debacle begs a “Passenger Bill of Rights.” This has the airlines up in arms. They DO NOT want to be restricted on how to operate. They also do not want to be held accountable for their failures.
In addition, the airlines are currently lobbying for the General Aviation user fee policy. The airlines want to charge the GA pilot thousands of dollars a year to use weather service, fly in the airspace system, land at airports, etc. The airlines are paying the majority now, but that may soon pass to the GA enthusiast.
What does that mean in the future? Fewer pilots for the airlines due to less pilot starts because of prohibitively high costs to entry. This decision by the airlines will only compound their “pilot shortage” problems, cost problems, efficiency problems, management problems, etc.
2) Airlines will reduce minimums. Pilot minimums will become lower and lower until the new SIC will sit right seat in a 250 person passenger jet with only 250 hours of experience. This individual will have been trained to so-called airline standards; however, he/she will have never soloed in ANY plane. It’s being proposed abroad because of the lack of numbers of qualified pilots to fill vacancies.
The Airlines will do this to increase supply of (LOW HOURLY WAGE) accepting pilots. There are a lot more pilots who have under 1,000 hours willing to work for $18-$20/hour vs. 3,000+ hour pilots willing to work for those type of minimum wages.
The airlines are forced to do this, because they do not want to increase wages for their frontline employees, those responsible for the safety of millions of air travelers yearly. They are trying to entice pilots with anything except respectable salaries. Here are just some examples.
American Eagle (American Airline feeder) : Reduced minimums to 850 hours of Total Time (TT) and is now allowing the pilot candidate to choose their domicile. (no cost to Eagle)
SkyWest (United Express, Delta Connection and Midwest feeder): Just lowered their minimums to 850 TT, now pay for training, lodging and supply uniforms
Mesa (United Express, Delta Connection, and US Airways/America West feeder): Lowered their minimums to 500 TT and are offering $5,000 bonus to those pilots with United Express experience.
Republic Airlines (Frontier, American Connection, Continental Express, Delta Connection, United Express and US Airways Express): Offering a $2,500 bonus to new hires after passing Initial Operating Experience (IOE) if one has regional jet experience. They need over 1,000 pilots this year.
Trans States Airlines (American Connection, US Airways and United Express): They have begun finally paying for lodging while at training and have offered a small salary based on 60 hours a month, though training is over 120 hours per month.
Express Jet (Continental feeder): Hiring at 600 TT and rapid upgrades.
3). Airlines will be forced to hire and retain “SUBPAR” Employees. Those that lack the skill, quality, efficiency and know-how of what it takes to be in the airline business. They will force themselves to not “Fire” or “Terminate” employment of those in violation of rules or policies. They can’t afford to eliminate workers, because they are so short staffed, and cannot fill vacancies with current employee policies, wage contracts, etc. This leads to settling for marginal performance which will begin the complete degradation of the airline industry and experience in the United States.
4) Airlines will try to consolidate and/or split. They will do this to
a) Ensure favorable long term contracts. (SkyWest merger with ASA) and to reduce air transport supply in the market place (thus pseudo increasing the number of pilots available to fly the fewer planes). Airlines will then be able to charge higher fees for the increased demand that is present. However, if they are too aggressive too much consolidation could create transportation substitution alternatives. (Bus, train, private planes, etc.)
b) Cut costs. They will try starting new companies in order to bypass labor union strangleholds against a company lowering wages (Go Jets/Trans States and Mesaba/NWA/Compass Airlines to name a few).
OVERSEES COMPETITION
Many oversees airlines are hiring US pilots at far greater wages, they include free housing, no taxes, allowance for a car, etc. It's happening already. And U.S Airlines are NOT reacting; they are not going on the offensive to retain pilots with better wages, QOL, benefits, etc. They are trying to trim fat where fat doesn't exist, change regulations, merge, and do all sorts of other things instead paying an acceptable wage and focus on GROWING the business.
Right now US airlines are trying to keep the business that they have vs. concentrating on setting themselves apart from the others. These oversees airlines are smart. They see this and are taking advantage of an industry that is broken. This could lead to economic disruption in the US.
It’s ironic. US companies have been outsourcing cheap labor in foreign markets for decades; now these foreign markets are employing our skilled labor at far greater compensation than can be obtained in the United States.
