possibly why Trump wants 1.5tN dollars for defence.

Videohttps://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....12998f92a4.png
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A bit late but I have just read the marvellous news of the successful rescue.

This is an amazing feat of arms. Surely no other nation in the world could have achieved it?
My congratulations USA.

Israel has, reportedly, almost run out of Arrow IRBM interceptor missiles and most are now getting through.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...d-6b7ccebd0000

Tyler Rogoway - Creator/Editor-In-Chief of http://TWZ.com.

USAF Sandy Operations
 

langleybaston
A bit late but I have just read the marvellous news of the successful rescue.
This is an amazing feat of arms. Surely no other nation in the world could have achieved it?
My congratulations USA.
Well said

Sandy Operations of old, good job they still have the A10 the modern verson of the A-1H Skyraider.
If those boys had been RAF or other Nato crew, could they have been rescued????
***

SERE is taught and practised in other nations forces apart from the US.

Given the neglected state of our Services they probably wouldn't have been there in the first place. Army, Royal Navy and RAF personnel will always do their best but you can't make bricks without straw and our wretched Labour government has cut budgets even further as it prefers handing out benefits.to giving these brave folk the equipment they need.

Those MH-6s (reportedly two of them) weren't going to be going anywhere once the C-130s in which they arrived had been blown up.

Let me put you bang straight right here. The 2008 SDR sought to improve the UKs expeditionary capability based on the experiences in that decade. It was demolished by successive Tory led reviews that have put us where we are. In fact to give the Tories some credit we would have been in a worse position had they not reinstated the carriers. ( Debatable point for another thread)
The only Labour led review in the past 18 years, was last year. You are not looking at the results of it.

Back to the thread...

Great news.
BZ to the team who affected the rescue.
Points to the evader for not giving up.


FYI Since the Vietnam SAR “Sandy Ops” have come up.
I highly recommend the book “ My Secret War” by Richard S. Drury a USAF Skyraider pilot.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/....My_Secret_War

True, but is it a realistic proposition, or a fig leaf (like hiding behind a taken down door under your stairs during a nuclear war) to give the illusion that there is some provision, and we won't simply abandon our shot down aircrew.

A Puma/Merlin/Chinook with a couple of accompanying troops who practice CSAR once or twice a year as a tertiary role is not the same as a dedicated, practised and fully supported CSAR unit.

Other nations practice SAR, but not CSAR.

The number of sets, between fighter cover, EW, SF, embedded escort, etc etc is far more than others could afford to commit to rescue just a couple of aircrew. As far as others are concerned they’re not expendable, but they’re also not recoverable except in peace/ceasefire negotiations when combat ceases or pauses.

When you look at the level of loses suffered in this operation, thankfully, but lucky, without lose of life, you can understand why.

But in the end I was right for once in my life. The operation was ongoing as I wrote my comments. To be fair it was exceedingly obvious to anyone with a smidgen of knowledge of the subject. The cancellation you mentioned may have been disinformation designed to deflect the Iranians. Apparently the CIA was quite active in the operation. They CIA are being kept busy.

That does not include any of the so called journalists covering this war, some of whom have the cheek to refer to themselves as war correspondents. They set a very low bar.

Whatever you think of this war the operation was an major success. We can congratulate the people involved. Trump will claim it of course. There's always a downside.

Indeed..The ability to commit that level of force in actual combat ops would be beyond the capability of quite a few countries!

Excellent military effort and "not S&R as we know it, Jim"
Begs the question, of course, as to whether one would prefer having such a capacity, or not being placed in need of it ? :rolleyes:

Salute!

"Both souls onboard!" Most famous radio call we heard in 1972 after we scarfed up the crew of an F-105G Wild Weasel near Thanh Hoa, N.Vn.

So our history book adds another great story about what is possible with motivation, super training, the right equipment andsupport of other units and the leadership above.

The outfit that sent in two smaller transports (427th Special Operations Squadron) was my last A-37 outfit before moving to A-7's. Big wheels keep on tuning....

Trust me, after reading several accounts, tactics were almost the same as I trained and flew in the real world over 50 years ago. But equipment much, much better. And .we still have "the spirit of attack born in a brave heart" to pull it off when things go to hell in a handbasket.

My neighbor two doors down flew those special C-130's until about 3-4 years ago. I'll have more intell from him this week.

Gums sends...

