GOODnight?
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GOODnight?
Could we all see this one coming or what... SAS launches their "Höstkampanj"! For 650 SEK you can travel round trip to most domestic destinations (with some restrictions).
According to SAS it is pure coincidence that this comes just as GOODjet are launching their domestic routes. Yeah right...
SAS vs. Color Air, SAS/Skyways vs. Gotlandsflyg etc. etc.
Here we go again!
According to SAS it is pure coincidence that this comes just as GOODjet are launching their domestic routes. Yeah right...
SAS vs. Color Air, SAS/Skyways vs. Gotlandsflyg etc. etc.
Here we go again!
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Quite right, the only concern is, for how long is this good for the general public. I.e. what is the durability of the GOODjet effort, because if they go belly up, I recon the SAS prices would have a tendency to "increase".. 
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KADS, what is the name of the game? That you decide to significantly lower your prices only at the very time that someone else is trying to get into the market? Is it good for the public if GOODjet is forced out of business - dont think so!
Brenoch - I couldnt agree more!
If I was SAS management or Mr. JL himself, I would ask myself what the heck Im doing in the aviation industry to start with...
Then, fire about half of the people making a living "flipping papers" all day! After that, (Im starting to enjoy being management...
) I would tell the rest of the staff to wake up and smell the coffee! If things dont change soon, the SAS as you know it might not exist much longer! Alot of services could probably be sub-contracted at a much cheaper price. Flight- and Cabin crew have to work harder for the same pay.
"5 on 4 off" for CA's!? Something is seriously wrong in this company!
Brenoch - I couldnt agree more!
If I was SAS management or Mr. JL himself, I would ask myself what the heck Im doing in the aviation industry to start with...
Then, fire about half of the people making a living "flipping papers" all day! After that, (Im starting to enjoy being management...
) I would tell the rest of the staff to wake up and smell the coffee! If things dont change soon, the SAS as you know it might not exist much longer! Alot of services could probably be sub-contracted at a much cheaper price. Flight- and Cabin crew have to work harder for the same pay. "5 on 4 off" for CA's!? Something is seriously wrong in this company!
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People complain that SAS ticket prices are too high. Then SAS lowers the prices and, now that is bad too, because that will "drive other companies out of business".
Well, no sh_t Sherlock!! That's the general idea. Life is a bitch and so is competition. We recently saw the end result of competition in Norway when, in effect, there was only one company left. At that point SAS became the bad guy and had to placate a bunch of politicians and buy BU. Gimme a break!! Now we cannot use our bonusprogram in Norway anymore. It is a tool in the COMPETITION!!!!!!!
Nobody will stop GOODJET or anybody else for that matter from joining up with some other major airline and gaining access to that airlines bonusprogram, or they can start their own.
In all sincerety let me just say that I wish all the upstarts good luck, they are going to need it!!
Well, no sh_t Sherlock!! That's the general idea. Life is a bitch and so is competition. We recently saw the end result of competition in Norway when, in effect, there was only one company left. At that point SAS became the bad guy and had to placate a bunch of politicians and buy BU. Gimme a break!! Now we cannot use our bonusprogram in Norway anymore. It is a tool in the COMPETITION!!!!!!!
Nobody will stop GOODJET or anybody else for that matter from joining up with some other major airline and gaining access to that airlines bonusprogram, or they can start their own.
In all sincerety let me just say that I wish all the upstarts good luck, they are going to need it!!
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Competition IS good - the flying public get more options to chose from, and the operators need to stay on their toes to try to attract more clients.BUT pricedumping doesn`t benefit anybody except for the company that decides to dump their prices so that the competition doesn`t get any passengers because they don`t have strong enough financial background (read SAS is government owned 
) to stay in the ratrace.
and YES we did see it coming
) to stay in the ratrace.and YES we did see it coming
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Skunkworks-
Before you work yourself up, no harm meant by my statement, but rather an observation.
E.g.
When Malmö aviation started competing with SAS on domestic Swedish routes, and enhanced the service largely like better food, and special services on Fridays, SAS soon followed with the exact same onboard service. Conclusion: Pax on both airlines enjoyed better service, and still do.
If you look at the ads running in the Swedish newspapers they are offering for example "10 round trip Cards" at 8900:- compared to Mavia/SAS 18400:-/18600:- respectivly (Figures taken out of the good ol' memory so don't hang me on errors)
But if you read the fine print that offer is only valid on a specific number of limited tickets, so how much would the standard offer be? My guess is another 50% so about 14000:-
Not that big of a difference compared to the number of departures and service being offered by the others.
I can see your point of start-ups being ushered out when the larger airlines goes on the attack, but a still see the public as winners in the long run....
Don't forget we had a low cost carrier competing on the same routes a few years back, EAC, I believe, so there will always be another one.....
Before you work yourself up, no harm meant by my statement, but rather an observation.
E.g.
When Malmö aviation started competing with SAS on domestic Swedish routes, and enhanced the service largely like better food, and special services on Fridays, SAS soon followed with the exact same onboard service. Conclusion: Pax on both airlines enjoyed better service, and still do.