WHAT PILOTS MAY, WILL or SHOULD DO
Leave the Industry or Country. Massive pilot fleeing helps to reduce supply of those able to operate planes. Captains, both Junior and Senior will flee to where their time invested will provide them with a greater dollar reward and better QOL. As Captains flee, FO’s will welcome the short term increase in salary until they feel compelled to leave as well. It’s happening already in the industry. If the economies of scale are greater and the opportunity cost is lower for NOT being a pilot, an outflow will happen causing massive dollars to be lost by airlines not being able to provide enough supply for demand. The Pilot’s unwillingness to settle for poverty wage will eventually force airlines to 1) Pay more or 2) Reduce qualifications or 3) Go out of business.
Imagine if airlines paid $55/hr to a 1st year FO, $70 for his/her 2nd year, etc. You would get more qualified, skilled and seasoned pilots. Pilots might consider holding out to work for a certain airline, and may even choose to stay with a company long term, thus reducing continuous training costs for the airlines and maximizing employee profitability.
WHAT THE PUBLIC WILL DO
The public will continue to fly. The public stops flying when cost becomes to probative or when SAFETY is compromised (like 9/11). Should any of these two scenarios happen, the public will choose to fly less, consider alternative transportation methods or not fly at all. When this happens the U.S.A will take a severe hit to economic growth. The U.S relies on the transportation industry to move goods and services that create jobs which in turn keeps the economy rolling along. If and when that stops, something has to start it rolling again. (Pilots Wanted signs will appear)
WHAT THE U.S GOVT. WILL DO
If the airlines fail to entice pilots to work through higher salaries, QOL, benefits, pensions etc., you can bet that the govt. will mandate to airlines to provide MINIMUM salaries for pilots OR they will provide supplemental assistance (subsidies) to companies or pilot groups in order restore transportation and promote the “economic need, welfare and desire” for the pilot/individual to choose a career in aviation.
1) The government has already guaranteed airline pensions. They bailed out the airlines because the airlines are incapable to bail themselves out.
2) The airline lobby group is so strong that they just relaxed the pilot age requirement from 60 to 65. Here is a very current real time example of how Govt. is getting involved today. This will offset the pilot shortage by about 3,800 over the next 5 years. Just a small amount, but enough to cause a slight worry for all on how strong the airline lobby is.
3) In addition, the FAA needs to hire over 15,000 controllers during the next 8-10 years. The starting salary for new controllers is greater than those of airline pilots and the benefits package is far superior to any airline. For many, a choice in controlling may outweigh what the choice of being a pilot. http://www.thetracon.com/atcjobs.htm
WHAT THE NEWS MEDIA COULD DO
The news media might do well spending more time talking about potential outcomes of a “Pilot shortage” and “Low Wages” as well as the “Severe Safety Concerns” of these Low Time pilots with extremely new decision making skills.
Many don't know that their "newbie" First Officer might be an 850 hr Total Time 50 hr Multi-engine pilot, who only first saw the technologically advanced Jet Cockpit Glass display only 3 weeks prior and whose longest x-ctry trip was 250 nm in a Cessna 172. Imagine, if they knew this and demanded that qualifications were higher for airline pilots.
In addition, the public assumes pilots are well paid. They don't know that many pilots NEED to have part-time jobs to supplement their income. The public doesn’t know that many pilots are too tired to fly because they have to work extra jobs. The public doesn’t know they are at risk.
Pilots and the Airlines know what conditions are currently like, and how those conditions affect each. However, the public and government don’t know or care at this point, because everything is moving along smoothly. That is because it isn’t an issue for them now. It is only an issue when it affects them OR when they know it MIGHT affect them. We now have the recent Jet Blue debacle showcased by the media. The public (consumer) is now demanding change.
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Am I being overly simplistic in suggesting a relatively straightforward solution to this dilema... at least in part ?
Put the bl**dy fares up !
Why should people expect to go coast to coast or trans-atlantic for a few hundred dollars... ? raise the cost of a ticket... fewer people will fly, fewer costs to the airlines (inc fewer pilots) ... better standards of service and comfort to those who do fly... less hassle at check-in and security gates, better salaries for airline staff ( inc pilots ) better standards of safety...
Let the public pay for what it wants.. who knows... flying as a passenger might even become pleasurable again. In the terminal I might feel less like I've become lost in a trailer park and on the aircraft I might not feel as though I've mistakenly boarded a greyhound bus.
Put the bl**dy fares up !
