SAS/Braathens piloter
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I hasten to correct you wiskey.
SKBU is NOT a 100% norwegian company, neither are approximately 50% of the pilots ex BU. SK is a scandinavian company with approximately 2000 pilots. I think that the ex BU pilots number about 15% of the total number of pilots.
Besides, the courts really have no business here, not yet anyway. We can still make deals, agreed upon conditions that we both accept. Right?? Or are you not willing to even try?
I for one would like to try, and I just can't believe that there aren't any BU pilots who want to talk.
I should clarify something that empati commented on. I would not regard a B737 job as a dead end street if that was the only aircraft type in my company. Not at all. But the point is, the B737 is NOT the only aircraft in OUR company. We have dash8's, B737's, MD80's, A321's, A330's and even the four engined variety, the A340. Possibly the A319 might be joining us at some point. My point all along has been this: WE work for a scandinavian company. A big scandinavian company that offers alot of opportunity IF you join the collective.
Back to you.
Ramrise
SKBU is NOT a 100% norwegian company, neither are approximately 50% of the pilots ex BU. SK is a scandinavian company with approximately 2000 pilots. I think that the ex BU pilots number about 15% of the total number of pilots.
Besides, the courts really have no business here, not yet anyway. We can still make deals, agreed upon conditions that we both accept. Right?? Or are you not willing to even try?
I for one would like to try, and I just can't believe that there aren't any BU pilots who want to talk.
I should clarify something that empati commented on. I would not regard a B737 job as a dead end street if that was the only aircraft type in my company. Not at all. But the point is, the B737 is NOT the only aircraft in OUR company. We have dash8's, B737's, MD80's, A321's, A330's and even the four engined variety, the A340. Possibly the A319 might be joining us at some point. My point all along has been this: WE work for a scandinavian company. A big scandinavian company that offers alot of opportunity IF you join the collective.
Back to you.
Ramrise
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Ramrise
Were are SASBrathens registered and witch laws are they obliged to follow???? The owners might be from all over the world, but it is by law and also confirmed by the owner of SAS; the SAS Group, that it is a Norwegian company. Really, I don't care when you wake up....
Were are SASBrathens registered and witch laws are they obliged to follow???? The owners might be from all over the world, but it is by law and also confirmed by the owner of SAS; the SAS Group, that it is a Norwegian company. Really, I don't care when you wake up....
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Whiskey! You should spend more time listening to empati who is the smartest of you guys by a wide margin.
Forget your Norway this and Norway that BS. The SAS pilot group works for an international concern which owns companies in many different countries, among them Norway. Now how can you - in a sober state - think that we will accept that one of theese countries is suddenly off limits?
It will never happen, and I´ll tell you why: If there is any attempt to do it we will close down the company by strike action untill it colapses. You saw what Copenhagen base was capable of, and that was only shorthaul. We´ve got management by the balls - and we intend to keep it that way. Even the slightest attempt to encourage isolation and sub-divisions in the pilot group will be dealt with severely. They know it - and thats why it wont happen whether you, norwegian law or anyone else thinks it will. Of course nothing can prevent you from trying - but before you do consider this, We are a very vindictive bunch and K06 is not far off. If you behave you will be well treated - if you don´t we´ll make you suffer - a lot.
See you in Oslo
Kingsnake
Forget your Norway this and Norway that BS. The SAS pilot group works for an international concern which owns companies in many different countries, among them Norway. Now how can you - in a sober state - think that we will accept that one of theese countries is suddenly off limits?
It will never happen, and I´ll tell you why: If there is any attempt to do it we will close down the company by strike action untill it colapses. You saw what Copenhagen base was capable of, and that was only shorthaul. We´ve got management by the balls - and we intend to keep it that way. Even the slightest attempt to encourage isolation and sub-divisions in the pilot group will be dealt with severely. They know it - and thats why it wont happen whether you, norwegian law or anyone else thinks it will. Of course nothing can prevent you from trying - but before you do consider this, We are a very vindictive bunch and K06 is not far off. If you behave you will be well treated - if you don´t we´ll make you suffer - a lot.
