Norwegian Long Haul - selection and terms
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There are two issues at play here. . . . . the 1st (as championed by cucuotto) is that the existing NAS pilots on the "Core" contract (and indeed any "Unionised" pilot from Scandinavia) are smarting at the fact that the "Big Bear" decided he could only afford/justify this project if he did it on the cheap, & has made no effort to package/offer it as
anything sweeter.
Too much O' Leary Koolade means he is totally immune to any (perhaps justified) wailing & gnashing of teeth from "K Area" players, that their expectations of participation in the expansion into long-haul , have been dealt with so off-handedly.
The other side of the coin is those (Scandis & non Scandis) who have identified this opportunity as worth "looking at", with a (guarded) perhaps slightly "Rose tinted spectacles" (?) hope, that it could/may get better in the future.
A bit like the old joke about a woman getting involved with a man convinced he will change
. . . and a man getting involved with a woman convinced she won't change 
(both parties are of course subsequently proven to be totally delusional, & totally wrong)
I fear in the case of NLH, both of the factions participating here, are destined to be disappointed in the long-term.
anything sweeter.
Too much O' Leary Koolade means he is totally immune to any (perhaps justified) wailing & gnashing of teeth from "K Area" players, that their expectations of participation in the expansion into long-haul , have been dealt with so off-handedly.
The other side of the coin is those (Scandis & non Scandis) who have identified this opportunity as worth "looking at", with a (guarded) perhaps slightly "Rose tinted spectacles" (?) hope, that it could/may get better in the future.
A bit like the old joke about a woman getting involved with a man convinced he will change
. . . and a man getting involved with a woman convinced she won't change (both parties are of course subsequently proven to be totally delusional, & totally wrong) I fear in the case of NLH, both of the factions participating here, are destined to be disappointed in the long-term.
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Capt Playstation
I think that is a fair assessment.
At the screening briefing (when asked about career progression) the Chief Pilot made the comment that if he took a dislike to you after joining NLH, then you may as well f**k off somewhere else as you would be finished in NLH.
I thought this was a strange welcoming speech?
In fact I was shocked.
Also, that friend of mine that got the DEC job offer within 48 hrs?
He already has a very nice job thank you. He wrote to Rishworth and asked for time to consider a few things. His job offer was immediately withdrawn!
I am beginning to wonder what sort of working environment there will be at NLH?
Regards,
I think that is a fair assessment.
At the screening briefing (when asked about career progression) the Chief Pilot made the comment that if he took a dislike to you after joining NLH, then you may as well f**k off somewhere else as you would be finished in NLH.
I thought this was a strange welcoming speech?
In fact I was shocked.Also, that friend of mine that got the DEC job offer within 48 hrs?
He already has a very nice job thank you. He wrote to Rishworth and asked for time to consider a few things. His job offer was immediately withdrawn!
I am beginning to wonder what sort of working environment there will be at NLH?
Regards,
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All you can take from the last post ( quite clearly ) is that I have stated what has gone on.
I have told you what I saw / happened. Whether I was offered the job or not is irrelevant. The goings on mentioned above happened during / after the screening. My previous posts have been fair. I am telling you what happened to my mate. Should I not have?
As I stated in my previous post, this latest behaviour at NLH / Rishworth has come as a shock to me, a big shock!
It has coloured my judgement without a doubt. For those that are interested in pursuing a job with NLH I felt this was further info that was pertinent. I cannot believe that when my mate asked for time to consider their offer, they immediately withdrew it! This raises serious concerns for me re the mind set / attitude of the employer. I have never seen a company react like this before to a simple request for "time to think".
This first hand experience, together with another posters tale of NLH getting "nasty" when he tried to clarify rosters etc has become a concern.
Very worrying, very worrying indeed!
Anyway, Why is it that everybody on here is looking for a catch or reason for somebody making a statement.
Frankly I have had enough of this. Pprune is obviously not the forum for somebody wanting simple information re a screening etc. Sooner or later the thread takes a nose dive when people start ranting about this, that, and god knows what else, as witnessed in this very thread.
If anybody else would like sensible info re this NLH screening then please PM me. I will not bother putting anything else here.
I'm off.
I have told you what I saw / happened. Whether I was offered the job or not is irrelevant. The goings on mentioned above happened during / after the screening. My previous posts have been fair. I am telling you what happened to my mate. Should I not have?
As I stated in my previous post, this latest behaviour at NLH / Rishworth has come as a shock to me, a big shock!