Why should people expect to go coast to coast or trans-atlantic for a few hundred dollars... ? raise the cost of a ticket... fewer people will fly, fewer costs to the airlines (inc fewer pilots) ... better standards of service and comfort to those who do fly... less hassle at check-in and security gates, better salaries for airline staff ( inc pilots ) better standards of safety...
Let the public pay for what it wants.. who knows... flying as a passenger might even become pleasurable again. In the terminal I might feel less like I've become lost in a trailer park and on the aircraft I might not feel as though I've mistakenly boarded a greyhound bus.
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Trend In Aviation
To Farrell,
My previous message was implying that foreign students are comfortable and looking forward to train with instructors that have the same naïve language as theirs.
I have a Mainlander Chinese friend who scored ‘A1’ for his General Paper in GCE ‘A’ Level. He is so used to Mandarin and he even chosen a flying school in Australia that has a Mandarin speaking instructor! Lots of his Mainlander Chinese cohorts were there too! Simply because the selling point of the school is using a Mandarin speaking instructor to help them in their flying lesson.
Yes, I agree with you that English proficiency is a must in aviation especially flying. But…who cares!
There are many aviators flying in India are using Hindi, flying in Indonesia using Bahasa Indonesian, flying in China using Mandarin! Who really cares! If you can demonstrate the safety of flying, the authority doesn’t going to jump on you! In fact, if you speak perfect English and showing-off your power in your English language during communication in the air, you will be most unwelcomed and you are causing a big stir in the control tower and flyers in these countries!
I met a few Taiwanese guys who speak ‘lousy’ English and could have some problems in understanding. You know what? The airlines in Taiwan absorbed them! Not because of their inproficiency in English!
Let me gives you a case-study
Put yourself in the shoe as a basic flyer learning to fly. Supposedly, a Russian and an American flying instructor (both are equally good in teaching, except the Russian’s English is not on par with you) for you to choose, which one will you take?
If the Mainlander Chinese and Taiwanese are able to get their professional licence, and airlines are accepting them, then who cares?! These rich chaps have their right to choose their own flying instructor, afterall they are paying lots of money!
My previous message was implying that foreign students are comfortable and looking forward to train with instructors that have the same naïve language as theirs.
I have a Mainlander Chinese friend who scored ‘A1’ for his General Paper in GCE ‘A’ Level. He is so used to Mandarin and he even chosen a flying school in Australia that has a Mandarin speaking instructor! Lots of his Mainlander Chinese cohorts were there too! Simply because the selling point of the school is using a Mandarin speaking instructor to help them in their flying lesson.
Yes, I agree with you that English proficiency is a must in aviation especially flying. But…who cares!
There are many aviators flying in India are using Hindi, flying in Indonesia using Bahasa Indonesian, flying in China using Mandarin! Who really cares! If you can demonstrate the safety of flying, the authority doesn’t going to jump on you! In fact, if you speak perfect English and showing-off your power in your English language during communication in the air, you will be most unwelcomed and you are causing a big stir in the control tower and flyers in these countries!
I met a few Taiwanese guys who speak ‘lousy’ English and could have some problems in understanding. You know what? The airlines in Taiwan absorbed them! Not because of their inproficiency in English!
Let me gives you a case-study
Put yourself in the shoe as a basic flyer learning to fly. Supposedly, a Russian and an American flying instructor (both are equally good in teaching, except the Russian’s English is not on par with you) for you to choose, which one will you take?
If the Mainlander Chinese and Taiwanese are able to get their professional licence, and airlines are accepting them, then who cares?! These rich chaps have their right to choose their own flying instructor, afterall they are paying lots of money!
The world is realistic and I have been traveling everywhere.
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"My previous message was implying that foreign students are comfortable and looking forward to train with instructors that have the same naïve language as theirs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If there are so many of the foreign students that need flight training, and it can best be done by foreigners as well, WHY DON'T THEY SET UP FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOLS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES???????
There's nothing magical about US airspace. Your reasons are just excuses to get the foot into the door of the US.
If anyone wants to get here easily, they can spit at our laws and run across the virtually unguarded southern border millions of Mexicans do every year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If there are so many of the foreign students that need flight training, and it can best be done by foreigners as well, WHY DON'T THEY SET UP FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOLS IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES???????
There's nothing magical about US airspace. Your reasons are just excuses to get the foot into the door of the US.
If anyone wants to get here easily, they can spit at our laws and run across the virtually unguarded southern border millions of Mexicans do every year.
