That's somewhat insulting. Pretty much all NATO members would be perfectly able to do the same and many have done on countless occasions. Not least the Israelis and British special forces have examples in the last 50 years.

on this scale, I doubt it? Yes, Entebbe, what else?

BONKEY, 10/10 for loyalty to brand, 1/10 for reality.

The U.S. is unique in the amount of effort that can be put towards CSAR activity. The cost in equipment and personnel is enormous on all of these types of missions. Israel is good at clandestine activities, and also apparently getting lots of experience at attacking civilian population centres, these are not the skills necessary for what the CSAR crews do. I doubt that any other country would politically support such actions. Once upon a time, there was SAR capability in the UK, air-sea-rescue, etc, but that was long ago. Even within the maritime rescue that the UK has today, it is a civil program, not so much armed.

I’m not fan of Donnie and he’s made a royal mess of it, but time for counterfactual,

iran has every incentive based on its history of dominating the Persian Gulf for millennia to want to return to tha5 position. It’s has been on a near-messianic mission to oppose the US in the region, killed a thousand in Iraq, is viciously opposed to Arab domination backed by US power and is religiously out of step with Sunni Arabs in every way. They have witnessed US power, have successfully opposed it in Iraq in many ways. Lastly, they know the history of North Korea’s nuclear path—slow rolled Western opposition, lots of negotiations, lots of threats but eventually nuclear armed NOK won’t be attacked. Why would the Iranians NOT seek and acquire nuclear weapons? It’s totally in their interests.

Now, a nuclear armed Iran says, “the straits are closed except for who pays and we permit transit passage. They are in same place as today but cannot be militarily opposed. They don’t even have to nuke the US or Gulf states or Israel. Just say UNCLOS doesn’t apply to the Straits of Hormuz, pay us.

That’s the real threat.

Do please find some examples of successful extractions on this scale and with this degree of intrinsic difficulty.
A list will do, assume the Forum is knowledgeable and can join dots.

That would be the loss of a significant percentage of the UK's entire air force.

The UK would never be so cavalier with their assets or forces. Some might consider that a weakness, others, common sense.

Yes, and from the prior administration, we have the vivid example of donating $85 Billion dollars worth of advance weaponry & aviation equipment to the islamic fanatics upon our withdrawal from Bagram AFB. The costs and consequences of that inadvertent donation can't be quantified - would have been much better to have destroyed it all.

I didn’t mean to insult you or my NATO colleagues. I think we may have to agree to disagree.

The US has the right kit in the right numbers to pull this off. With appropriately trained operators (aircrew or otherwise).

Something smaller scale-yeah i’d agree. But something of this scale, in my opinion would need multiple NATO partners to achieve.

How many C130’s can the RAF afford to lose in just one CSAR Op? Slightly tongue in cheek but i hope you see what i mean?

Hardly a question when the RAF no longer operates the C-130..... and A400's might be argued as being unsuitable anyway....?

Maybe some C295W's wouldn't be a bad idea though........ :).but given the MOD's 2 types per fleet policy even that isn't going to happen.

Hi GeeRam. That was actually precisely my point.

Here’s the starter for your list: Op Barras Sierra Leone 2000

Well done to those that did.

Ward Carroll session with former US SF SMSgt Jack Murphy who broke the story of the successful completion of the mission from his contacts hours before it was officially confirmed

A couple you might be interested in,from long ago,and far away,.
Rotorheads,,Page 15, 17 Mar 2025,Thread ;`Underslung loads in emergency`,page2;
#25;#29;#40..

The SF C-295 seen low flying in X videos yesterday managed to recover 2 of the MH-6M that would fit - that's why only 2 of 4 had to be destroyed.
76 aircraft involved - started with 4 x B-1B dropping 96 x GBU-31 to keep heads down!
16 x A-10s on task + another 14 on ground alert.
40 x 1000-lb bombs from B-1Bs used to destroy the stranded aircraft.

The Iranian treatment of the US hostages 46 years ago was not exactly a model of compassion and kindness - and they were civilians.
Getting their military bombed out of existence on a daily basis is not exactly conducive to good treatment of captured enemy.

Moran flight out of Fairford: https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...l#post12064785

Hard to see why you’re attempting to compare UK and US forces. They are very different countries and UK’s forces are intended for defence of the UK and its interests with NATO and other allies. They are not intended for invading other countries. Maybe you’d do better comparing the US with countries having similar foreign policies.

On the flip side:

As much as the Iranian TV/Internet is in places down, I wonder what the local media coverage of the downed F15 was?

One would assume that the hunt for the missing crew member was being mentioned (even by social media of the Iranian troops talking to families etc about their 'mission'..)?