See you in Oslo
Kingsnake
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Perspective...
Wiskey,
the view you have is your CHOSEN view. It is not the actual state of the union, believe me. Like it or not, you are now part of a much bigger pilot group. With this privilege also comes obligations and commitment. The up-side, however, far outweighs the down side. You just have to realize this. All rational and logical thinking dictates that the bigger you are the stronger you are. Therefore we as a pilot group, together, will be much stronger than we would be divided. Think about it, the company has wanted us to split up for years, why?? We all know why. The other end of that argument is that the strength we possess today will be brought to bear on the company if they chose unwisely.
Still, I would much prefer to settle this in a relatively peaceful way. That benefits you and me. I have no desire to seek a confrontation. But, you will not be allowed to go your seperate ways, that much is for sure. Trust me, I know.
Once again, try to see what the kombilist has to offer. Alot more than what you have now.
Regards,
Ramrise
PS. Cloudious: you are right. How could I??
the view you have is your CHOSEN view. It is not the actual state of the union, believe me. Like it or not, you are now part of a much bigger pilot group. With this privilege also comes obligations and commitment. The up-side, however, far outweighs the down side. You just have to realize this. All rational and logical thinking dictates that the bigger you are the stronger you are. Therefore we as a pilot group, together, will be much stronger than we would be divided. Think about it, the company has wanted us to split up for years, why?? We all know why. The other end of that argument is that the strength we possess today will be brought to bear on the company if they chose unwisely.
Still, I would much prefer to settle this in a relatively peaceful way. That benefits you and me. I have no desire to seek a confrontation. But, you will not be allowed to go your seperate ways, that much is for sure. Trust me, I know.
Once again, try to see what the kombilist has to offer. Alot more than what you have now.
Regards,
Ramrise
PS. Cloudious: you are right. How could I??
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norway
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Ramrise:
Two things:
1. To a certain degree I agree with you. So if you really believe this why don´t you let the BU guys join on equal terms?? Why don´t you give the LIN and Commuter guys thier rightful seniority so we can create a strong and united pilot mass! How can you expect people to join forces with you after you have screwed them over? This is pure logic, a word you like to use yourself!
Mind experiment Ramrise: You and your wife have two kids and would like more but can´t for medical reasons. You decide to adopt. The two first children will of course be jealouse. Would this be your solution: We won´t give the new one his own bedroom but let him sleep in the closet so the other two stay happy! I hope and think this is not what you would opt to do, cause otherwise lets hope you don´t procreate at all!
2. One can become an elefant in a china store!
Seams like this might already be the case 
All rational and logical thinking dictates that the bigger you are the stronger you are.
1. To a certain degree I agree with you. So if you really believe this why don´t you let the BU guys join on equal terms?? Why don´t you give the LIN and Commuter guys thier rightful seniority so we can create a strong and united pilot mass! How can you expect people to join forces with you after you have screwed them over? This is pure logic, a word you like to use yourself!
Mind experiment Ramrise: You and your wife have two kids and would like more but can´t for medical reasons. You decide to adopt. The two first children will of course be jealouse. Would this be your solution: We won´t give the new one his own bedroom but let him sleep in the closet so the other two stay happy! I hope and think this is not what you would opt to do, cause otherwise lets hope you don´t procreate at all!
2. One can become an elefant in a china store!
If there is any attempt to do it we will close down the company by strike action untill it colapses.
Last edited by Hotel Charlie; 11th Mar 2005 at 11:13.
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HC -
I'm gonna keep this brief as we have been through this so many times over the years.
How did the BU union treat the pilots of "Braathens MalmöAviation" as the unions of "Braathens MalmöAviation" approached BU after the BU takeover?