If you look at the ads running in the Swedish newspapers they are offering for example "10 round trip Cards" at 8900:- compared to Mavia/SAS 18400:-/18600:- respectivly (Figures taken out of the good ol' memory so don't hang me on errors)
But if you read the fine print that offer is only valid on a specific number of limited tickets, so how much would the standard offer be? My guess is another 50% so about 14000:-
Not that big of a difference compared to the number of departures and service being offered by the others.
I can see your point of start-ups being ushered out when the larger airlines goes on the attack, but a still see the public as winners in the long run....
Don't forget we had a low cost carrier competing on the same routes a few years back, EAC, I believe, so there will always be another one.....
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To F.O.A.L.
While the three governments do hold the majority of shares in SAS, the company does not get any money from the governments. In other words, we cannot afford to just sit there and bleed money until the other guy dies, we have to EARN the money before we can spend it. And one other thing, being state controlled is not a good thing these days. It is seen, by investors, as an obstruction to running an efficient and quick reacting company.
While competition is good as it keeps you on your toes, it is frustrating when the means with which one competes are taken away or severely limited.
While the three governments do hold the majority of shares in SAS, the company does not get any money from the governments. In other words, we cannot afford to just sit there and bleed money until the other guy dies, we have to EARN the money before we can spend it. And one other thing, being state controlled is not a good thing these days. It is seen, by investors, as an obstruction to running an efficient and quick reacting company.
While competition is good as it keeps you on your toes, it is frustrating when the means with which one competes are taken away or severely limited.
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Ramrise, you said:
"Nobody will stop GOODJET or anybody else for that matter from joining up with some other major airline and gaining access to that airlines bonusprogram, or they can start their own."
Why would the low cost carriers want to start a bonus scheme, when they argue AGAINST such organized corruption?
(Before you say it is not organized corruption, consider this example: An oil company give me 50 liters of free gas for my own car when I have put in total 500 liters on the company car. Such a sceme would have been stopped immediately, right? Try to explain the difference between this and the bonus schemes...)
Stop this commision to people wasting their employer's money, and the competition has a chance. People fly A to B via X instead of the direct flights to get more of the bloody points!
"Nobody will stop GOODJET or anybody else for that matter from joining up with some other major airline and gaining access to that airlines bonusprogram, or they can start their own."
Why would the low cost carriers want to start a bonus scheme, when they argue AGAINST such organized corruption?
(Before you say it is not organized corruption, consider this example: An oil company give me 50 liters of free gas for my own car when I have put in total 500 liters on the company car. Such a sceme would have been stopped immediately, right? Try to explain the difference between this and the bonus schemes...)
Stop this commision to people wasting their employer's money, and the competition has a chance. People fly A to B via X instead of the direct flights to get more of the bloody points!
Last edited by Ole Brumm; 3rd Sep 2002 at 23:01.
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SAS meeting the competition!? Yes but are they making any profit at those prices when they weren´t before? It is very obvious and expected of SAS to make such a desperate move! I predict SAS can sustain prices like that for one quarter, tops. Or have they somehow suddenly transformed the big moneyguzzling company into a lowcost one overnight??
The big looser in this "battle" will be the public, if SAS survives, or rather if GOODjet goes under. Then they will be deprived of a lowcostalternative with sustainability. If GOODjet survives, which I think they will, SAS will have to shave off tons of excess fat they are dragging along if they are to stay in business.
The big looser in this "battle" will be the public, if SAS survives, or rather if GOODjet goes under. Then they will be deprived of a lowcostalternative with sustainability. If GOODjet survives, which I think they will, SAS will have to shave off tons of excess fat they are dragging along if they are to stay in business.
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Jeg skjønner ikke hvorfor folk reagerer på at prisene endrer seg når konkurransen skjerpes. SAS-styrets oppgave er å sørge for at SAS tjener mest mulig penger(eller taper minst mulig). Prissetting er en viktig del av strategien for å klare den oppgaven. Noe av det første en økonomistudent lærer er at optimal pris i et konkurranseutsatt marked er mye lavere enn i et "monopol-liknende" marked. Sett i lys av dette ville styret rett og slett ikke gjøre jobben sin om de ikke satte ned prisen når det kom en konkurrent på ruten(og da burde eierne kreve nytt styre). (Her kommer et av problemene med statlig eierskap inn; staten får en dobbeltrolle der de eier deler av en bedrift samtidig som de prøver å skaffe bedriften størst mulig konkurranse.) Poenget mitt er at det ER LOV å sette ned prisen på et produkt!
Det som ikke er lov er fiendtlig prissetting der man bevisst flyr med underskudd MED DEN HENSIKT Å PRESSE KONKURRENTEN UT AV MARKEDET. Å avgjøre om et firma driver fiendtlig prissetting kan sikker være komplisert, men jeg tviler sterkt på at SAS gjør det i disse tilfellene med "kampanjepriser"(det har også blitt lavere priser i Norge etter at Norwegian kom). Begrunnelsen min for det er at disse prisene dreier seg om et ganske lite antall seter; seter som kanskje i stor grad ville vært tomme hadde det ikke vært for lavpriskampanjene. Så lenge vi snakker om et relativt lite antall biletter til seter som ellers ville stått tomme, vil SAS tjene penger så lenge bilettprisen er over "ID-nivå". Da er det ikke "umoralske" priser. Det er jo dette som gjør at Ryanair kan selge biletter til NOK 149(eller noe slikt) for Sandefjord-London.