Then that sinking feeling of telling the big knobs that the enemy flew in to get the pilot, big !!!! fight and then flew away.....

I wasn’t comparing. Just replying to Bonkeys post.

That's likely to change quite soon.

Some inaccuracies in the Ward Carroll video from retired USN & US Army guys.

The C-130J line is not closed and any new or in-use C-130J could be turned into replacement HC-130J and/or MC-130J at a maintenance depot given a lot of time & $ but the USAF does have significant numbers of each so probably not necessary.

If indeed the recovered WSO is a full colonel (US O-6), it isn't the 48th FW Commander - that is an O-7 post. The 2 x aircrew rated O-6s in 48th FW are the Deputy Wing CC and the OG CC. It might be the rank colonel was used in the POTUS announcement but actually meant lt col (O-5) which could be the sqn CC or DO.

https://www.lakenheath.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/

I was presuming it was one of the Sqn execs as it is a deployment to operate out of a Gulf FOB and the wing execs were unlikely to deploy with them.

Surely the costs will just be deducted from the rescued WSO's pay. As long as he serves for another few tens of thousands of years, it shouldn't have to cost the taxpayer anything :E

.................... knows the price of everything and the value of nothing ...................

I think the more relevant question might be: What is the benefit to the moral of the troops to know the extent that the higher ups would go to implementing the rescue of a downed airman.

Indeed; speaking as a US taxpayer, there is also a morale boost to the citizenry. After experiencing the immeasurable costs of four years that included US astronauts stranded in space for months; a chinese "weather balloon" allowed to drift unopposed across our country; or the taliban handed the keys to $85B worth of our equipment while killing our soldiers - this bold, direct action to rescue one of ours is a refreshing change and I am grateful for it. Prayers for those serving and for a quick end to the hostilities.

Do you have a source for that?

Granted, the blades could be folded, but isn't the rotor mast height too great to fit in the C-295's hold?

Is this defensive nature you allude to enshrined somewhere such as other nation have chosen to do? Japanese Constitution, article 9 comes to mind, though it seems that is in flux.

You know the answer. I just said that the US and UK have fundamentally different systems of government and defence. Comparisons are futile. I’m sure we are both very happy about that.

You've been pilloried a bit. It's quite amusing. Are you an Accountant? If so you're probably on the wrong forum.

But the loss of several aircraft to recover a mere couple of airmen is considered a good exchange.

Because we in this part of the world we value life over matériel. Note spelling.

so, do you think they were at a real risk of being killed, or being paraded ala Gary Powers style? Certainly no orange suite or Saddam treatment I would say. But, that’s my opinion.

The answer is the opposite of what you’re trying to push. The UK armed forces are structured and equipped to participate in offensive operations, just on a smaller scale than the US.

I would worry more about the treatment by captors who were on the receiving end of what the F15 dropped.

Maybe, I went to Oshkosh 2016. I met the Blackhawk pilot who was captured in Somalia, whose name escapes me. He told us of his experiences. Being Oshkosh you could talk to him directly and I did. I told him how I believed he was a dead man when I saw him on TV. And my relief when he was released. It was quite emotional for me.

I'm not American and no fan of the current regime. I should point out I am a pilot so obviously I favour pilots.

Watching a pilot humiliated is not for me.

Amazing how we search for things to argue about, to no end really.

CW4 Mike Durant was the Super 6-4 pilot, the copilot was CW4 Ray Frank the co-pilot, and crew chiefs SSG Tommy Field and SSG Bill Cleveland. Mike was the only survivor of the impact. Gary Gordon and Randy Shugart were the delta operators that dropped in with Super 6-2 (which was also hit by an RPG shortly afterwards) to secure the wreck and the survivor. Sadly a well deserved MoH to both in a peace keeping operation.

Super 6-1 was commanded by CW3 Cliff "Elvis" Wolcott and CW3 Donovan "Bull" Briley as co-pilot, both killed on the impact. SSG Daniel Busch and SGT Jim Smith were the snipers on board, and survived the crash, defending their own aircraft, Smith wrote the eye witness statement of Daniel Busch's silver star awarded posthumously, Busch succumbing to multiple gunshot wounds received in the defence of the aircraft and the survivors.

CMOHS Randy Shugart
CMOS Gary Gordon
VA narrative Daniel Busch

Nine (9) AAR platforms appear to be just airborne out of Tel Aviv eastbound (10th heading towards UK). That's a lot!

Also Saudi SAAB 2000 AEW&C over Riyahd, plus a NATO E-3 and Turkish TB-2 in SE Turkiye.

Wow!. Must be big receivers, like 52's

Gums guesses...


Mass gaggle, but could azlso be a "flush" to
get off a potential target