In the exact same way as you portray the SK behaviour, except for the fact that y'all treated "Br MA"-pilots alot worse by shutting them out from any discussions about a joint seniority list.
Stop whining and accept the fact that it is a dog eat dog world, and when you were in the top position you stepped on the smaller fish in the pond and this time it is a reversed situation.
Take it like a man, stop whimpering and be happy you still have your job. It is on behalf of many unemployed SK pilots!
I'm gonna keep this brief as we have been through this so many times over the years.
How did the BU union treat the pilots of "Braathens MalmöAviation" as the unions of "Braathens MalmöAviation" approached BU after the BU takeover?
In the exact same way as you portray the SK behaviour, except for the fact that y'all treated "Br MA"-pilots alot worse by shutting them out from any discussions about a joint seniority list.
Stop whining and accept the fact that it is a dog eat dog world, and when you were in the top position you stepped on the smaller fish in the pond and this time it is a reversed situation.
Take it like a man, stop whimpering and be happy you still have your job. It is on behalf of many unemployed SK pilots!
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KADS, been through it a hundred times! Not same scenario! No merger and they still fly for Malmoe Aviation to this day! Now if it was the same and the BU-pilots did treat them wrongly it would still not make it right!
Why do you advocate it? We don´t have to have it like that, now do we? Ask the LIN and Commuter guys (pre-97) how united they feel!
Stop whining and accept the fact that it is a dog eat dog world,
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The scenario was similar enough to be able to compare the two!
Of course it would not make it right! My point is: you were not complaining back then, urging your union guys to encorporate 'Braathens MalmöAviation' into BU. Hence stop complaining now and be happy that you are part of such a great company!
(No, I don't work for SK)
Of course it would not make it right! My point is: you were not complaining back then, urging your union guys to encorporate 'Braathens MalmöAviation' into BU. Hence stop complaining now and be happy that you are part of such a great company!
(No, I don't work for SK)
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Kingsnake, thank you for making my point with your own words. Yes, The SK-pilot group is bigger and stronger than the BU, and yes - the administration is jumping every time you tell them to. My point and question is; Is this right? - should the strongest group dictate other groups of employees as well as the administration. I have not concluded in any way, but want a court to decide. Decide on witch R&R to use when making a new company out of to former companies in Norway. I must say I find it somewhat strange that you on one hand assert the correct way, and on the other hand do not accept a court of law to judge on this.... Why ????
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We need power not justice - you are seeing it right now. Laws can be interpreted and court rulings take time. Power is a gun that´s always ready, and we don´t have time. Join the gang, we´ll take care of you, even work out protection from demotions and firings, stay outside and bank on the courts and you´ll loose. Big time. You´re gambling right now. Take care you know when to to fold ´em.
Fly safe
Fly safe
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Hello Barbie
Why don´t you return from lala land and take a look at what happens to pilots at Ryanair who don´t have a union to protect them.
New entry pilots are presented with contracts after paying for their typerating - when they are broke - they then fly for up to 18 months before being paid any wages. A quick calculation will show theese guys being broke for the rest of their lives and reality shows captains buying dinner for co-pilots because they can´t afford a meal.
Explain this system Barbie doll
kingsnake
Why don´t you return from lala land and take a look at what happens to pilots at Ryanair who don´t have a union to protect them.
New entry pilots are presented with contracts after paying for their typerating - when they are broke - they then fly for up to 18 months before being paid any wages. A quick calculation will show theese guys being broke for the rest of their lives and reality shows captains buying dinner for co-pilots because they can´t afford a meal.
Explain this system Barbie doll
kingsnake
(Russian Gynegology)
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At least they are still growing what is not a case with SAS. I would think its better to have operational airline than one held in hostage by unions. I think its too late for you to understand or SAS to survire.
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Kingsnake,
You should also apply now. Sooner you join better off you will be! Leave politics and sinking ships for others and have a fresh start as pilot.
Life is good!