It has coloured my judgement without a doubt. For those that are interested in pursuing a job with NLH I felt this was further info that was pertinent. I cannot believe that when my mate asked for time to consider their offer, they immediately withdrew it! This raises serious concerns for me re the mind set / attitude of the employer. I have never seen a company react like this before to a simple request for "time to think".This first hand experience, together with another posters tale of NLH getting "nasty" when he tried to clarify rosters etc has become a concern.
Very worrying, very worrying indeed!
Anyway, Why is it that everybody on here is looking for a catch or reason for somebody making a statement.
Frankly I have had enough of this. Pprune is obviously not the forum for somebody wanting simple information re a screening etc. Sooner or later the thread takes a nose dive when people start ranting about this, that, and god knows what else, as witnessed in this very thread.
If anybody else would like sensible info re this NLH screening then please PM me. I will not bother putting anything else here.
I'm off.
Last edited by Jetjockey145; 7th Aug 2013 at 10:19.
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Jet jockey
I have no intention of insulting you but you have to admit that your sudden change of attitude timed very coincidentally with the date of you getting the result of the screening. That said I agree that these threads can get dragged into slagging matches and that is not my intention. I apologise for any offence caused and realise that my post was very blunt and rude.
I think that all of your previous posts (except your most recent) have been fair and reasoned. There has been a lot of unreasoned opinion on this thread and you have provided some good information. I was simply trying to understand your sudden change of attitude.
The incidents that you quote in your previous post as, "showing a concerning attitude" are not in my opinion strange. Whilst I would admit that a chief pilot openly saying if you fall out with me you are finished is unusual, it is true of everywhere I have ever worked. If your boss hates you in any job, then good luck!
Regarding your friend needing more time to think!. Well what did he expect. If you go to all the bother of applying to a company, finding out about there T's & C's (which you have previously posted as being open for all to see) and then going to Oslo (at the companies expense) for their selection, you should be able to make up your mind about them. Needing a day or two is one thing but having to actually e-mail to ask for more time shows a poor attitude of the employee not the employer. In withdrawing their offer it proves your own point that they have plenty of applicants.
Anyway I hope you did get the job and thanks for your previous posts.
I have no intention of insulting you but you have to admit that your sudden change of attitude timed very coincidentally with the date of you getting the result of the screening. That said I agree that these threads can get dragged into slagging matches and that is not my intention. I apologise for any offence caused and realise that my post was very blunt and rude.
I think that all of your previous posts (except your most recent) have been fair and reasoned. There has been a lot of unreasoned opinion on this thread and you have provided some good information. I was simply trying to understand your sudden change of attitude.
The incidents that you quote in your previous post as, "showing a concerning attitude" are not in my opinion strange. Whilst I would admit that a chief pilot openly saying if you fall out with me you are finished is unusual, it is true of everywhere I have ever worked. If your boss hates you in any job, then good luck!
Regarding your friend needing more time to think!. Well what did he expect. If you go to all the bother of applying to a company, finding out about there T's & C's (which you have previously posted as being open for all to see) and then going to Oslo (at the companies expense) for their selection, you should be able to make up your mind about them. Needing a day or two is one thing but having to actually e-mail to ask for more time shows a poor attitude of the employee not the employer. In withdrawing their offer it proves your own point that they have plenty of applicants.
Anyway I hope you did get the job and thanks for your previous posts.
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Norwegian considers basing long-haul division in Ireland - Article
Anyone care to speculate how this could impact pilot basing in the long run? Does this still imply continued Bangkok basing or potential for basing closer to home? Obviously mostly speculation at this time...
See article below:
Norwegian considers basing long-haul division in Ireland
By: Michael Gubisch London
21 hours ago
Norwegian is applying for a permanent Irish air operator's certificate for its new long-haul division, as the Scandinavian low-cost carrier prepares for the first intercontinental deployment of its Boeing 787 on 15 August.
The Irish Aviation Authority has issued a temporary AOC for Norwegian's long-haul arm, which launched on 30 May, with two wet-leased Airbus A340s, and operates flights to New York's JFK airport and Bangkok. But that certificate - which is being used to operate the airline's 787s - will expire by year-end.
Now, the Oslo-based carrier is "in the process" of applying for a permanent AOC in Ireland to be able to employ international crew members. The airline wants to recruit flight attendants from Thailand, which would not be possible if the aircraft were registered at home as Norwegian law prohibits the employment of staff from outside the European Economic Area.
The carrier has international pilots, but the flightcrew need to be employed on Norway-based terms and conditions. This would also become more flexible under Irish regulations.
Norwegian says that it would like to operate all aircraft from Norway, but the country's strict rules and regulations prevent it from competing against other carriers with fewer limitations. The carrier adds that it had been considering different countries to its long-haul division, including Sweden, before it eventually opted for Ireland.
