the RAF fiddles while Rome burns !

NATO in disarray , the markets in chaos, the Ukraine War blasts on ,Israel / Palestine still at loggerheads and the old order being torn apart by the madman Trump - and the big worry for the ever diminishing RAF is the Red Arrows !

cool in a crisis or just ‘ plane ‘stupid ?

To stir up a discussion - I would replace them ,when the Hawks are eventually worn out, with a re-invented Blades team. Much cheaper, stays much closer to the crowd and just as impressive! ( with ex Arrows pilots ) but
probably not enough noise for our image conscious leaders !

if it has to be a jet why not the part British made Typhoon - could not a dozen Typhoons be spared the axe and extended for a few years ??
it would be a VERY impressive ,world beating team and could maybe even be used in a crisis with a few missiles bolted on !

But it is American and if we have learnt one lesson of late, it is to not buy US.

If it was left to the Sun they would have Spitfires , which would till be world beating. But these are difficult times and one does have to ask if the Reds are really affordable now that we have become a second level country in most things . The French are still using Alpha jets aren't they -similar vintage to the Hawk. If they could be integrated with the training demands maybe cutting down the number of events might that financially??

Starkey, Tim Davies (a shareholder), Aeralis and their paymasters Barzan in that terrorist supporting #### hole of Qatar. It all sounds a bit desperate for something that doesn’t even exist! Two-years? Really 🤔 lead time on a F124 motor before Leonardo just order c70 yeah, blows that out the window 😂😂

Bit late for that (F35)

Find it hard to imagine that anyone asking ‘if they are affordable’ is genuine.

Britain is still a huge military power. Not in sheer numbers but in skill and capability. Of course a display team is affordable. It’s literally peanuts compared to service pensions, for example.

So much negativity here!

They could always be replaced with some of these. Flown remotely from a high security base in Lincolnshire.

Blimey, didn't know pilots could be that small!

The RAF should ask DRAKEN for a few of their spare L-159s.

Take a look at the thread Grey Ladies

Of course the Red Arrows should go. We have a war to fight (or at least deter) and they just suck up money and personnel that could be used on other things. So should BBMF too!
The RAF's job is too fly and fight - everything else is ......
The trainer question is easy - order 25 346s tomorrow . Other options are either way overspeced (T-7 and KA-50) and Aeralis even if it was a good idea going to take too long to develop.
The longer we wait the more pain and cost it will take to get T2s to end of service

Why use a trainer at all? Use a current frontline aircraft type and then when needed the elite group form a 'Wing' and off to war they go, all current and upto speed! It'll never catch on! Save money and training!

If we can't afford to support a display team of 12 aircraft (which is literally one squadron without much logistics) how can we afford to fight a war? Yeah, that's right. We don't have the kit or money to fight a war.

So obviously we should not waist effort on fluff then

The T-7 is more SAAB with a Boeing badge, the first 4 were conformed in Sweden before conformity-the US is requiring this more and more for military aircraft- and LRIP in the states. Still with the flight control issues I believe latest projection is 2027 for entry into service. Maybe as mentioned here we need a replacement for the Hawk immediately, we should look at the T-50 but not familiar with that aircraft myself. Or if Aeralis pull their finger out and they are who they claim to be then......
I'm seeing some Hawk suppliers really are taking advantage, one of my contacts has been trying to get an air starter overhauled for a foreign customer. It's taken 2 years and counting, the price and lead time astronomical, and Safran refuse to give approval to do it himself. The MOD use them.

BEagle
 

Sorry for the late reply.

I’m sure you will know by now that I’m a big fan of the Hawk as a training jet and it worked brilliantly for everything the RAF had up to and including Typhoon (certainly in its early days). It’s still doing a good job now.

For the future though the Hawk would need such a redesign in terms of manoeuvrability and sensors (simulated or otherwise) that it would effectively become a new aircraft and it would be just as easy to start from scratch.

Remember that the Hawk IS a dead project so this is a moot point but it could do a good job with a significant avionics upgrade and skip the handling side of things.

The idea of an avionics enhancement has been talked about since the early days of the T2 and I can’t imagine it has progressed any further.

Basically, it’s done a great job, continues to do a good job but, if a replacement is being sought (which CAS says is the case) then there are many better options than a fresh design in terms of cost and timeline.

If money weren’t an object I’d love to see a fresh British design. But from what I’ve seen so far I’m afraid I firmly believe the Aeralis isn’t it, as much as I’d love it be.

BV

It’s a Qatari ponzi scheme and they’ve designed a 21 Century response to ASR 397. Low wing? Jeez, that’s an engineer designing a low risk, low performance platform to address as 3rd Gen problem. Avionics? Hardly from the U.K. they’re all French. Mission system and other capabilities in this area? German. Landing Gear? Canadian. Engine? US/Taiwan and subject to the ITAR, good luck getting one in the vaunted 2-years! And when you default to their latest LinkedIn post you know the game is up and the Qatari terrorist supporting and investing bastards are looking to pull the plug.

DD
 

That’s quite the rant. Did a Middle Eastern gentlemen steal your wife?!

BV

(Just banter, I’m not serious).

😂😂😂😂😂

Did a Middle Eastern gentlemen steal your wife boyfriend, more like..:E