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Roadtrip,
Let me see if I can inform a Boeing 747-200
Captain why we have so many foreign student in US. The first questin you should ask yourself is why the US government Issue them student visas to come here to US???
First of all countries such as India, China, Malysia, etc.. have not the resources that US have for flight training such as airplanes, instructors and other things you need to get your license. The cost of flight training is MUCH cheaper and MUCH MUCH easyer compared to other counties. You can pretty much get your commercial+IR+ME in 9-10 months in US with a cost about 30 to 40ks, maybe even chaeper. Once they are done these students go home and convert their license and get picked up by airlines flying Airbus 320, ATR, or Boeing 737.
So, have you figured out why your government issue them a student visa?? If not, let me tell you it is all about money. These students come to US and spend 30 to 40k to US flight schools, they also pay US government significant amount of money for their visa process, and once they are here in US they have to pay TSA (transpotation Security Administration) 130 US dollar before starting their training. So you do the math how much money your government is making to send these guys over here. And don't forgett the schools have to pay TAX too.
AND MOST OF THEM USUALLY GO BACK HOME TO FLY AIRBUS OR BOEING,,NO NO THEY DON'T WANT TO STAY HERE. A shiny airbus is waiting for them.
I hope this info change your thoughts about us international students that seeks training in USA.
Good Luck
Let me see if I can inform a Boeing 747-200
Captain why we have so many foreign student in US. The first questin you should ask yourself is why the US government Issue them student visas to come here to US???First of all countries such as India, China, Malysia, etc.. have not the resources that US have for flight training such as airplanes, instructors and other things you need to get your license. The cost of flight training is MUCH cheaper and MUCH MUCH easyer compared to other counties. You can pretty much get your commercial+IR+ME in 9-10 months in US with a cost about 30 to 40ks, maybe even chaeper. Once they are done these students go home and convert their license and get picked up by airlines flying Airbus 320, ATR, or Boeing 737.
So, have you figured out why your government issue them a student visa?? If not, let me tell you it is all about money. These students come to US and spend 30 to 40k to US flight schools, they also pay US government significant amount of money for their visa process, and once they are here in US they have to pay TSA (transpotation Security Administration) 130 US dollar before starting their training. So you do the math how much money your government is making to send these guys over here. And don't forgett the schools have to pay TAX too
. AND MOST OF THEM USUALLY GO BACK HOME TO FLY AIRBUS OR BOEING,,NO NO THEY DON'T WANT TO STAY HERE. A shiny airbus is waiting for them.
I hope this info change your thoughts about us international students that seeks training in USA.
Good Luck
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One aspect of this thread was talking about allowing foreign flight instructors work permits in the US. There's nothing complicated or special about setting up a flight school. Maybe governmental regulations in the home countries make it extra hard, but that's a local issue. If the need is so great in these countries, why don't their governments keep the training money in their own country and encourage flight schools to open up there.
Getting light airplanes and maintaining them isn't hard. Setting up a classroom and syllabus isn't expensive or difficult. For primary training, you don't need expensive or difficult-to-maintain simulators.
It seems to me that an Indian or Malaysian, or even Aussie company could set up a great flight school with not much investment and make a good profit by attracting south Asian students and teach in their native language, and be able to charge less than the relatively high cost of living and learning in the US.
I know a lot of Brit students like to train in Florida, but I think that's because flight training in the UK is pretty darn expensive, the weather is less likely to cause delays in training, and Florida is a plane ride away. Also with the extreme weakness of the dollar, the US is cheap for Europeans.
Getting light airplanes and maintaining them isn't hard. Setting up a classroom and syllabus isn't expensive or difficult. For primary training, you don't need expensive or difficult-to-maintain simulators.
It seems to me that an Indian or Malaysian, or even Aussie company could set up a great flight school with not much investment and make a good profit by attracting south Asian students and teach in their native language, and be able to charge less than the relatively high cost of living and learning in the US.
I know a lot of Brit students like to train in Florida, but I think that's because flight training in the UK is pretty darn expensive, the weather is less likely to cause delays in training, and Florida is a plane ride away. Also with the extreme weakness of the dollar, the US is cheap for Europeans.
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Post Age 60 pilots
The FAA Age 65 rule will take at least two years to enact, in the mean time experienced Captains go overseas or to WalMart. The ones who are forced overseas are bound to lower the bar on wages once more. After all what jobs are there in the USA for a sixty year old?