Russkies are building up forces near the finnish border.
Although not quite sure why they are moving those coastal missile systems there.
Geolocated 50km from Finnish border.
https://www.google.com/maps/@60.7448...7i13312!8i6656

Twitter

The Russians do not want to tangle with the Finns again especially when they are getting their Butts kicked in Ukraine!

The Russians might stick to dealing with this Hornet’s Nest they stuck their head into first.

Apparently the plan is that the leo ones will go to western ukraine where supply lines are shorter and ukrianias can train them. This will allow the soviet / russia armor to goto the east where it will be more suitable from a training and logisitcs view

On another forum we had this same discussion. I suggested there 3 practical options for a ukrainian airforce in the mid term. As you suggest there tranche 1 eurofighters from UK and Swiss, the other options would be some of the 46 FA-18 sitting in hangers in australia, they could be regenerated as there was quite a few flying december of last year, got millions of miles and remote airbases you could train pilots and ground crew and no in the world would know. The other probably way more expensive but better long term is the Kuwaities were apparently looking for buyers for thier super hornets last year.

Dvornikov enters from stage left with the same script.

B@stards 😡

Interesting thread IF the numbers are correct.

If they have indeed used chemical weapons, I thought that was the red flag for the west to intervene?

Re build up near Finland, wasn’t there something about possible Western guarantee’s prior to NATO enrolment? Though he is struggling in Ukraine so a second front would dilute his force’s? Still the threat is at least tying up Russian forces.

I posed that question a few days ago but no response.

Here it is

https://abcnews.go.com/International...-join-83912486

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...manys-approval

"he believed that Ukrainian personnel with certain unspecified existing skill sets could be trained to operate a Leopard 1 in a timeframe measured in days. "You have to be trained a bit more intensively on the Leopard 1. But if the Ukrainians want the tank, a way should be found,"

If Russia has in fact used Chemical weapons against Ukraine Civilians......what should the World's reaction to that be Crime Against Humanity?

Can we just turn a blind eye to it.....just wag some tongues but take no action?

If that is what happens....then what will Putin and his Thugs think they can get away with?

If they used/use Chemical weapons, i say send in the Tomahawks. Like in Syria, plus the french with SCALP

I have been reluctant so far to agree with NATO direct action but Putin will just keep pushing the envelope until NATO really has no choice so I think now is the time to act. NATO must demonstrate strength as well as unity. Locate and totally destroy a column of Russian armour in Ukraine with stand off weapons, then tell Putin there is much more to come if necessary.

Perhaps its his way of keeping NATO out of Ukraine. NATO sees a threat to a member state in the North & deploys forces there. In Put-Puts mind, that's diluting possible forces that could be deployed to Ukraine. The other alternative is that he's gone completely bonkers & just wants WW3 regardless of how he makes it happen. :(

NATO will wring their hands and tell Putin he is ‘really really naughty’, but they will do nothing. The spineless and eviserated NATO leaders have already stated that Putin will not be confronted because he has nukes.
Putin can do whatever he wants - NATO is far too afraid of him to lift a finger, and he knows that.
If he has used chemical weapons to slaughter children, nothing will change. NATO and the West will be judged as the people who simply watched.

All the organisations set up to prevent exactly this happing again - a re-run of Hitler's aggression and expansion - are going to stand by with plenty of platitudes and no action.

Agree with the idea of stand-off weapons to destroy the Russian armour wherever it is in Ukraine.

With all the revelations about how easy it has been for money to travel from Russia to be washed in the rest of the world, one has to wonder how many senior people in every country have somehow been tainted by association or even directly bribed - it might explain some of the reluctance to act directly if Putin has the threat of exposing financial irregularities over their heads.

After all, the majority of politicians are in the game for wealth, power and influence - see our present lot for a prime example.

Ok thanks for this.

The UK have upgraded their outrage from appalling, to abhorrent, in light of the allegations of chemical weapon use.

If this chemical attack is confirmed and if NATO does act (big if), a strike on the unit which launched the attack would be much more proportionate and appropriate IMO. I understand the chemicals were allegedly dispensed from a drone so either strike the unit itself or, if they are operating from an airfield, the base itself.

I keep saying this but if Putin wishes to escalate to pull in NATO, then there's literally nothing stopping him (at least from a military perspective). Why cobble together some half-assed chemical attack when he could easily strike a target in Poland or Romania i.e. a direct provocation? His behaviour to date suggests he's willing to push the envelope to a degree, but appears wary about over-stepping the mark, no doubt aware that NATO could sweep his forces from Ukraine without breaking sweat.

