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The US has a history since the "excursion" in Korea, (vets call it a "war"...) of recovering downed flight crew. With the greatest respect to the Pedro, Dustoffs and Sandy operators, the risk-reward on conducting such operations makes sense from a morale point of view when successful, but to force capability it seems to be less clear. I wish the teams well in their duties, but the risks placed upon their shoulders is substantial. SAR outside of a contested area is not disputed.
In recent times, the Taliban were frequently behaving in a manner consistent with the rhetoric of the W.H. chief tweeter, turning the calendar back to the Stone Age. ISIS/ISUL similar, however, Iran has its moments where it behaves in a civilised manner, certainly more coherently than the C-I-C of the WH does. Best wishes to the CSAR crews. |
Originally Posted by albatross
(Post 12063831)
The stages of a DJT brilliant plan:
Enthusiasm Disillusionment Stagnation and Failure Angry Accusations Search for the Guilty Punishment of the uninvolved and innocent. Honours and Laurels for those at the top. Rinse and repeat. Rhetoric Confusion |
How Iran Should End the War
How Iran Should End the War A Deal Tehran Could Take M. Javad ZarifApril 3, 2026 M. JAVAD ZARIF is Associate Professor of Global Studies at the University of Tehran and Founder and President of Possibilities Architects. He previously served as Iran’s Vice President, Foreign Minister, and Permanent Representative in the United Nations in the past 30 years. The views expressed here are his own. Iran did not start its war with the United States and Israel. But more than a month in, the Islamic Republic is clearly winning it. American and Israeli forces have spent weeks incessantly bombing Iranian territory, killing thousands of people and damaging hundreds of buildings, all in hopes of toppling the country’s government. Yet Iran has held the line and successfully defended its interests. It has maintained continuity of leadership even as its top officials have been assassinated, and it has repeatedly hit back at its aggressors even as they strike at its military, civilian, and industrial facilities. The Americans and the Israelis who started the conflict with delusions of forcing capitulation thus find themselves in a quagmire without an exit strategy. The Iranians, by contrast, have pulled off a historic feat of resistance. To some Iranians, this success is reason to continue fighting until the aggressors are adequately punished rather than to search for a negotiated ending. Every night since February 28, large crowds of proud Iranians have gathered across the country to show their defiance by shouting, “No capitulation, no compromise, fight with America.” After all, the United States has proved that it cannot be trusted in talks and that it will not respect Iran’s sovereignty. By this logic, there is no reason to engage with the country now and offer it an off-ramp. Instead, Tehran should press its advantage, continuing to strike U.S. bases and blocking commerce in the Strait of Hormuz until Washington fundamentally alters its regional presence and posture. Yet although continuing to fight the United States and Israel might be psychologically satisfying, it will lead only to the further destruction of civilian lives and infrastructure. These actors, desperate after failing to achieve any of their objectives, are increasingly resorting to targeting vital pharmaceutical, energy, and industrial sites and randomly hitting innocent civilians. The violence is also slowly drawing in more countries, threatening to turn a regional conflagration into a global one. And regrettably, international organizations have been bullied by the United States into staying silent in the face of Washington’s many atrocities, including its massacre of nearly 170 schoolchildren on the first day of the war. |
I’m not familiar with the F15E seat, but has that one in the picture fully functioned? Looks like the seat pack is still in place and what is all the webbing or parachute doing still attached to the seat?
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RBF, the Teheran university professor is delusional. If he thinks that Iran is winning because it's firing rockets at most of its neighbours he is wrong. Eventually they will wonder why they are being attacked and realise that with a couple of exceptions, the Sunni, Shia war has fired up again.
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Iran lowers the age of active troops to 12, I can imagine the psychological effect on US troops on the ground having to kill children.
