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-   -   Ukraine War Thread Part 2 (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/652441-ukraine-war-thread-part-2-a.html)

Beamr 19th August 2023 06:56

Close up view of the damage the sea drone caused to the vessel Sig. I've no expertise on ships but seems pretty bad.



Tartiflette Fan 19th August 2023 07:52


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11487243)
https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/08/...oal-this-year/


No !!!!!, and whose fault would that be….. Oh wait, Washingtons!
I firmly believed NATO was a multi national organisation not an extension of Americas power to bend and follow the will of sleepy Joe.

You are being both naive and unrealistic. In recognition of its place as the strongest member -and gretest contributor - the US ALWAYS provides the military commander who has POTUS as his National Command. Its commitment in supplying large numbers of troops/materiel in Europe for eight decades - including periods when UK, France, Canada had eliminated their bases/manpower - has been exemplary , but not without criticism at home. No member is simply going to just pay up their dues without making their thoughts about the actions known: in the case of Ukraine there is no recognised contribution that any country has to make, and some have given very little, whereas the US has once again been the largest contributor, and that to an extent that dramatically exceeds a pure per capita measure.

From my own standpoint I do in fact share your opinions, but have to recognise that I am reacting to personal emotion and with no access to the kind of information that is needed to drive strategic policy influencing more than a billion people.

arf23 19th August 2023 08:11

Ukraine needs the F16s, now. The F16s can take the fight behind the front lines and really tear up the rear and achieve aerial dominance. Without the F16s UKR is forced to slog yard and yard through prepared defences, which sttritionally speaking is the worse way to fight. UKR needs mobility and the ability to jump around and this is what the option the F16s provide. It's almost like watching Warsaw at the end of WW2 where Stalin deliberately delayed sending help just so the Poles and the Germans would wipe each out and he can walk into a city devoid of fighters, Static slogging favours the Russians not the Ukrainians,

Wokkafans 19th August 2023 10:42

Usual caveats:

"The head of the SBU, Gen. Vasily Malyuk, just released a bit of extra information about the Ukrainian VBIED attack targeting the Crimean Bridge last year. In total, 21 tons of RDX high explosive was plastic wrapped in palletized cylinders to avoid detection."





NutLoose 19th August 2023 11:28

Tu 22 Novgorod base has been hit by a UAV


NutLoose 19th August 2023 11:37

Russia pumping in supplies. :suspect:



NutLoose 19th August 2023 12:09

Another Ukrainian theatre hit :(



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Tartiflette Fan 19th August 2023 12:22


Originally Posted by arf23 (Post 11487405)
Ukraine needs the F16s, now. The F16s can take the fight behind the front lines and really tear up the rear and achieve aerial dominance. ,

So tell us how the Ukrainians can eliminate the air-defence measures - something Russia is recognised as being very efficient in - to implement your "cunning plan ". The Ukrainians are hitting the Russians quite badly with man-pads and -please note - keeping fixed-wing assets well away from the front-line, so why would Ukrainian F-16's be immune to the same threats ? Look forward to your detailed reply.

petit plateau 19th August 2023 12:32


Originally Posted by Wokkafans (Post 11487465)
Usual caveats:

"The head of the SBU, Gen. Vasily Malyuk, just released a bit of extra information about the Ukrainian VBIED attack targeting the Crimean Bridge last year. In total, 21 tons of RDX high explosive was plastic wrapped in palletized cylinders to avoid detection."



https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/s...026212654?s=20

That is very convincing re it being a VBIED rather than a USV for last year's attack.

(I was wrong then as I thought the video most plausibly suggested a USV)

NutLoose 19th August 2023 12:44


Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan (Post 11487520)
So tell us how the Ukrainians can eliminate the air-defence measures - something Russia is recognised as being very efficient in - to implement your "cunning plan ". The Ukrainians are hitting the Russians quite badly with man-pads and -please note - keeping fixed-wing assets well away from the front-line, so why would Ukrainian F-16's be immune to the same threats ? Look forward to your detailed reply.

At present Ukraines aviation assets, Mig 29 etc do not have the range of their missiles nor radar capability to match the Russian aircraft, hence they cannot engage without the fear of getting shot down long before they are in range. An F16 will give them at least parity or better, meaning Ukraine can take the fight to the RUAF.

Tartiflette Fan 19th August 2023 13:06


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 11487533)
At present Ukraines aviation assets, Mig 29 etc do not have the range of their missiles nor radar capability to match the Russians aircraft, hence they cannot engage without the fear of getting shot down long before they are in range. An F16 will give them at least parity or better, meaning Ukraine can take the fight to the RUAF.