You could argue targeting those nitric acid tanks to release a vapour over the country side is chemical warfare as well

One hope this is correct :) 100 tanks delivered from Poland.



It also appears a nasty accident befell a railbridge in Russia from Belogrod to Ukraine ;)

That should slow up support.


..

If the intelligence is good enough to positively id the launch site/airfield then I agree. But would that be a big enough statement by NATO. I think if we do something it has to be stand off, devastating (but conventional) and quick.

The Ukraine President has been begging for Mig-29's and more capable Air Defense systems from NATO....why should this Chemical Attack by means of a drone not be a perfect justification for that to take place?

In the meanwhile....back at the Ranch....President Biden yesterday issued a new Rule for the ATF to impose that would make "Ghost Guns" illegal.

But.....made no public mention or took no action re the Chemical Attack.

Those who have posted about the lack of effective response to yet another War Crime, this one involving the use of Chemical Weapons, seem to be on target themselves.

I would imagine he would want totally and utterly 100% proof they were used, the trouble is if they were used in Maruipol then getting that proof will be nigh on impossible as it will have dispersed and those effected and the area it was used in may well be in Russian hands by now. I suppose Russian radio chatter confirming it might be enough, they appear to be stupid enough the boast about it.

BTW It appears the UK also sent Martlet missiles to Ukraine ( in secret ) and it has been filmed taking out a Russian UAV

Perhaps this is true or partly true. Yet I tend to believe that the astute ones among them are also painfully aware of the complexity of consequences that could arise with actions we want to see. Leaders, politicians or not, are accountable for the welfare of their people and aware of the awful costs that intervention will have..

That said. Personally I want a coalition of western forces to step in, in spite of Putin’s threats and even past atrocities in Syria. Step in now and bear the cost. They will not diminish with delayed action and are inevitable as Putin will continue if not thwarted.

I agree, If we were to do anything, simply use drones or cruise missiles to stop Russian advances in their tracks, remove their supply back up system and remove their artillery from the equation from within Ukraine borders., the only problem being with the amount of manpads on the Ukrainian side, friendly shoot downs are inevitable unless coordinated well.

Only 3 casualties reported, no deaths in the chemical attack I believe. Was it just a suck it and see raid to gauge the West's reaction?

Who can tell, but just delivering a small amount of weak tear-gas (? ) seems far too tentative for this regime

Following this post I went to our friend Wiki and read up on Kursk. Hundreds of thousands killed. It has stayed in my mind since, as I think it must be occupying some Russian commanders’ minds.

Facing the plains, both sides must have been keeping things in reserve over the past six weeks.

4 battles for Kharkiv, '41 - 43.

I see a lot of posts on twitter saying this piece of Russian kit failed to explode or, this piece of NATO kit was deployed by Ukraine.
Isn't this akin to the BBC gaff telling the Argentinians their bombs weren't exploding?
If the enemy is failing don't tell them. If we have sent secret kit it's secret for a reason.

Do you not think these thoughts will reinforce the notion that " keep pushing in more and more tanks/troops and finally you win " ?

Another explosion heard in Belgorod this afternoon and something under pressure venting to atmosphere.


Edit to add that there is nothing sensitive in the footage.

But of course we haven't sent anything other than humanitarian aid. Just as Russia hasn't sent anything other than a liberating force :oh:

Could it be that it was the spillage of an industrial chemical?
Not sure how Putes would deliver a chemical agent in an area like that. In Syria his puppets would drop it in barrels from a Helicopter.
They aren't going to be that stupid to try and hover a heli over Ukrainian territory.

I hope there are saner voices than on PPrune throughout NATO.
Putes is messing this up plenty well enough that we just need to keep supplying kit.
Yes we could have a victory in 72 hours, however it could all be over 2 hours after that.

If we are to do anything, it has to have plausible deniability.
Or do something outrageous and say - "It wasn't us."

This situation is rather like watching the local `hooligans`tearing up a `high street` near you,beating up old folk,and all we do is give them a few `handbags and sticks to defend themselves...!!!
Personally I`d start by sending a couple of dozen `cruisers North` to take out the RuAF/RuNAF,and associated airfields...It would also stop the `civvy` traffic.Then a `no fly zone` around it.....
NAVIGATION TRAINING ERROR..SORRY....

. . . or just put the word "Special" in front of anything we do

Ukraine secret service says it has arrested top Putin ally

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...fs-2022-04-12/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Medvedchuk

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....68ebf658be.jpg