As US and Israeli strikes pound Iranian military sites, Iran is lowering the enlistment age for security roles to 12 and threating civilians with death for photographing war damage, fueling international outrage. Last week, Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) announced a campaign recruiting children as young as 12 to serve as “Homeland Defending Combatants for Iran,” assisting with patrols, checkpoints, and logistics. With the minimum age for war roles officially lowered to 12, human rights groups are now condemning the move, demanding that Iranian authorities immediately halt the campaign while imposing a complete ban on enlisting children under 18 in all military and paramilitary forces. “There is no excuse for a military recruitment drive that targets children to sign up, much less 12-year-olds,” Bill Van Esveld, associate director for children’s rights at Human Rights Watch, said in a statement. “What this boils down to is that Iranian authorities are apparently willing to risk children’s lives for some extra manpower.” “The officials involved in this reprehensible policy are putting children at risk of serious and irreversible harm and themselves at risk of criminal liability,” Van Esveld continued. “Senior leaders who fail to put a stop to this can make no claim to care for Iran’s children.” For years, Iran has drafted children under 18 into the Basij militia, with Human Rights Watch documenting boys as young as 14 years old killed in combat, revealing a brutal pattern of exploiting children on the battlefield. In the past, widely circulated social media images and videos have repeatedly shown children and teenagers in military-style uniforms cracking down on protests, including during the 2022 Woman, Life, Freedom uprising, which erupted nationwide after Mahsa Amini, a young Kurdish woman, died in a Tehran police station following her arrest for allegedly violating hijab rules. Under international law, Iran’s latest initiative flagrantly violates the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which explicitly prohibits the use of children in military activities, marking a dramatic breach of its global obligations. |
Originally Posted by albatross
(Post 12063831)
The stages of a DJT brilliant plan:
Enthusiasm Disillusionment Stagnation and Failure Angry Accusations Search for the Guilty Punishment of the uninvolved and innocent. Honours and Laurels for those at the top. Rinse and repeat. |
Salute!
ACES seat shown has drogue chute for really high speed ejection, and the main chute is and hard to tell, but survival kit seems not there either. So the user looks to have survived the bail and is evading. See: https://www.ejectionsite.com/aces5.html BTW, only flew two hot combat SARS as a Sandy, but sat alert for many. Guns sends.. |
Originally Posted by gums
(Post 12063924)
Salute!
ACES seat shown has drogue chute for really high speed ejection, and the main chute is and hard to tell, but survival kit seems not there either. So the user looks to have survived the bail and is evading. BTW, only flew two hot combat SARS as a Sandy, but sat alert for many. Guns sends.. https://www.rtx.com/collinsaerospace...-ejection-seat |
Originally Posted by Timelord
(Post 12063917)
I’m not familiar with the F15E seat, but has that one in the picture fully functioned? Looks like the seat pack is still in place and what is all the webbing or parachute doing still attached to the seat?
If it was a MB seat I'd agree that the PSP still looks to be in place but I don't know if the Aces seat have a seat pack. Of course, there's always the possibility its just failed to get pulled out of the seat pan for some reason. |
Salute!
Seems bailout was fairly close to coast, and not in the middle of a village. So could recovery for one crew seems very likely. Gums... |
Nutloose, ref post 4739, posted a week ago. https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...l#post12059291
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Would the C-130 escorting the 2 Helo's be a gunship just in case there were any enemy forces in the area of a downed aircrew?
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Originally Posted by Navy_Adversary
(Post 12063946)
Would the C-130 escorting the 2 Helo's be a gunship just in case there were any enemy forces in the area of a downed aircrew?
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How did the Iranians shoot down the F15? I thought their military had been obliterated?
Thoughts for the crew. Sadly I fear one of many that may go down over Iran. |
Originally Posted by DogTailRed2
(Post 12063962)
How did the Iranians shoot down the F15? I thought their military had been obliterated?
Thoughts for the crew. Sadly I fear one of many that may go down over Iran. I do feel for the service personnel involved. I enjoyed serving alongside many US service personnel, who I have great respect for (and still do), including serving in Afghanistan (Trump seems to have forgotten NATO article 5….) |
One crew rescued.
There are reports that one of Blackhawks has also been shotdown. |
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Back in Mission Accomplished Iraq
Iraqi leaders face balancing act as Iran conflict exposes deep rifts
Hours after the killing of Iran’s supreme leader Ali Khamenei at the start of the war, factions from the Islamic Resistance in Iraq, an umbrella body of Iran-backed armed groups, vowed to drag the US into a long war of attrition that would “leave no American presence in the region generally, especially in Iraq”. The group has claimed responsibility for scores of drone and missile attacks on targets in Iraq and neighbouring countries, such the US base in Erbil and the city’s international airport, Camp Victoria near Baghdad international airport, and compounds of US oil companies in Basra and northern Iraq, forcing the country to suspend production in big oilfields.
Spoiler
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Originally Posted by Navy_Adversary
(Post 12063946)
Would the C-130 escorting the 2 Helo's be a gunship just in case there were any enemy forces in the area of a downed aircrew?
The USAF uses A-10Cs to provide suppressing fire for CSAR missions like the A-1 Skyraider did for CSAR during the Vietnam era - and A-1OCs have been spotted over the CSAR mission today. https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-She...ombat-king-ii/ https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-She...j-commando-ii/ |
Salute!