Also under consideration is relocation of the long-haul division's headquarters to Ireland, as it would not be legally possible for a Norway-based airline to permanently operate aircraft under another country's AOC. The carrier insists, however, that the licence transfer to Ireland applies only to the long-haul division and not the group's short-haul mainstay.
The first of eight 787-8s ordered by Norwegian was delivered at the end of June. The aircraft has been deployed on European routes for pilot familiarisation.
Norwegian is planning to employ the type on Stockholm-Bangkok route for the first time on 15 August. The aircraft is scheduled to fly to New York the next day.
See article below:
Norwegian considers basing long-haul division in Ireland
By: Michael Gubisch London
21 hours ago
Norwegian is applying for a permanent Irish air operator's certificate for its new long-haul division, as the Scandinavian low-cost carrier prepares for the first intercontinental deployment of its Boeing 787 on 15 August.
The Irish Aviation Authority has issued a temporary AOC for Norwegian's long-haul arm, which launched on 30 May, with two wet-leased Airbus A340s, and operates flights to New York's JFK airport and Bangkok. But that certificate - which is being used to operate the airline's 787s - will expire by year-end.
Now, the Oslo-based carrier is "in the process" of applying for a permanent AOC in Ireland to be able to employ international crew members. The airline wants to recruit flight attendants from Thailand, which would not be possible if the aircraft were registered at home as Norwegian law prohibits the employment of staff from outside the European Economic Area.
The carrier has international pilots, but the flightcrew need to be employed on Norway-based terms and conditions. This would also become more flexible under Irish regulations.
Norwegian says that it would like to operate all aircraft from Norway, but the country's strict rules and regulations prevent it from competing against other carriers with fewer limitations. The carrier adds that it had been considering different countries to its long-haul division, including Sweden, before it eventually opted for Ireland.
Also under consideration is relocation of the long-haul division's headquarters to Ireland, as it would not be legally possible for a Norway-based airline to permanently operate aircraft under another country's AOC. The carrier insists, however, that the licence transfer to Ireland applies only to the long-haul division and not the group's short-haul mainstay.
The first of eight 787-8s ordered by Norwegian was delivered at the end of June. The aircraft has been deployed on European routes for pilot familiarisation.
Norwegian is planning to employ the type on Stockholm-Bangkok route for the first time on 15 August. The aircraft is scheduled to fly to New York the next day.
Last edited by Iver; 8th Aug 2013 at 13:04.
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No impact.. contract is unchanged , base BKK remains at your expense. This has to do with the AOC not the operation. Norway does not accept Thai CC on board Norway registered aircraft and the EI registration has to go if they keep the Norwegian AOC. Thus the need to put Long Haul on an Irish AOC. Ireland really is the receptacle of all shady and the scummy operations in Europe.Can we kick them out?
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Folks
One things really surprises me. Everyone, or almost everyone, seems to think this contract, wtih a BKK basing isn't worth looking at.
Yet, just yesterday, I received another flyer trying to sell me how nice living in BKK was !!! Yeah !! Like I've never been there !!
To keep advertising a BKK basing, they must still find the adequate number of " right " people.
Are there that many experienced pilots in desperation of finding a job ?
Reading between the lines, Norwegian short haul seems the place to be.
Having an irish AOC will also allow NLH to save a fair amount on taxes, that's a thing the Irish managed to salvage from the IMF and the European union.
Personally I'd love to take this norwegian job..........with a scandi basing. Otherwise just forget it. Good God.....as if I didn't already have my share of honking bumper to bumper traffic jam where I live !
One things really surprises me. Everyone, or almost everyone, seems to think this contract, wtih a BKK basing isn't worth looking at.
Yet, just yesterday, I received another flyer trying to sell me how nice living in BKK was !!! Yeah !! Like I've never been there !!
To keep advertising a BKK basing, they must still find the adequate number of " right " people.
Are there that many experienced pilots in desperation of finding a job ?
Reading between the lines, Norwegian short haul seems the place to be.
Having an irish AOC will also allow NLH to save a fair amount on taxes, that's a thing the Irish managed to salvage from the IMF and the European union.
Personally I'd love to take this norwegian job..........with a scandi basing. Otherwise just forget it. Good God.....as if I didn't already have my share of honking bumper to bumper traffic jam where I live !
So Norway that is not in the EU does not accept cabin crew from outside EU/EEA, but Ireland, an EU member does.
Ireland seems hellbent on being the saviour of those intent on screwing staff to make a buck.
I could think of a few words for that, but none of them is nice.
Ireland seems hellbent on being the saviour of those intent on screwing staff to make a buck.
