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-   -   Red Arrows Replacement............ (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/665386-red-arrows-replacement.html)

gsa 24th April 2025 19:49


Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 11873014)
Surely, in terms of inspiring young people to join the RAF, even just one, doing spectacular things, regularly, across the Country would be enough to generate a "I want to do that"?

And it doesn’t need to be shiny and fast, tbh what I personally thought was the best display I saw at Riat last year was the Italian Spartan.

POBJOY 25th April 2025 15:45

Of course what is needed are some REAL machines that Cadets can actually get to fly and go solo in.
Oh I forgot we used to do that not so long ago before the 'hands on experience' was replaced by sitting in a plastic bath tub looking at a screen.
Nothing to stop us going back to something that worked assuming those in charge actually knew what they were doing. (may be a problem there)
We need the AIR back into Cadets, and a new fleet of MK3's with the 60 mins to solo provision.
I would accept changing the 'wellies' for a more suitable footwear, and we could up grade the NAAFI pies to make then into a combi adaptation of a Cornish Pasty with meat and potato at one end and jam at the other. There we are all sorted, and could be another World first for the Cadets. An upgrade to winching could be reusable
Jetex packs to bring us up to date. What a combination basic training to spaceflight in one economic system.

RetiredBA/BY 25th April 2025 16:24

……and the MACAWs at Manby, 4 JP 4s

chevvron 29th April 2025 20:03


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11873516)
Of course what is needed are some REAL machines that Cadets can actually get to fly and go solo in.

Just saw a programme on Ch 5 about Longleat; it showed a display by a pair of Grob 109b's previously known as 'Vigilants' in the Air Cadets but literally 'given away' or destroyed.

ninja-lewis 29th April 2025 23:19


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11875635)
Just saw a programme on Ch 5 about Longleat; it showed a display by a pair of Grob 109b's previously known as 'Vigilants' in the Air Cadets but literally 'given away' or destroyed.

The display pair featured on the show weren't ex-Vigilants. They were imported from the French and Swiss registers.

chevvron 30th April 2025 10:16


Originally Posted by ninja-lewis (Post 11875711)
The display pair featured on the show weren't ex-Vigilants. They were imported from the French and Swiss registers.

So what; they were still G109b's and they did quite a good display from what I saw, now add a couple more aircraft or even more......

pax britanica 30th April 2025 10:47

While the skill and training factors can be replicated in grobs and the like the general public want noise and speed , and that the peoblem with replacing the ageing hawks although the French team must be pretty ancient too.

I also wonder how welcome the USAF/USN teams might be in Europe , hopefully the rudeness and disparaging remarks about fellow NATO allies wont impact them displaying over hear.

Can Uk afford the Reds is a reallytricky question, I for one would be very sad if they were closed down but perhaps Government might be swayed by their advertising appeal to youngsters

flyingorthopod 30th April 2025 12:07


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11873516)
Of course what is needed are some REAL machines that Cadets can actually get to fly and go solo in.
Oh I forgot we used to do that not so long ago before the 'hands on experience' was replaced by sitting in a plastic bath tub looking at a screen.
Nothing to stop us going back to something that worked assuming those in charge actually knew what they were doing. (may be a problem there)
We need the AIR back into Cadets, and a new fleet of MK3's with the 60 mins to solo provision.
I would accept changing the 'wellies' for a more suitable footwear, and we could up grade the NAAFI pies to make then into a combi adaptation of a Cornish Pasty with meat and potato at one end and jam at the other. There we are all sorted, and could be another World first for the Cadets. An upgrade to winching could be reusable
Jetex packs to bring us up to date. What a combination basic training to spaceflight in one economic system.

Bring back the Grasshopper

NutLoose 30th April 2025 21:42

Hawk planned out of service dates.
  • Hawk T1 – 2030
  • Hawk T2 – 2040
full list of types, see

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/raf-...ates-revealed/


POBJOY 30th April 2025 22:05

Putting the BASIC back into basic training
 

Originally Posted by flyingorthopod (Post 11875921)
Bring back the Grasshopper

Grasshopper (Primary trainer) plus a jet pack, the ultimate (one stop shop) for ist solo to spaceman,
Grasshopper may need a windscreen, but what a ride, and affordable to boot.

chevvron 1st May 2025 12:06


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11876153)
Grasshopper (Primary trainer) plus a jet pack, the ultimate (one stop shop) for ist solo to spaceman,
Grasshopper may need a windscreen, but what a ride, and affordable to boot.