Typical PR photo of 130 refueling choppers. In actual practice they refuel well clear of the pickup coordinates, sometimes before, but mostly after pickup attempt depending on how close to freindlies. I escorted a burning Jolly away from an attempted pickup and on one engine he was barely able to fly fast enough for the 130 to refuel him after fire subdued. 130 had flaps down and very high aoa, but got him enuf jp-4 to reach NKP. Survivor captured and I conversed with him years afterward( Acosta - Kansas 01B)....I was Sandy 3 with the backup Jolly, had to scold second Jolly about rushing in. Could not afford two choppers down so we all got together when first Jolly egressed a few miles and lived happily ever afterward. Gums... |
Originally Posted by langleybaston
(Post 12063977)
Article 5? We and others stood by USA after 9/11 from day One. . The alliance deemed the attacks on the US as an attack against all members, triggering collective defense measures, including operational military support and intelligence sharing, which ultimately supported operations against Al-Qaeda. [Google].
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Not verified.
BREAKING NEWS: A Black Hawk helicopter, which was conducting a search flight to rescue the pilots of a U.S. aircraft shot down by Iran, was also shot down. If this continues, the U.S. fleet of the coalition will be left without aircraft or helicopters. - Iranian media |
Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 12063990)
Footage apparently of the downed rescue Blackhawk.
https://x.com/ChinaNow24/status/2040109575760945495 |
Too smal for blackhawk..
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Interesting….
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjd8275jrrko French owned ship passes (safely it seems!) through the Strait of Hormuz. Nothing to say it was in reverse gear either. |
A10 down near the Strait of Hormuz with the pilot safely recovered, according to the NYT.
"According to the Times, the A-10 Warthog went down near the Strait of Hormuz at around the same time that an F-15E was shot down over Iran." https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d1106e6fa9.jpg |
2 HH-60G Pavehawks hit on the F-15 rescue attempt.
. |
Originally Posted by SINGAPURCANAC
(Post 12063993)
Too smal for blackhawk..
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Originally Posted by Professor Plum
(Post 12063996)
French owned ship passes (safely it seems!) through the Strait of Hormuz. Nothing to say it was in reverse gear either. |
Video
Iranian outlets have published this video saying it shows the moment the US’s A10 was hit. State TV had said that "an American A10 aircraft was shot by the defence systems of the Army Air Defence Force and crashed in the Persian Gulf in southern Iran", citing the Iranian Army. If you see this video circulating online and being described as showing the A-10 being shot down, please note that the aircraft depicted is not an A-10, but an MQ-9. |
Starting to take out the Iranian TV and radio networks. The internet is out already.[QUOTE]https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/2040172369935810987?s=20[/QUOTE]
US/Israeli forces bombed Iranian radio and television broadcast infrastructure on Kolakchal mountain in Tehran tonight. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f0a5c5faa5.png |
Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 12064059)
Gee, I wonder if there was a connection...
Possibly a smart move from Iran. Given that Keir Starmer has in recent days said he seeks closer ties with Europe (rather than the US-which is repeatedly proving to be a fickle ally), and he has a background as a Human Rights Lawyer, all he needs to do is follow suit. British flagged vessels can then sail unhindered. This would need Britain to stop allowing US “defensive strikes” from taking place from the UK. Small price to pay-if at all from a UK perspective. Iran can then negotiate with Europe |
Salute!
Going on record from seeing all the ignorant new folks' coverage of Mudhen loss...we prolly have the WSO and the front seater didn't get out or ejected well after his gib. Had a classmate that swore he would never be taken alive because he knew too much of value to the enemy. His back seater punched and was recovered, but my friend was officially declared KIA awhile later and I cannot be sure they recovered any remains. Of course, I had another classmate go missing in '71 and discovered about 3 or 4 years ago. Buried at a national cemetery. Gums suggests... |
Originally Posted by Geriaviator
(Post 12063923)
Could I suggest that stage 2 should be boredom if the brilliant plan has not worked in 48 hours?
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From New York Times:
U.S. forces were searching on Friday for an American airman who bailed out of a fighter jet over Iran during the first shoot-down of a U.S. warplane by Tehran in five weeks of war, officials said. A second crew member was rescued.Iran’s military was also searching for the missing American from the destroyed plane, an F-15E Strike Eagle, according to three Iranian officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss military operations. The officials said the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps had closed off an area in southwestern Kohgiluyeh and Boyer-Ahmad Province, where they believed the flier went down. |
Chinook destroyed on ground in Kuwait by Iranian drone:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....bfea8e566.jpeg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7c81e42be1.png Also a F-16 reported shot down to join the F-15E and A-10C losses. |
In the broadcast media news, "SERE"
As I write this, news reports are heavily emphasizing the search and hoped-for rescue of the second aircrew member of the downed F-15E aircraft.