I could think of a few words for that, but none of them is nice.
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So Norway that is not in the EU does not accept cabin crew from outside EU/EEA, but Ireland, an EU member does.
Any news from the selection; do they find enough pilots?
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They (EU) are too busy harmonising whether a UK national driving a Spanish registered car speeding in France should be fined/castrated/electrocuted . . . . . . . that they have no time left to deal with whether you should have to give a credit card when arriving in hospital in Spain ( even if you pay tax in UK & have a European Health Card ) so, don't expect any decision anytime soon on anything that doesn't include filching your money.
B@STARDS !
B@STARDS !
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cancel IFR well you might have wanted to say "took part" For sure a tuc tuc.. is the only transport he will be able to afford in BKK
Last edited by cucuotto; 23rd Aug 2013 at 09:36.
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Ah; give it a rest.
If a pilot with the proper licenses and ratings is willing to perform the job for whatever $hitty salary and conditions that are currently on offer, then guess what? Thats the going rate, boys!
A pilot's worth is defined by the moron who accepts it. That's the botton line
So until we manage to eliminate the idiots at the licensing stage, we're not going to get anywhere. And let's be honest; why on God's earth should a high-school dropout bordering alcoholic be paid anything else but minimum wage after an 18 month course in how to keep the blue sky up?
Any kid stupid enough to want to be a pilot doesn't have the critical mindset required to be one.
If a pilot with the proper licenses and ratings is willing to perform the job for whatever $hitty salary and conditions that are currently on offer, then guess what? Thats the going rate, boys!
A pilot's worth is defined by the moron who accepts it. That's the botton line
So until we manage to eliminate the idiots at the licensing stage, we're not going to get anywhere. And let's be honest; why on God's earth should a high-school dropout bordering alcoholic be paid anything else but minimum wage after an 18 month course in how to keep the blue sky up?
Any kid stupid enough to want to be a pilot doesn't have the critical mindset required to be one.
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Well done Boeing operator
Its always nice to "get" a job offered and you must be pleased, i can't and wont comment on the T&C'S because i don't know whats on offer, but it must meet your expectations, there are huge advantages in getting early with any organisation particularly on a new type that will be a major player in the long haul market over the next decade or so.
It will be interesting to hear how you get on and feel free to PM me if your fed up of the bashing going on justified other wise.
Well done
It will be interesting to hear how you get on and feel free to PM me if your fed up of the bashing going on justified other wise.
Well done
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A lot of us have passed on this; but there's always someone willing to underbid.
As for taxes, you need to ask about the 60 day rule. Anybody planning on paying overseas tax need to consider that every time those 10 wheels touch the pavement at home, it's considered a day for tax-purposes. 4 trips a month through Europe; two calender days each time. That's 8 days a month just in layovers. Multiplied by 12 months that's 96 days a year in layovers. Never mind vacations and visits.
Which leaves you paying full income tax in Europe if you're European, regardless of where you actually live. And trust me; they have their eyes on this one.
As for taxes, you need to ask about the 60 day rule. Anybody planning on paying overseas tax need to consider that every time those 10 wheels touch the pavement at home, it's considered a day for tax-purposes. 4 trips a month through Europe; two calender days each time. That's 8 days a month just in layovers. Multiplied by 12 months that's 96 days a year in layovers. Never mind vacations and visits.
Which leaves you paying full income tax in Europe if you're European, regardless of where you actually live. And trust me; they have their eyes on this one.
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I'm glad that many of you seem to have better jobs than NLH. Perfect, stay where you are! I would as well.
But if you don't have such a good job (or perhaps no job at all for the moment), what should one do? Say no thanks because others on PPRUNE says it should be a better deal?
I expect to pay full Scandinavian taxes, which will be about 60% in total. That's normal up here. Too old to screw the tax man.
I have now seen the roster for some guys flying for NLH. Looks good to me. Days off in Scandinavia. That's where they live, pay taxes and spend off days. Others live in BKK, they get rostered out of BKK.
Again, I am hopeful that NLH will offer European bases wthin a few years. But not until then we will know for sure.
But if you don't have such a good job (or perhaps no job at all for the moment), what should one do? Say no thanks because others on PPRUNE says it should be a better deal?
I expect to pay full Scandinavian taxes, which will be about 60% in total. That's normal up here. Too old to screw the tax man.
I have now seen the roster for some guys flying for NLH. Looks good to me. Days off in Scandinavia. That's where they live, pay taxes and spend off days. Others live in BKK, they get rostered out of BKK.
Again, I am hopeful that NLH will offer European bases wthin a few years. But not until then we will know for sure.