You should also apply now. Sooner you join better off you will be! Leave politics and sinking ships for others and have a fresh start as pilot.
Life is good!
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Perspective...
Hotel Charlie,
This issue is about money and jobs, not children. However, I will play along for a little while.
Perhaps the two siblings are feeling jealous because the adopted child is receiving all the love and attention, and also wants the privileges that come with being a child in this family without having to abide by the house rules. In fact, the parents are favouring the new child and setting few boundaries. And we all know that children need boundaries. The new child wants the same size room, the same toys of the older children, but he has not yet earned these things. Meanwhile the two older siblings, who have already earned these things by living by the rules of the house, are getting pissed off by watching the new child so far getting a free ride.
I can offer an analogy of my own which makes a lot more sense.
You own an old stereo which no longer has any warranty and it doesn’t work too well anymore. You then go to the dealer wanting to buy a new stereo of the same brand. However, the dealer has signed an ‘exclusivity deal’ with a bigger supplier of stereo equipment. He is not allowed to sell other brands. If he does there will be severe sanctions. The new supplier has more advanced equipment with a bigger support network, all in all, a better product. You see the new stereo AND you want this (you don’t say so of course, you like to deal as much as anybody), but you don’t want to pay the price the new stereo commands. Something other people have done and will do. But we both know if you want the new stereo you will have to pay the price. If you chose not to buy the new stereo you are stuck with the old equipment which will continue to get worse and eventually will not work. Meanwhile the new stereo gets better and better, and also more expensive. In other words, the price has never been better.
Regards,
Ramrise
This issue is about money and jobs, not children. However, I will play along for a little while.
Perhaps the two siblings are feeling jealous because the adopted child is receiving all the love and attention, and also wants the privileges that come with being a child in this family without having to abide by the house rules. In fact, the parents are favouring the new child and setting few boundaries. And we all know that children need boundaries. The new child wants the same size room, the same toys of the older children, but he has not yet earned these things. Meanwhile the two older siblings, who have already earned these things by living by the rules of the house, are getting pissed off by watching the new child so far getting a free ride.
I can offer an analogy of my own which makes a lot more sense.
You own an old stereo which no longer has any warranty and it doesn’t work too well anymore. You then go to the dealer wanting to buy a new stereo of the same brand. However, the dealer has signed an ‘exclusivity deal’ with a bigger supplier of stereo equipment. He is not allowed to sell other brands. If he does there will be severe sanctions. The new supplier has more advanced equipment with a bigger support network, all in all, a better product. You see the new stereo AND you want this (you don’t say so of course, you like to deal as much as anybody), but you don’t want to pay the price the new stereo commands. Something other people have done and will do. But we both know if you want the new stereo you will have to pay the price. If you chose not to buy the new stereo you are stuck with the old equipment which will continue to get worse and eventually will not work. Meanwhile the new stereo gets better and better, and also more expensive. In other words, the price has never been better.
Regards,
Ramrise
Last edited by Ramrise; 13th Mar 2005 at 08:05.
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Margarita!
You sound real cute! Thanks but no thanks.
SAS A340 for B737 at Ryanair ?
SAS longhaul is profitable and about to expand.
With your career priorities I´d love to hear what you are flying Margarita.
Kingsnake
PS Just got a call from Emirates - think I´ll pass
You sound real cute! Thanks but no thanks.
SAS A340 for B737 at Ryanair ?
SAS longhaul is profitable and about to expand.
With your career priorities I´d love to hear what you are flying Margarita.
Kingsnake
PS Just got a call from Emirates - think I´ll pass
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nice comeback...NOT!!
Hotel Charlie,
A well thought out and very substantive reply.
We would rather do this with you, really, we would. However, if you chose to go your own way that is your chosen path then. Then live with it.
Regards,
Ramrise
A well thought out and very substantive reply.
We would rather do this with you, really, we would. However, if you chose to go your own way that is your chosen path then. Then live with it.
Regards,
Ramrise