Russia isn't using aircrasft against close-range ground-targets from what I read: that is down to the Ka-52 which explains their current high loss-rate. Can aircraft be usefully used at long-range against low-flying helicopters ? How would that fit into tactics ? Would they have aircraft continuously on-patrol waiting for opportunistic targets ? Who would be locating the targets and directing the F16's against them ( take into account the low-level ) You say that the UKrianain aircraft do not have the radar range, but friendly nations are flooding the airwaves with radar coverage. I don't know though if than can be directly tramnsmitted to Ukrainian controallers to direct the combat situation.

EDIT: I see I did not adress the question of missile range. From memory the latest Russian missiles have a range netween 125 km /175km ( memory fails me and search has not helped ) and nothing I recall reading has said that there are equivalent US/European missiles.

ORAC 19th August 2023 13:12

"AFU overcame Russian minefields and entered the battle for the liberation of Tokmak", - CBS

A US official told CBS News that Ukrainian forces have overcome Russian minefields north of Tokmak and are now fighting the first line of Russian defenses holding the city.

BANANASBANANAS 19th August 2023 13:14


Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan (Post 11487543)
Russia isn't using aircrasft against close-range ground-targets from what I read: that is down to the Ka-52 which explains their current high loss-rate. Can aircraft be usefully used at long-range against low-flying helicopters ? How would that fit into tactics ? Would they have aircraft continuously on-patrol waiting for opportunistic targets ? Who would be locating the targets and directing the F16's against them ( take into account the low-level )

I have been out of the game for a while now but could the F16 get close enough to the bombers launching cruise missiles to take them out with Air to Air missiles? And if they could, the diplomacty would get interesting. Bombers known to be targetting Ukraine but not yet within Ukraine airspace. I think it is woth looking at if technically doable.

ORAC 19th August 2023 13:15

Update on the Soltsy air base attack…

Mixed reports about the results, but Russians sources are admitting to the loss of aircraft. If they are emitting to the damage of one there are probably more and signicant damage caused.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f8cde9c65b.png
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ORAC 19th August 2023 13:25

"Sweden and Ukraine have declared their intention to jointly manufacture the CV-90 BMP", - Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said.

​​​​​​​The CV90 is popular in northern Europe. The Swedish army has 500 CV90s in several variants. The armies of Switzerland, Norway, The Netherlands, Finland, Estonia and Denmark also operate CV90s.

Tartiflette Fan 19th August 2023 14:00


Originally Posted by BANANASBANANAS (Post 11487547)
I have been out of the game for a while now but could the F16 get close enough to the bombers launching cruise missiles to take them out with Air to Air missiles?

Never in Ukraine airspace. Missiles are being launched mainly over the Black Sea/Russia, so no.AFAIK.

ORAC 19th August 2023 14:28

Poland uncovers plot to disrupt arms shipments to Ukraine.

Russian intelligence services have recruited a number of Ukrainian nationals in an effort to disrupt the flow of Western arms through Poland to Ukraine, the Washington Post reported on Aug. 18.

The Polish authorities believe that the foiled plot posed the most serious Russian threat to a NATO country since the beginning of the full-scale invasion, according to the Washington Post.

ORAC 19th August 2023 14:35


Never in Ukraine airspace. Missiles are being launched mainly over the Black Sea/Russia, so no.AFAIK.

Cruise missiles being dropped by bombers and fired from ships, true.

But the RUAF are using their Su34/35s to launch FAB-500 bombs with crude glide bomb kits fitted near the front line in captured Ukrainian territory.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....604abb96cb.jpg

ORAC 19th August 2023 14:52

Ukraine wants Gripen…..

“Ukraine wants to get the Swedish JAS39 Gripen, therefore our pilots are already doing test trials on them,” president Zelenskyi just said during a press conference.

​​​​​​​Ukrainian 🇺🇦 Pilots have begun test training on Sweden's 🇸🇪 JAS 39 Gripen Fighter Jets, confirms Ukraine’s President Zelensky

Discussions on the potential transfer of Gripen Jets to Ukraine are ongoing.

ORAC 19th August 2023 14:58

Russians reporting a lack of whole blood of all types at Moscow's largest military hospital.

Reason: "The blood losses of [Russian invaders] are staggering after Ukraine started using cluster munitions ".


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....9505fa1ee7.png


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