Hm Grasshopper.+ jet pack.
Wooden frame with doped fabric lifting surfaces.
Might there not be a risk of it catching fire?
Needs to be constructed with a different type of material and unlikely to pass MAA requirements.

flyingorthopod 1st May 2025 17:07


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11876441)
Hm Grasshopper.+ jet pack.
Wooden frame with doped fabric lifting surfaces.
Might there not be a risk of it catching fire?
Needs to be constructed with a different type of material and unlikely to pass MAA requirements.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....79fed9f38b.png
What could possibly go wrong?

POBJOY 1st May 2025 19:17

modern materials
 

Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11876441)
Hm Grasshopper.+ jet pack.
Wooden frame with doped fabric lifting surfaces.
Might there not be a risk of it catching fire?
Needs to be constructed with a different type of material and unlikely to pass MAA requirements.

Not a problem with tubular metal construction and flame resistant covering. Come along Chev dont be a spoil sport you know it would be a world beater, and lots of fun. Surely you remember when Cadets had fun.

DuckDodgers 2nd May 2025 07:03

In a completely unsurprising change of narrative the latest from Aeralis at their industrialisation event demonstrates the desperation:
  • New position is all MOD has to do is sign, commit to an order and the terrorist sponsoring Qataris will pay all the development costs and MOD can pay back later. Shades of the 2003-2004 period again.
  • Now stating 42 months (from today) to enable a LRIP of 4 aircraft to enable a subsequent 2-year test campaign. Gosh, the BAE playbook and I’m sure it’ll go on rails 🫣
  • Vehemently believe they can win in Japan and can develop a carrier capable version with relative ease (good luck with that).
  • Looking at an all new small form factor engine for the twin-variant as the F124 fan diameter is too large.

Asturias56 2nd May 2025 07:46

" the terrorist sponsoring Qataris "

Shirley you mean "Britain's long standing ally"? (and major investor)

DuckDodgers 2nd May 2025 10:53


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 11876991)
" the terrorist sponsoring Qataris "

Shirley you mean "Britain's long standing ally"? (and major investor)

I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier post. Nasty little former protectorate…….

Arclite01 2nd May 2025 13:47

Why jets at all ?

Why not purchase 15 x Pilatus PC21's ? (some for use and some for storage/replacements)

and a proper support contract including spare parts..................

Arc

DuckDodgers 2nd May 2025 14:12


Originally Posted by Arclite01 (Post 11877174)
Why jets at all ?

Why not purchase 15 x Pilatus PC21's ? (some for use and some for storage/replacements)

and a proper support contract including spare parts..................

Arc

You’ve seen the Roulettes display, right? And im
sure the Patrulla Aguila PC-21 display will be just the same. I’m all for binning them……

Asturias56 2nd May 2025 16:21


Originally Posted by DuckDodgers (Post 11877088)
I refer the honourable gentleman to my earlier post. Nasty little former protectorate…….


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar%...gdom_relations


But beloved by politicians of all parties, the military establishment & UK business it seems................. In March 2013, Prince Charles and his wife the Duchess of Cornwall, arrived in Qatar for a state visit. On 20 September 2019, British Prime Minister Boris Johnson hosted Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani at the Downing Street. Johnson pressed over the fact that the UK’s relation with Qatar is going from “strength to strength”. On 24 May 2022, Sheikh Tamim met with Prime Minister Boris Johnson to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the UK-Qatar bilateral relations in London.

During the state visit of the Amir of Qatar to the United Kingdom in December 2024, the UK and Qatar signed agreements to enhance their defence cooperation. The agreements included expanding collaboration within the joint UK-Qatar Typhoon and Hawk squadrons and knowledge-sharing between the UK Royal Military Police and Qatar’s Amiri Guard Close Protection UnitOn 20 February 2023, the Qatari Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani and the British Foreign Secretary James Cleverly held the first annual Strategic Dialogue in London. On 4 December 2024, the two countries announced a new Climate Technology Partnership during Amir of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, State Visit to the UK where he met King Charles III and Prime Minister Keir Starmer. Qatar confirmed an initial investment of £1 billion.


VM325 2nd May 2025 16:32


Originally Posted by DuckDodgers (Post 11876969)
In a completely unsurprising change of narrative the latest from Aeralis at their industrialisation event demonstrates the desperation:
  • New position is all MOD has to do is sign, commit to an order and the terrorist sponsoring Qataris will pay all the development costs and MOD can pay back later. Shades of the 2003-2004 period again.
  • Now stating 42 months (from today) to enable a LRIP of 4 aircraft to enable a subsequent 2-year test campaign. Gosh, the BAE playbook and I’m sure it’ll go on rails 🫣
  • Vehemently believe they can win in Japan and can develop a carrier capable version with relative ease (good luck with that).
  • Looking at an all new small form factor engine for the twin-variant as the F124 fan diameter is too large.

Just curious.
Why do you hate Aeralis so much...?


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