A few posts previous to this, Gums wrote of his experience in similar situations. Together with the media focus of the moment, I've been reminded of an item I read recently with some details about Jane Fonda's visit to North Vietnam which I had not previously known about. What that article brought to my attention (and yes, I am taking its assertions at face value, as I have no reason to find them exaggerated or falsified, but I also claim no particular expertise on the efforts by which she became known as "Hanoi Jane") was that the captors cleaned several American POWs up and presented them to Ms. Fonda as proof of the captors' good treatment. Several (according to the article) surreptitiously slipped their visitor small strips of paper, with notes intended to tell officials back home about their mistreatment, assuming Fonda would take their notes home and deliver them accordingly. Instead, .... Instead, according to the article, Ms. Fonda delivered the notes to the captors. Several POWs were severely beaten, and (if I recall the article correctly) at least one died as a result of injuries so sustained. In no way whatsoever does this post criticize or object to the media focus at present on the search and rescue effort. Rather, consider that during the air war over North Vietnam, was there ever such media focus over the losses of aircraft and aircrew? Granted, the media landscape during that war was vastly different. Still, Marshall McLuhan's writings stalk the progress, and regression, of global events even today. Still, the Medium is the Massage. But what would be a correct and valid designation - the phenomenon of intense focus on the downing of one aircraft and the results of CSAR efforts for two aircrew compared to the merely occasional coverage in the Walter Cronkite era - is it McLuhan 3.0? or some further iteration? The aviation aspects of this war thus far are instructive on so many levels. "U.S. aircraft overwhelm[ed] Russian and Chinese equipment." (op-ed, WSJ, April 3, 2026 'Defeatism on the Left, Pollyannas on the Right', by Elliot Kaufman). The cited op-ed presents good fact-based assessment of the missile capacities of the Iranis - and this makes it fair game, in my view, for the aviation focus of this thread. If nothing else, IAMD - Integrated Air and Missile Defense - supports citing the op-ed here; after all, drones also operate through the airspace, or at least the air littorals. (The op-ed has much to commend it. Among other things, it clearly articulates that the strategic outcome is far from determined - but without making the argument based on unwillingness or inability of, uh, certain national government leaders. Implicit in the op-ed is an observation that despite the strengths, weaknesses or enigmas present in any such leaders, there are aspects of the U.S. presidency which are constant, and do not yield, or at least do not yield in any material way, to the foibles of a specific occupant of the office. In that context, it additionally notes that "options" for escalation indeed need to be examined closely insofar as risks, potential losses and plausible gains are concerned.) It's too darn bad that for decades, the media-cultural industrial complex has broadcast, filmed and otherwise made and distributed such vast amounts of "content" which rather than laud and inculcate respect for the men and women who put on the uniform and serve, has produced such volumes of derision, disrespect and disregard for their service. Yes, I have watched both Maverick films - back to back - on a flight coming back from Brussels and EUROCONTROL. That sort of content helps, but I already wanted to see the films again, and so don't chalk it up to the altitude over the North Atlantic, back to Chicago. |
Originally Posted by WillowRun 6-3
(Post 12064135)
As I write this, news reports are heavily emphasizing the search and hoped-for rescue of the second aircrew member of the downed F-15E aircraft.
A few posts previous to this, Gums wrote of his experience in similar situations. Together with the media focus of the moment, I've been reminded of an item I read recently with some details about Jane Fonda's visit to North Vietnam which I had not previously known about. What that article brought to my attention (and yes, I am taking its assertions at face value, as I have no reason to find them exaggerated or falsified, but I also claim no particular expertise on the efforts by which she became known as "Hanoi Jane") was that the captors cleaned several American POWs up and presented them to Ms. Fonda as proof of the captors' good treatment. Several (according to the article) surreptitiously slipped their visitor small strips of paper, with notes intended to tell officials back home about their mistreatment, assuming Fonda would bring their notes home and deliver them accordingly. Instead, .... Instead, according to the article, Ms. Fonda delivered the notes to the captors. Several POWs were severely beaten, and (if I recall the article correctly) at least one died as a result of injuries so sustained. |
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