But with Leo the maintenance issue would be a lot smaller as there are 15 European countries currently using those including many ex-Warsow pact countries eg Poland. This means that there are 15 countries with competent service staff, current and retired, to train the Ukrainians and possibly even do it in Ukraine or returning some tanks to Poland for repairs. This also means loads of spares, new and used. It enables even more crew training opportunities as they are not required to go exclusively to UK but 15 different countries.
If Canada wants to chip in it makes 16 countries.

All it requires is releasing the Leopards and make it happen.
However, those decisions are done way above my pay grade.

The cost.

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It is not a conspiracy, it the politics of nation/states. Remember, countries do not have friends, they have interests, and a weak Russia is very much in the West's interests.

Proof - yes, it is there for all to see - I have eyes (and I work for a major US Defence Contractor). We could have supplied tanks at any point, we have not. The same is true of aircraft, drones, helicopters and whole raft of advanced technical equipment, comms gear etc etc. The West have so far not given Unkraine even a small fraction of their capability - why do you think that is?

If you knew you might have to fight a guy tomorrow, would you not prefer that the guy he is fighting today takes him the full 12 rounds and wears him out? I understand the comments about losing Ukrainians etc, but being blinkered to the reality of politics will not help.

The West could supply war winning tools to Ukraine tomorrow, and could have done so for many months yet they have refused. Why do you think this is the case if you don't buy my reasoning?

Russia put itself into this situation. It could have continued to just sell raw materials for hard currency to the West forever being oligarch's paradise.
The West is not interested in invading Russia at all and never was. Don't believe your own propaganda. But the West will help Ukraine to get Russia out.

No I was not as I don't have it any more. I turned it into the reflector dish of the sonic sniffer I am using to try to locate the microchip that was inserted during my COVID vaccination. I have not had any luck finding it so far, but that is because the paedophile lizard race that secretly run the U.S Government have scrambled the output signal from the chip with the chem trails that they keep deploying above my house.

But thanks for the insult - always the weapon of choice for the intellectually beaten.

Oh, and I look forward to your proof that my statement is incorrect.

In the beginning of the active conflict there was a legitimate fear of starting a much wide confrontation with Russia. What is clear now is Russia is no threat, and never was.
What would happen if the US said ,we are sending 1,000 Bradleys as soon as we can ship them and Europe agreed to send 250 Leopards with lots more to come if need be.
At some point the people around Putin are going to realize it is done and a cup of hemlock is required.

#13294 refers: See my: You have proof of such a conspiracy of course?

Agree with you. However that is not happening - the conversations on Bradleys/Tanks etc are for far smaller numbers...just enough to keep Ukraine on the front foot as Russian tactics improve and lessons are learned. The West will keep Ukraine from losing, as I have said, but we didn't want them to win too quickly. I know this.

However, have we now reached the point where we are prepared to finally arm Ukraine and watch them win? I don't know the answer to that, but looking at the types and numbers of vehicles etc being suggested, I suspect not. We want the Russian military ground down to the point that if Putin does stumble out of a window and die of cement poisoning, his successor - who could be even 'worse' - will have nothing left to fight with (apart from Nukes, and who knows if they even work, although some probably do but it's a risky game to fire one to see if it is functional)

This is reality folks and if you want to hurl insults like OMEGAV6 because you have nothing intelligent to say, then crack on if it makes you feel better.

13307 answers your 13294

Of course he does, he was part of the top secret conversation. :rolleyes:

Conspiracy - really.

Putin is the frog & NATO are slowly boiling him, can't do it too quickly or he will jump / press the button.

NATO countries will have many valid reasons for not giving away military resource straightaway. They were bitten only recently when the Taliban inherited vast quantities of NATO military equipment after the Afghanistan defeat.

Also, of any kit donated, some will inevitably end up in enemy hands - to be passed on to the Chinese to reverse engineer.

Speaking of the Chinese....let's keep some kit for them just in case eh?

Also, this stuff is expensive!

These are just a few reasons that come to mind, so I do understand (to a point) the cautious approach shown so far, but the Russian narrative that "NATO is stringing it out deliberately" is pure Russian propoganda - designed to strike fear and doubt into Ukranian hearts, weakening their resistance. Textbook psyops.

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What's interesting is that several of us have independently wondered the same thing - I've also thought it's an unpleasant but beneficial side effect that Ukraine is undertaking the West's hard work in actually doing the fighting while we supply the weapons... and the prolonged nature of the fight is relentlessly grinding down Russian military capability.
Seems to me the question is how long Ukrainian forces can continue to fight at their current rates of attrition?

old addage adjusted
 

variation has a quality of its own. keep them guessing ;)

We have discussed endlessly the possibility of the demise of V.V. Putin, by sickness, bullet, poison or window, but there are two competing figures beginning with P and ending in -in.

No-one IIRC has yet talked fully about the danger of the influence that the other one holds, (the head chef at the Hotel W), almost controlling Putin at present as if he were a puppet, and the possibility that he too might not be absolutely safe from nasty accidents. In fact, the tough Beef Stroganov that he has been stewing up around Bakhmut may not have been quite as soft and juicy as Putin's palate had anticipated.