Red Arrows Replacement............
 

Let me make one thing perfectly clear - I have no knowledge of matters military. However, this link has just been sent to me. Is this a wind-up?
Iconic RAF Red Arrows jets in danger of being replaced by Russian planes loved by Putin in move slammed as 'outrageous' | The Sun

Typical of any newspaper called the Sun. Just a teeny-tiny shred of truth and the rest is BS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alenia...i_M-346_Master

I have always though that some ex US Navy T45 Goshawks could be OK.

Or some ex RSAF mk65, 65/A's, now that 88 Display Sqn are converting to mk165's ?

Given that the HS1182 was selected in 1971, contracts were place in 1972, it first flew in 1974 and entered RAF service in 1976 as the Hawk T Mk 1, unless 't Bungling Baron Waste o'Space has lost all the plans it shouldn't take more than 5 years to design and deliver a Hawk T Mk 3?

Government funding and a prompt decision would be vital, of course!

Ex-USN Goshawks would doubtless face ITAR restrictions and Trumptarrifs and surely would NOT be a wise procurement decision.

With Brough long closed after the last Hawk delivery, where would they build them...?

BEagle et al
 

I’m a big fan of the Hawk but even I don’t believe we need a simple Hawk T3 (moot point because it cannot and will not happen). We need a new design. Either buy one that is already in production or design a totally new one. And that new design needs to be something better than the Aeralis jet.

BV

And has been pointed out elsewhere, the timeline is such that whatever is going to be bought pretty much has to be already flying a test and development programme at the very least, which is not Aeralis, so which leaves just 3 options, and only one of them is built in Europe...which likely leaves just the one realistic option?

Its possible that France might go down the Aeralis type modular route given the link with Aeralis and Babcock France, signed last year, as their timeline for Alpha Jet replacement is a further 10 years later around 2040-ish...??

Bob Viking, where there's a will, there's a way surely?

Why do you think that an updated Hawk wouldn't make a good advanced training aeroplane?

The choice of RAF trainer appears to be determined primarily by cost. The JP was replaced by the Tucano, which was in turn replaced by the Prefect. Part of the Hawk course has now been replaced by the Texan. So despite the fact that the performance of the Typhoon is somewhat better than many of its predecessors the performance of the trainers we are using that lead up to it are a step backwards in many ways, I doubt the Prefect or indeed the Texan will do 300Kt low level nav They are however better equipped with more modern electronics.

We certainly need an advanced trainer with a modern glass cockpit, were they available then a Hawk with such a fit would be adequate. Sadly we will need it before it coud be re-imagined and our current Hawk engines are not covering themselves in glory!

The US has I believe updated their T38s as a stop gap measure. I wonder if there are any Hawks kicking around worldwide with enough fatigue left that could receive a similar treatment to tide us over.

Should have kept Dunsfold open.

Isn't the whole point in a national display team that they represent the country, it's air force and the personification of perfection. Something for it's people to be proud of, future pilots to look up to and so on?
If we cannot give a British display team a British Aircraft then what's the point? Disband and have done with it.

Strongly disagree there. I don’t think most people know or care what aircraft the Arrows fly and similarly most people (at least the casual crowd that go to public displays, not air shows) would also assume they’re flying some kind of modern fighter jet. If you were to widely publicise that they’re flying some relatively old low performance trainer that would take the shine off.

It’s about waving the flag. Yes, a British airframe would be nice but it’s the show that counts.

On the other hand, if someone were to produce a short run of lightnings, that would of course be different!

That didn't work for 'The Firebirds' 60 years ago and would be hardly likely to work today.

here is the answer - now just reframe the question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing–Saab_T-7_Red_Hawk

Given the current need to show some love to the US and it is a saab tie in with an established BAE relationship

so it is either that

or

if we want to be independent then it is probably the T-50


given we have no money - it seems a twin engined trainer no matter where it is made i can see the Ferrari Yak being on the cards any time soon

I know, I know, they don’t handle well for displays. They are nice though.

I can hear the commentator now.
"And here are the Red Arrows. Sponsored this year by the Dubai Tourist Board and led by Francois Michelin (on loan from the French Airforce) and flying their new Fokkers (on loan from the German air force). The six aircraft (due to cutbacks) trailing their RGBT colours as they form into `Peace Heart`."
Of course you won't see them due to safety measures not allowing them to fly over anything any more.

I agree, the T7 fits best, appropriate name actually: Red Hawk. In all likelihood it could be selected by the RAF as its advanced trainer without even considering the Reds.

For now the Red Arrows will probably soldier on with the Hawks. The obvious example of being the Snowbirds.

With all the budget cuts, the Red Barrows might get a promotion. :)

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2d0833d902.jpg

Simply bin the reds and use the savings to increase the front line assets. The whole point was to Showcase British excellence and manufacturing, if they are not being built anymore, then some Johnny Foreign type or someone else’s cast offs do neither of those things.

Or you could… wince… buy new Hawks from India. But then that’s not British excellence and manufacturing, more like British nostalgia.