Norwegian Long Haul - selection and terms
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125K per annum gross for CPT means, as you will have to pay taxes and put aside 30% of that for retirement 60000 net ergo 5000 per month to fly a 787 based in Bankgok and still you have to pay for your expenses both in BKK and during layovers..For FOs we are in the range 2000 euro net minus expenses ...enjoy.. but may be for you this is just a pastime...
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125.000 per annum means slightly over 10k gross per month so take social security and taxes away from it and best case scenario you are left with slightly more than half of it.
It would be ok for some regional turbo prop operation in your own backyard but long haul for a wannabe trans Atlantic new entry that has you based on a commuting contract in BKK me thinks its almost disgusting.
Scabs isn't an offense but a state of mind, one of those I hope I will never be in.
It would be ok for some regional turbo prop operation in your own backyard but long haul for a wannabe trans Atlantic new entry that has you based on a commuting contract in BKK me thinks its almost disgusting.
Scabs isn't an offense but a state of mind, one of those I hope I will never be in.
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As the fleet expands (probably rapidly ) in the future, the lack of suitable applicants may self-regulate the situation (as may a Stateside base)
Then again, it is an open secret that a significant part of the expansion will/may be in Spain . . . how many pilots with LH experience from failed Spanish carriers (including Iberia if WW has his way ) will be happy to work for 125K gross ? I would hazard, quite a few.
How many years we waited for the golden goose of "pilot shortage" that would force Ryanair to up the bar, only to see yet another company go under & save the day for MOL.
Waiting for NLH to run out of applicants could (if you wish to participate) be a similarly unrewarding pastime. If you dont want to accept the same money flying the Plastic Fantastic on longhaul as Contractors gross on the 738 . . easy, don't apply, I didn't /won't. . nobody is forcing you
Then again, it is an open secret that a significant part of the expansion will/may be in Spain . . . how many pilots with LH experience from failed Spanish carriers (including Iberia if WW has his way ) will be happy to work for 125K gross ? I would hazard, quite a few.
How many years we waited for the golden goose of "pilot shortage" that would force Ryanair to up the bar, only to see yet another company go under & save the day for MOL.
Waiting for NLH to run out of applicants could (if you wish to participate) be a similarly unrewarding pastime. If you dont want to accept the same money flying the Plastic Fantastic on longhaul as Contractors gross on the 738 . . easy, don't apply, I didn't /won't. . nobody is forcing you
Last edited by captplaystation; 26th Jul 2013 at 23:09.
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I still don't think that all 184 pilots (crewing eight aircraft) will be on contracts, and even less I think so in three years time from now when they are free from their bonds.
The question for everyone at this stage is therefore how much one wants to gamble. Do one think NLH will offer employment, and if so where (what base) and when, and under what t&c? If so, who will be offered employment since there is no seniority list in NLH (it can be seen as an up to three year trail period)?
You can note the difference in 737 Norwegian ops where pilots employed ("core") have very good conditions (I would say much better than for example SAS) compared to them on contract. As I understand, pilots are offered employment in the order they started on a contract, correct?
However, unfortunately none of us know about the future. We just have to make our bets.
The question for everyone at this stage is therefore how much one wants to gamble. Do one think NLH will offer employment, and if so where (what base) and when, and under what t&c? If so, who will be offered employment since there is no seniority list in NLH (it can be seen as an up to three year trail period)?
You can note the difference in 737 Norwegian ops where pilots employed ("core") have very good conditions (I would say much better than for example SAS) compared to them on contract. As I understand, pilots are offered employment in the order they started on a contract, correct?
However, unfortunately none of us know about the future. We just have to make our bets.
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What a dumb post is this? What is your point? What is the point in bouncing first class aviator ( sorry..not all pilot are the same) with such ridiculous t&cs to later offer permanent contracts. Probation is normally three months not 3 years. And for three years they'll keep you from the balls.It seems they have doubts themselves about this project. I tested the ground thoroughly and at the end it really seems they are only looking to crew the plane with cheapest human material,desperate, retired, p2f kids...
Last edited by cucuotto; 28th Jul 2013 at 10:31.
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Cucuotto, you probably bring a great working environment into whatever cockpit you lay your hat. Good luck to you.
Anyone been to the interview yet that can share some experiences?
Anyone been to the interview yet that can share some experiences?
Last edited by Boeing operator; 28th Jul 2013 at 15:42.
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Get round the tax issue, risky business these days.
Three former colleges of mine got letters from their national tax office a while ago. They where accused of not reporting correct amount taxable income. Two of the guys were given the option to pay each a fine of € 200.000,- or face criminal prosecution. Their lawyer adviced them to take the 200 K fine since the documentation provided by the tax office was massive. The documentation was released by the end user low cost airline well known across Europe.
The last college brought his case in for the court. He is fighting his case all at his own expense. He was never given the option of paying off his problem since he was supposed to pay his tax to a different country.
It is interesting to see that the airlines, when approached by the tax offices, release all info and cover their own back.
Three former colleges of mine got letters from their national tax office a while ago. They where accused of not reporting correct amount taxable income. Two of the guys were given the option to pay each a fine of € 200.000,- or face criminal prosecution. Their lawyer adviced them to take the 200 K fine since the documentation provided by the tax office was massive. The documentation was released by the end user low cost airline well known across Europe.