Echoes of the past on this Easter Morning, images of C-130s destroyed in the Iranian deserts - but here, now, the trapped Americans have been rescued, not left blindfolded prisoners to the islamic fanatics for 444 days. And while I appreciate all the logical arguments for wholly defanging a nearly nuclear Iran, I wonder how much of this is motivated by what the President saw of those mass executions of protesting Persians committed by the islamic fanatics in January of this year? Credible reports of 30,000 civilians being slaughtered - what atrocities did THAT entail? How much driven by the USN sailors on their knees in Jan 2016? And for context, here's 590 Madison in NYC, under construction in 1980, with the sign tracking the number of "Days in Captivity" for the American hostages. These posters were on sites all across the city; it was a deep wound to American men that never quite healed. Praying for all our forces on this Easter, and for a quick cessation of hostilities.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....c90d997f46.jpg

For operating on really sandy /unprepared desert strips,consider using the `Antarctic` prep with skis,even if only on the nosewheels,as they are more likely to `bog in`,and a few strips of PSP for the mains before you stop.The tyre pressures would be reduced on the mains anyway.As with ski flying off snow,once you start moving ,keep going,full back stick to keep the nosewheel light,and steer with power..Helpful hints 101 from Justin Time,...next time..Kuwaiti sand is probably same as Iranian..GW1..

POTUS + military News Conference Mon 6 Apr 26 at 1300 US EST
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....faef12df07.png

My son-in-law was a SERE instructor two tours ago - he could give you an informed answer I am sure, if it were not very hush-hush. I think you are badly under selling it and there are more ways of killing a cat than drowning it in cream.

Yep, you can land on sand. Takeoff is a different story. When it takes near full power to taxi, the initial acceleration (if any) will be slow. I was grateful for the gap in the short trees at the other end. That was 4-up in a 172.

It could have been a very different story if the backup 130s got stuck.

Edit: Good thing they had the 295s

I’ll be honest, from all my previous SERE training and short stint in a CAOC, most of the SERE stuff seemed geared towards joint operations and highly likely to be US capability being the CSAR lead.

As a US taxpayer, I don’t care. The successful result is all I care about

Very brave rescue people. Respect to all.

In your opinion, what would a successful result look like?

getting the airman out with no casualties works for me

So it looks like the additional aircraft flown in weren't more C-130s. Logical if both the previous C-130s got bogged down. C-295W not Dash-8 though.

Ties in with post 4847: https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...l#post12064825https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8a19dcbbb9.png
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Pretty much what happened. I hope to never live in an era when costs creep into the decision making process of whether to an attempt a rescue.

In the 24 hrs to 5 April around 15 to 18 ships have passed through the SofH. This marks the highest traffic since early March.
Of note is that a number of these vessels have been carrying Iranian oil meaning that Iran is now exporting more oil in money terms than before the conflict began.

Some of you must remember Desert One from 1980...:ugh:

The RAF doesn't even do SAR any more, and hasn't since 2016.

I find Tousi TV is always on the money👍

As the RAF and NATO crews are not involved in this elective war, (the Bibbi-Donny Hubris Circus...) possibly a moot point.

The RAF, nor NATO would have the spare tin to throw at this activity:

• 1 x F15E
• 1 x F16
• 1 x A10C
• 2 x MH60
• 1 x MH6
• 2 x MC130J

(these being the indicated damaged or destroyed assets on this rescue)

to recover a single service member who would otherwise need to tolerate board and lodging provided by Iran. Iran is not the Taliban, each captured crew member adds to the bargaining power of Iran, but each one harmed while in captivity is adverse to the case Iran appears to be making. The case being made? Iran is not Israel. This case is being made by Israel, much to my frustration.
ROM, about 80+ troops were put in harms way, and fortunately no further lives were lost. Congress could reduce the risk of losses from the "no man left behind" policy by doing their job on kerning the actions of the wrecking ball that is the driver of this glorious excursion.

No chance - Tomcat down. Like the predecessor it will get an academy award for best sound editing.

In all seriousness though, a lot was asked from these men and women and they delivered under difficult circumstances.
It probably deserves a film and a few documentaries.

I would love to be a fly on the wall for the debrief.
From the number of aircraft lost, whether shot down or scuttled, clearly there were some unexpected challenges.
We may never know how close this came to being a failure, and thank goodness it wasn't.

How about concentrating on the positive side of this. I would have been delighted to know that my branch of the armed forces was prepared to go to this extent to pluck me out from big trouble as the US has.
This is part of what being in the military gang is about. Certainly an expensive rescue but this crew's families will be forever grateful.

All that was lost was kit. The military is structured in such a way that every part can be destroyed and replaced. So all that happened was the rescue team collapsed back to the rally point blowing up anything damaged as they went.
Think of it as returning the kit back to the tax payer.
Besides it's all small beer compared to the economic disaster that's about to befall us.

Very well done
 

Seriously good job on the Rescue!

Doubt many other (if any) Military would have been able to pull this off on their own.

I imagine the IRGC will have been all over the place-desperate to get their hands on any US Service personnel.

And yeah-would probably make a good film too!

Not a single military operation is a “sure thing”. Praise to all involved for the careful planing, courage, audacity and selflessness for conducting this rescue operation. “That Others May Live”.

Good perspectives. Thank you.
Ships have been scuttled since the dawn of time, and when you’re burning up to $2B per day, ageing aircraft are small change when faced with the consequences of losing an airman to the enemy.