Men likevel skjer det hver gang konkurransen endrer seg; media roper ut "Det var det vi sa; nå øker de prisene", eller "Det var det vi sa; nå dumper de prisene". Akkurat som at de var så geniale som kunne forutsi noe slikt. Mens i vikeligheten er det elementær lærdom for alle som har lest 10 sider økonomi.
Det som ikke er lov er fiendtlig prissetting der man bevisst flyr med underskudd MED DEN HENSIKT Å PRESSE KONKURRENTEN UT AV MARKEDET. Å avgjøre om et firma driver fiendtlig prissetting kan sikker være komplisert, men jeg tviler sterkt på at SAS gjør det i disse tilfellene med "kampanjepriser"(det har også blitt lavere priser i Norge etter at Norwegian kom). Begrunnelsen min for det er at disse prisene dreier seg om et ganske lite antall seter; seter som kanskje i stor grad ville vært tomme hadde det ikke vært for lavpriskampanjene. Så lenge vi snakker om et relativt lite antall biletter til seter som ellers ville stått tomme, vil SAS tjene penger så lenge bilettprisen er over "ID-nivå". Da er det ikke "umoralske" priser. Det er jo dette som gjør at Ryanair kan selge biletter til NOK 149(eller noe slikt) for Sandefjord-London.
Men likevel skjer det hver gang konkurransen endrer seg; media roper ut "Det var det vi sa; nå øker de prisene", eller "Det var det vi sa; nå dumper de prisene". Akkurat som at de var så geniale som kunne forutsi noe slikt. Mens i vikeligheten er det elementær lærdom for alle som har lest 10 sider økonomi.
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Kommer helt an på hvordan de definerer "kampanje"
Det har vært en tendens til å bortforklare ting ved å bruke andre ordsettinger slik at definisjonene passer best til situasjonen.
Hvis denne "kampanjen" er å bli kvitt all konkurranse ved å holde det gående med underskudd så er det ulovlig, men hvis de gjerne vil holde på kundene sine ved å tilby konkurrerende tilbud så kan man ikke klage.Sånn er business - man må tjene $$$
Det har vært en tendens til å bortforklare ting ved å bruke andre ordsettinger slik at definisjonene passer best til situasjonen.
Hvis denne "kampanjen" er å bli kvitt all konkurranse ved å holde det gående med underskudd så er det ulovlig, men hvis de gjerne vil holde på kundene sine ved å tilby konkurrerende tilbud så kan man ikke klage.Sånn er business - man må tjene $$$
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Laminar , I think your right. I don't consider it honest when they increse their standard for just as long a time it takes to blow away the compeditors only to revert to the same old crappy standard when mission is accomplished.
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FOAL, you wrote:
BUT pricedumping doesn`t benefit anybody except for the company that decides to dump their prices so that the competition doesn`t get any passengers because they don`t have strong enough financial background ....
Well, it seems to me, that pricedumping is exactly THE tool, that the lowcost companies use as their primary competition parameter against "the big ones".
So what you say is basically, that pricedumping is okay, when the lowcost operators use it, but it's not okay, when "the big ones" use it??
BUT pricedumping doesn`t benefit anybody except for the company that decides to dump their prices so that the competition doesn`t get any passengers because they don`t have strong enough financial background ....
Well, it seems to me, that pricedumping is exactly THE tool, that the lowcost companies use as their primary competition parameter against "the big ones".
So what you say is basically, that pricedumping is okay, when the lowcost operators use it, but it's not okay, when "the big ones" use it??
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CAVOC, to keep low prices all year every year is not pricedumping. When a major DUMPS it prices from a very high level to a low level trying to get rid of an entrant, THAT is pricedumping.
dump = throw down in mass, unload.....
dump = throw down in mass, unload.....
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Well Ole, you're right about that, but consider another kind of pricedumping, permanent pricedumping, that most lowcost carriers use in their advertisements:
Prices down to 50 kr. or even 1 kr. pr. seat fits the definition of pricedumping, in my opinion.
I refuse to believe that they are earning any money on those seats.... And we can probably even agree (?), that you lose money on a "50 kr. seat". So the vast majority of the seats are sold at much higher prices, and that's somewhat more difficult to find in the ads.
Isn't that pricedumping for the sake of attracting the costumers attention via the ads...??
Prices down to 50 kr. or even 1 kr. pr. seat fits the definition of pricedumping, in my opinion.
I refuse to believe that they are earning any money on those seats.... And we can probably even agree (?), that you lose money on a "50 kr. seat". So the vast majority of the seats are sold at much higher prices, and that's somewhat more difficult to find in the ads.
Isn't that pricedumping for the sake of attracting the costumers attention via the ads...??