The last college brought his case in for the court. He is fighting his case all at his own expense. He was never given the option of paying off his problem since he was supposed to pay his tax to a different country.
It is interesting to see that the airlines, when approached by the tax offices, release all info and cover their own back.
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So the circle is becoming complete... A high cost for an fATPL with all the trimmings, less experience, then bend over because it's time for a good old P2F scheme/scam, maybe there's a 6 month contract with or without a renewal at the end? You can't afford peanuts because you get paid less than a varte of bananas each month. Staff travel benefits? HAHAHAHA!!! Sorry mate, you're not really employed by us
BTW, the taxman called and we gave him whatever he asked for without questioning nor looking after your interests, because you're considered selfemployed. The taxman gets what he wants, because, again, bananas isn't what a lawyer wants for his services. So, again, bend over, you're on your own
But hey, at least the tickets keep getting cheaper so that all the unemployed by choice (i.e. the Norwegian social system - not talking about the airline here) get their sun n fun down in the Med twice yearly, paid by....wait for it.... YOU! 
So, how about competing about who has the best T&Cs? Here's a thought; somebody has to offer the best - who can't/shouldn't it be YOUR airline?
BTW, the taxman called and we gave him whatever he asked for without questioning nor looking after your interests, because you're considered selfemployed. The taxman gets what he wants, because, again, bananas isn't what a lawyer wants for his services. So, again, bend over, you're on your own But hey, at least the tickets keep getting cheaper so that all the unemployed by choice (i.e. the Norwegian social system - not talking about the airline here) get their sun n fun down in the Med twice yearly, paid by....wait for it.... YOU! So, how about competing about who has the best T&Cs? Here's a thought; somebody has to offer the best - who can't/shouldn't it be YOUR airline?
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Thanks Cucuotto, once again you throw the insults.
I am neither retired, P2F, desperate, a kid, bottom of the heap, etc, etc, etc.
I am simply looking to do something different.
Thanks.
I am neither retired, P2F, desperate, a kid, bottom of the heap, etc, etc, etc.
I am simply looking to do something different.
Thanks.
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I concur. Something different. If it doesn't work, move on. There will be enough 787 contract jobs by then.
While on the subject does anyone know when the upcoming courses are planned? Any new year starts?
While on the subject does anyone know when the upcoming courses are planned? Any new year starts?
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cucuotto
Can't let it go can you? remember you have to be in it to win it, i remember when airlines first started charging for type ratings, a guy i know who was very principled refused point blank to play that game, so spent four years flying a C152, fours years later i met him again, he was then my F/o, we did the maths (he ended up paying for a rating) and over that four years he had earned just 28K as a FI, meanwhile I had 3 years F/o money at £29k & 1 year Cpt money £54k or £141k-v-£28k, principals don't pay bills.
You've got to be in it to win
Can't let it go can you? remember you have to be in it to win it, i remember when airlines first started charging for type ratings, a guy i know who was very principled refused point blank to play that game, so spent four years flying a C152, fours years later i met him again, he was then my F/o, we did the maths (he ended up paying for a rating) and over that four years he had earned just 28K as a FI, meanwhile I had 3 years F/o money at £29k & 1 year Cpt money £54k or £141k-v-£28k, principals don't pay bills.
You've got to be in it to win
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Principals always pay off in the long run and a man without any is just scum...
To pay your bills you could also sell your arse.. probably you would make even more money. Beside your FI friend had four years of instructing experience much more valuable to build airmanship than any 737 SIC time. FAA now 1500 hours before right seat of an airliner , no P2F , no bonds or **** like that. Beside..fyi I'm in it since 19 years..
To pay your bills you could also sell your arse.. probably you would make even more money. Beside your FI friend had four years of instructing experience much more valuable to build airmanship than any 737 SIC time. FAA now 1500 hours before right seat of an airliner , no P2F , no bonds or **** like that. Beside..fyi I'm in it since 19 years..
Last edited by cucuotto; 31st Jul 2013 at 10:46.
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Hey Nice you are not nice. I might be a c@ck but there is no doubt you are an arse hole. And what may seem nonsense to your hardly working neurons in you ant size brain ( not to worry..that is enough to follow f@king magenta line) make sense to me and to people with a little of self respect...left. Buzz off.
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I think the deal is ok after all, if we talk about the pay.
Who says that pilots should earn so much more money than others?
If I as FO could cash (living in Sweden) about SEK 30,000 after all social taxes and income tax is paid, that equals a salary of 45,000 on a "normal" payslip. That is a very good salary in Sweden. I am very happy with that.
That's much more than the starting salary at SAS even if you pay a few thousand to your own pension. Also, do 5 years at university in Sweden and you'll end up with much less.
I just hope to get to the screening soon.
Who says that pilots should earn so much more money than others?
If I as FO could cash (living in Sweden) about SEK 30,000 after all social taxes and income tax is paid, that equals a salary of 45,000 on a "normal" payslip. That is a very good salary in Sweden. I am very happy with that.
That's much more than the starting salary at SAS even if you pay a few thousand to your own pension. Also, do 5 years at university in Sweden and you'll end up with much less.
I just hope to get to the screening soon.